How many rounds had you fired since giveing a good cleaning? Skeeter's conversion is blowing cases if he doesn't clean it every 200 rounds. Your barrel chamber may be tighter than his. If it gets a little dirty it will not let the bolt return to battery and then you get blown cases. I wonder what the Cheif thinks about that.
Read before firing that converted 17HM2!!!
I just got back from test firing my 10/17hm2. First shot, I had the rifle up to my shoulder, looking threw the scope, I squeezed the trigger and Bam! I got a face and Arm full of powder and brass! (yes I am left handed). I found the empty case and found that the head had split. This was with CCI ammo, and thinking it may have been a bad round I dropped the rifle down from my face and racked off 4 more rounds. The rifle functioned flawlessly, but everyone of the cases had ruptured. Ok so I load another mag with 5 rounds of Hornady and again all 5 cases ruptured. In the past this rifle has worked great shooting 22lr. It is using a WP 17hm2 barrel with the EBCO mach2 charging handle. only other mods are a VQ extractor and a PC Hammer. What do you guys think I should do? is this a Barrel problem? Is there something I can do to the bolt? I seen another thread where there was a problem with a WP kit. Anyway be very careful when test firing a converted hm2. If I hadn't been wearing glasses I would be at the emergency room right now getting my eye worked on.
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fatcat240:
Glad you were not hurt!
This whole conversion of 10/22 to 17HM2 has been very contraversial. There are some here that don't believe the industry when they say that the 17HM2 pressure chacteristics aren't close to 22LR and a whole lot more than bigger springs and a heavy bolt handle are necessary for the conversion to be sucessful. It turns out that any blowback design is a complicated balancing act between the pressures, the mass of the bolt (and associated accessories like the bolt handle), and the force exert by the bolt to cock the hammer. It is a design problem that no one has yet taken seriously enough. While some are having success, they are lucky. The design with the 17HM2 is right on the edge. Get a tight barrel or a light hammer spring and you get your results.
I'd tell whomever you got the stuff from, and ask for a solution. They owe you a refund if they can not get the rifle to work correctly. I'd offer them the gun and let them risk themselves trying to make it work correctly. If no solution is coming, time will eventually solve it but the solution may be a whole new Ruger rifle, not a converted 10/22.
Others who profess to have been successful with these 10/22 conversions to 17HM2 take note: you may be next. There are entirely too many reports like fatcat240's appearing on this site for it to be an isolated problem.
LDBennett
Glad you were not hurt!
This whole conversion of 10/22 to 17HM2 has been very contraversial. There are some here that don't believe the industry when they say that the 17HM2 pressure chacteristics aren't close to 22LR and a whole lot more than bigger springs and a heavy bolt handle are necessary for the conversion to be sucessful. It turns out that any blowback design is a complicated balancing act between the pressures, the mass of the bolt (and associated accessories like the bolt handle), and the force exert by the bolt to cock the hammer. It is a design problem that no one has yet taken seriously enough. While some are having success, they are lucky. The design with the 17HM2 is right on the edge. Get a tight barrel or a light hammer spring and you get your results.
I'd tell whomever you got the stuff from, and ask for a solution. They owe you a refund if they can not get the rifle to work correctly. I'd offer them the gun and let them risk themselves trying to make it work correctly. If no solution is coming, time will eventually solve it but the solution may be a whole new Ruger rifle, not a converted 10/22.
Others who profess to have been successful with these 10/22 conversions to 17HM2 take note: you may be next. There are entirely too many reports like fatcat240's appearing on this site for it to be an isolated problem.
LDBennett
Not enough bolt delay, solve with more recoil or hammer spring tension. Proly need both. Cases don't split in the chamber, only when unsupported
Vincent,
Before putting this rifle back together as a 17hm2 I cleaned everything and a applied a light coat of CLP. I also patch-wormed out the barrel before firing. I had this problem on the very first round I fired. Also I havent changed any other springs than the spring on the new charging handle. 38... Where do I get a stronger hammer and or recoil spring? I have the spring sent with my PC hammer, are those stronger or lighter than the factory springs?
It would be nice if there was a halfway easy way to fix this thing... I bought it for squirrel season which is in full swing right now!
Before putting this rifle back together as a 17hm2 I cleaned everything and a applied a light coat of CLP. I also patch-wormed out the barrel before firing. I had this problem on the very first round I fired. Also I havent changed any other springs than the spring on the new charging handle. 38... Where do I get a stronger hammer and or recoil spring? I have the spring sent with my PC hammer, are those stronger or lighter than the factory springs?
It would be nice if there was a halfway easy way to fix this thing... I bought it for squirrel season which is in full swing right now!
