rws Rifle match is good in my B14r. My supply of SK Rifle Match(Red) box is starting to dwindle down so its matter of time to search for another supply of decent match ammo. I have the factory stock but thinking of putting a chassis on it. Just never could make up my mind since its shooting great as it is.
Played with Kidd classic rifle at long distance PRS matches and it can't cut it.
Hello,
I had hopes for this kidd at PRS matches but not going to do it. It loves SK red box, half inch groups at 50 and 1.2inch at 100yds. Its great for 100 and in but much past 150 it can't hang with the bolt guys. I know I will here that it can but I have watched it first hand and like i said great for 100 and in and thats it. So its has to go. I love the gun and it a great shooter but it just not as consistent longer ranges. I always wanted one to try and I gave it a fair shake but my bergara b14r outshoots it at any distance. .
Thanks
Jon
I had hopes for this kidd at PRS matches but not going to do it. It loves SK red box, half inch groups at 50 and 1.2inch at 100yds. Its great for 100 and in but much past 150 it can't hang with the bolt guys. I know I will here that it can but I have watched it first hand and like i said great for 100 and in and thats it. So its has to go. I love the gun and it a great shooter but it just not as consistent longer ranges. I always wanted one to try and I gave it a fair shake but my bergara b14r outshoots it at any distance. .
Thanks
Jon
21 - 40 of 65 Posts
If yours can do 1.2" at 100yd I suggest it is not the rifle past that; ie, the rifle as launch platform has been left well behind.
I know its next to impossible to find right now, but Lapua Center X and SKLRM and a tested lot of Eley Club work well in mine.I’m just order some different lots of eley semiauto precision benchrest to try in it. I’ve tried most everything else. The eley flat nose does feed reliably 100%. So we will see how that stuff does. My buddy’s Kidd shoots the federal gold medal match well but I can’t find any to try.
I took mine to the Lapua test center when I got it. He found a lot that would shoot just under ½ inch at 50 and 1.1" at 100 for 10 shot groups. This was with an 18", unfluted, untreated barrel. He also checked the same lot with my fluted, threaded 16" ultra light barrel with a suppressor and to the eye, the results were the same, statistically the 18 was slightly better, but not much.
I bought a brick of SK Long Range Match and it shoots just under 1" on its best 5 round groups just over 1" average.
ELEY Club I lot tested last summer shoots 10 round groups at 1.25-1.5".
I don't know if this is good enough to be competitive at your venue or not. I think it's either an Indian or arrow problem, not the bow. With the ammo situation being what it is, I'd try to find whatever you can high mid tier or better until you find one that will work, then buy all you can afford.
I wouldn't give up on the rifle just yet, good luck with your ammo search and testing.
I’ve got about 3 cases of sk long range that shoot lights out in my bergara but the Kidd likes the sk rifle match better. I tried center x and it wasn’t a fan at 50. I have some eley club I can try some more of. If I have a particular ammo that shot 1/2” or less at 50yards I then try it at 100yds. So I’ve not tested some ammo at 100yds because they shot 3/4” to 1” at 50. Maybe I should
Thanks
Jon
Thanks
Jon
Whidden and creedmoor sports had some red box in stock today I saw. The stock is very good from factory and I’ve debated going back to it and just adding an arca rail to it. I like the feel of a stock better than a chassis.rws Rifle match is good in my B14r. My supply of SK Rifle Match(Red) box is starting to dwindle down so its matter of time to search for another supply of decent match ammo. I have the factory stock but thinking of putting a chassis on it. Just never could make up my mind since its shooting great as it is.
That’s usually due to weather conditions - wind, mirage - which boils down to shooter experience/skill in doping conditions. Some have compared shooting a target .22 RF at 200 yards to shooting a target centerfire at 600+ yards. Not saying this is the OP’s issue, just answering the poster’s question.Wonder why a gun that shoots tight at 50 or 100 yards doesnt at further distances?
Another cause could be minor bullet instability from being slightly cocked in the barrel or from a tiny piece of lead shaved off during feeding, causing a dynamic inbalance not noticeable at shorter distances. I didn’t see where the OP actually specified what his 200 yard targets looked like (flyers, shotgun patterns, keyholes) just the word inconsistent.
My suggestion if you want to use the Kidd is find an ammo that does better.
I am going to ramble like a fool here. Let's roll with your 2 platforms, assuming that you got both rifles shooting extremely close in the accuracy department with equipment and ammo selection. And again, you perceive that the B14R is the better combo.
Over the course of a period of time, if you take both rifles out on every outing, will the Bergara be the winner every single outing? Factor in by the time you switch rifles for tests, the parameters may have changed and therefore not linear.
So if the task is to put 10 shots on a 8" plate at 300 in 90 seconds, in goofy winds, not only variable in speed, but a 30 degree switch in direction happening at a moments notice, you do not have wind flags, or the time to monitor the whole picture. In this scenario, all things equal, the semi auto may have a distinct advantage because of rate of fire, and I don't mean a mag dump, just quicker followups.
But on a calmer day, same stage, knowing you have a semi auto and the capability of dinging the plate rapidly, it may bite you because you failed to watch the plate movement on impacts. Fair amount of mental games here.