The spring you got with the PC hammer should be the extra power one (you should be able to see a difference comparing to the stock one) but I really think you may have a barrel problem here.fatcat240 said:Vincent,
Before putting this rifle back together as a 17hm2 I cleaned everything and a applied a light coat of CLP. I also patch-wormed out the barrel before firing. I had this problem on the very first round I fired. Also I havent changed any other springs than the spring on the new charging handle. 38... Where do I get a stronger hammer and or recoil spring? I have the spring sent with my PC hammer, are those stronger or lighter than the factory springs?
It would be nice if there was a halfway easy way to fix this thing... I bought it for squirrel season which is in full swing right now!
RWAL,
I'll give the PC spring a try tommorow. hopefully that will clear up the issue
I'll give the PC spring a try tommorow. hopefully that will clear up the issue
yea guys, FWIW,
very interesting, am using the eabco conversion "kit" with the cludgey bolt handle and so far with about 300 rounds, have tried all the ammo, have no problems as described as above. is this kit working for me as issued or are you guys trying to save a few bucks trying diff springs etc. dont know much about this system, but have read about a bunch of probs re; the conversions
very interesting, am using the eabco conversion "kit" with the cludgey bolt handle and so far with about 300 rounds, have tried all the ammo, have no problems as described as above. is this kit working for me as issued or are you guys trying to save a few bucks trying diff springs etc. dont know much about this system, but have read about a bunch of probs re; the conversions
no surprise
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100706
Not a surprise to me...i think the liners are tightfatcat240 said:I just got back from test firing my 10/17hm2. First shot, I had the rifle up to my shoulder, looking threw the scope, I squeezed the trigger and Bam! I got a face and Arm full of powder and brass! (yes I am left handed). I found the empty case and found that the head had split. This was with CCI ammo, and thinking it may have been a bad round I dropped the rifle down from my face and racked off 4 more rounds. The rifle functioned flawlessly, but everyone of the cases had ruptured. Ok so I load another mag with 5 rounds of Hornady and again all 5 cases ruptured. In the past this rifle has worked great shooting 22lr. It is using a WP 17hm2 barrel with the EBCO mach2 charging handle. only other mods are a VQ extractor and a PC Hammer. What do you guys think I should do? is this a Barrel problem? Is there something I can do to the bolt? I seen another thread where there was a problem with a WP kit. Anyway be very careful when test firing a converted hm2. If I hadn't been wearing glasses I would be at the emergency room right now getting my eye worked on.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100706
Careful bfishj, the teeth marks in my rear end are still not healed up from the last time I suggested that. LOLbfishj said:Not a surprise to me...i think the liners are tight
Second WP barrel to have this problem that has been posted here that I know of. I agree with the tight liner theory. I have a conversion (VQ) that I really like - shot it some more yesterday with great results. But, I would send that WP barrel back. I've done some substantial testing along with some of the other folks here, and if you're getting every case blowing out with the supplied spring and heavy handle, I'm not sure any of the common "heavier" springs are going to do much good. IMHO, they just help do a "fine tune". Hey - I'm one of the biggest fans of the HM2 on this board, and I would not shoot your gun.
The price of being in the front of the pack...RWAL said:Careful bfishj, the teeth marks in my rear end are still not healed up from the last time I suggested that. LOL
Seems to be common link on this site and others with the common denominator being a lined barrel. Guess the quality of the chamber could also be a factor, last I heard humans were being used to set up the machines . I've got the Boyds kit and so far functioning has been perfect and my mods mirror yours except for the hammer(VQ) which I can't see being a factor.
. I've got the Boyds kit and so far functioning has been perfect and my mods mirror yours except for the hammer(VQ) which I can't see being a factor.Fatcat:
You of course replaced your original bolt that came in the .22 right? On your Vol. barrel in tiny print is the warning. The .17 requires a heavier bolt that delays the bolt opening and has more mass to take care of the added pressure that your "new" .17 Mach 2 develops.
How do you know if you have the right bolt in or not you ask?
Take your bolt out and turn it over (bottom side of bolt) and see if it has a flat piece of steel (titanium) I believe. No flat slab on the bottom of your bolt then don't shoot .17's until you get the proper bolt. You know first hand the results otherwise.
You of course replaced your original bolt that came in the .22 right? On your Vol. barrel in tiny print is the warning. The .17 requires a heavier bolt that delays the bolt opening and has more mass to take care of the added pressure that your "new" .17 Mach 2 develops.
How do you know if you have the right bolt in or not you ask?
Take your bolt out and turn it over (bottom side of bolt) and see if it has a flat piece of steel (titanium) I believe. No flat slab on the bottom of your bolt then don't shoot .17's until you get the proper bolt. You know first hand the results otherwise.
It is NOT a VQ barrel
Just to refresh the subject, Fatcat has a WP (WhistlePig) barrel. Now if they came with a free VQ bolt ..... Mikeone-holer said:Fatcat:
You of course replaced your original bolt that came in the .22 right? On your Vol. barrel in tiny print is the warning.
fatcat240, mentioned in his post that he is using the WP Barrel and heavier bolt handle and has a VQ extractor installed.
Teaus
Teaus
I beleive that Whistle Pig barrels are the problem. Put the EABCO kit with their barrel no problem. Put the EABCO handle kit with a Green Mountain barrel (96/22) no problem. Put is with WP barrel and all hell breaks loose. Pretty obvious to me it is the WP barrel causing problems and they better get a recall going PRONTO or someone else is gonna own WP after they win a lawsuit WP can't pay. WP HAS A BIG PROBLEM. You couldn't get me to shoot that thing. My ex wife used call me someone too brave for his own good( she saw me in too many hospital beds and saw me get away with even more) and you could not get me to shoot that thing!!! Forget it!!! WP better fix their problem soon. And if internet forums cover this up for fear of losing a sponsor than they have problems here too. Some one is gonna get hurt.
Look, I've been preaching since before the 17M2 was released that there was going to be BIG problems if people tried to do simple conversions and everyone thought I was nuts. The blow back design is a very touchy balancing act. Then ATK came out with their letter warning everyone. GM canceled plans to produce barrels. Another company recalled theirs.
It CAN be done. EABCO and VQ have proven this. Others are not quite right yet and you can add WP to THAT list.
Look, I've been preaching since before the 17M2 was released that there was going to be BIG problems if people tried to do simple conversions and everyone thought I was nuts. The blow back design is a very touchy balancing act. Then ATK came out with their letter warning everyone. GM canceled plans to produce barrels. Another company recalled theirs.
It CAN be done. EABCO and VQ have proven this. Others are not quite right yet and you can add WP to THAT list.
I sent WP an email yesterday, hopefully I'll get an answer back soon. I'm hoping I can just return this kit and get something else, ( I could get a nice bolt 17hm2 for less that this kit). I just dont think I can trust this thing. even if I was to get it working with the heavy PC hammer spring, what happens when that spring starts to wear in, do I get some more exploding rounds? I hope I dont have contacts in that day! I really love the 22 barrel I have from whistle pig, I dont think you can beat their barrels if you want an accurate and light weight setup, but I think they jumped on the 17hm2 bandwagon way to soon...
Liner is the problem
I still haven't seen where anyone got the real skinny from Louis on the liner he is utilizing, is it a Redman 1:9, or did he have them made somewhere, or what? My own suspicions on a tight liner started with Gunters HMR project, where he installed a Redman liner into a MAG barrel, and had this same problem, then it began to show up in "Pig whistles". I believe that there are some tight 1:9 Redman liners out there distributed through Brownell's that are the culprit, maybe even some 1:10's, too.
I am running exceptionally with no weight, just springs, porting, and Moly Fusion. Soon, I will be able to say whether or not the 1:10 lined barrel I make can be made to function this way, or whether the liner is something that gets the best of me, in my blowback action.
The porting, and Moly Fusion, are a big part of my success, the action was scary before those additions. I wouldn't run fully jacketed ammo without Moly Fusion, the benefits are too great, and the stuff is too cheap!
I still haven't seen where anyone got the real skinny from Louis on the liner he is utilizing, is it a Redman 1:9, or did he have them made somewhere, or what? My own suspicions on a tight liner started with Gunters HMR project, where he installed a Redman liner into a MAG barrel, and had this same problem, then it began to show up in "Pig whistles". I believe that there are some tight 1:9 Redman liners out there distributed through Brownell's that are the culprit, maybe even some 1:10's, too.
I am running exceptionally with no weight, just springs, porting, and Moly Fusion. Soon, I will be able to say whether or not the 1:10 lined barrel I make can be made to function this way, or whether the liner is something that gets the best of me, in my blowback action.
The porting, and Moly Fusion, are a big part of my success, the action was scary before those additions. I wouldn't run fully jacketed ammo without Moly Fusion, the benefits are too great, and the stuff is too cheap!
My HMR project isn't dead yet. The barrel is now legally shorter, it has the HM2 handle, and getting ready to add tungsten to the bolt. If that doesn't tame the thing, then that will give me a reason to build a single shot bolt receiver for the barrel...I'd hate to see a good barrel go to waste.
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