I have 2 Kidd's, identical 20" barrels, a Vudoo, and a Rim X that are my blasting rifles. So with ammo selections, at times one may shine quite a bit better than the rest, but mostly they are comparable to each other to 400 yards. Now if I shoot past 400 yards, I use the bolt guns just because of my mindset, that I am going to take a more precise shot with a bolt rifle.
So IME, what I claim in July, may be the exact opposite of my findings in August, failure to account for all the input all the time is how these conclusions are made on my end.
I am going to ramble like a fool here. Let's roll with your 2 platforms, assuming that you got both rifles shooting extremely close in the accuracy department with equipment and ammo selection. And again, you perceive that the B14R is the better combo.
Over the course of a period of time, if you take both rifles out on every outing, will the Bergara be the winner every single outing? Factor in by the time you switch rifles for tests, the parameters may have changed and therefore not linear.
So if the task is to put 10 shots on a 8" plate at 300 in 90 seconds, in goofy winds, not only variable in speed, but a 30 degree switch in direction happening at a moments notice, you do not have wind flags, or the time to monitor the whole picture. In this scenario, all things equal, the semi auto may have a distinct advantage because of rate of fire, and I don't mean a mag dump, just quicker followups.
But on a calmer day, same stage, knowing you have a semi auto and the capability of dinging the plate rapidly, it may bite you because you failed to watch the plate movement on impacts. Fair amount of mental games here.
I have 2 Kidd's, identical 20" barrels, a Vudoo, and a Rim X that are my blasting rifles. So with ammo selections, at times one may shine quite a bit better than the rest, but mostly they are comparable to each other to 400 yards. Now if I shoot past 400 yards, I use the bolt guns just because of my mindset, that I am going to take a more precise shot with a bolt rifle.
So IME, what I claim in July, may be the exact opposite of my findings in August, failure to account for all the input all the time is how these conclusions are made on my end.
I totally agree it could be my experience with this particular rifle. Also, the groups at 200 yds more open like 4 to 5 inch groups with flyers as well. I have went through 20 mags and removed the most inconsistent mags with most flyers. So I am down to about 6 mags that are the least problematic with flyers. Also, if the flyer was consistently the same I would be fine with it. Sometimes it’s the first round or the 4th who knows. This was shot off a bench using bipod and a rear bag. No rushing. I honestly think that sometimes the trigger is too light even though it’s a 2 stage. I tend to lean on the trigger more than I should because of my handgun days with silhouette shooting. I’m open to any suggestions as a shooter I am always wanting to learn and improve. The titan stock it’s in has the Kidd anchor in it so it has 2 action screws.That’s usually due to weather conditions - wind, mirage - which boils down to shooter experience/skill in doping conditions. Some have compared shooting a target .22 RF at 200 yards to shooting a target centerfire at 600+ yards. Not saying this is the OP’s issue, just answering the poster’s question.
Another cause could be minor bullet instability from being slightly cocked in the barrel or from a tiny piece of lead shaved off during feeding, causing a dynamic inbalance not noticeable at shorter distances. I didn’t see where the OP actually specified what his 200 yard targets looked like (flyers, shotgun patterns, keyholes) just the word inconsistent.
Thanks
Jon
I haven’t done the comparison that far. But I will put plates at varying distances out to 225(as far a I can shoot at my house) and shoot off a bench and do it under a 2 minute time. 2 shots each near to far and far to near. To be honest the bergara beats it just by a little bit for hits maybe 2 to 3 more hits compared to the kidd. But you are so right I tend to get faster to fast to be honest with Kidd. I can run under a minute with the Kidd.My suggestion if you want to use the Kidd is find an ammo that does better.
I am going to ramble like a fool here. Let's roll with your 2 platforms, assuming that you got both rifles shooting extremely close in the accuracy department with equipment and ammo selection. And again, you perceive that the B14R is the better combo.
Over the course of a period of time, if you take both rifles out on every outing, will the Bergara be the winner every single outing? Factor in by the time you switch rifles for tests, the parameters may have changed and therefore not linear.
So if the task is to put 10 shots on a 8" plate at 300 in 90 seconds, in goofy winds, not only variable in speed, but a 30 degree switch in direction happening at a moments notice, you do not have wind flags, or the time to monitor the whole picture. In this scenario, all things equal, the semi auto may have a distinct advantage because of rate of fire, and I don't mean a mag dump, just quicker followups.
But on a calmer day, same stage, knowing you have a semi auto and the capability of dinging the plate rapidly, it may bite you because you failed to watch the plate movement on impacts. Fair amount of mental games here.
I have 2 Kidd's, identical 20" barrels, a Vudoo, and a Rim X that are my blasting rifles. So with ammo selections, at times one may shine quite a bit better than the rest, but mostly they are comparable to each other to 400 yards. Now if I shoot past 400 yards, I use the bolt guns just because of my mindset, that I am going to take a more precise shot with a bolt rifle.
So IME, what I claim in July, may be the exact opposite of my findings in August, failure to account for all the input all the time is how these conclusions are made on my end.
I want the Kidd to work out because I love the gun and am honestly a semiauto fan boy. It could be that I perceive the bergara better because I’ve thrown more money and better equipment and time at it. I will continue the search for the ammo. What stock or chassis are you running. My Kidd weighs about 13lbs and the bergara 20.
Thanks
Jon
if you do test ammo for the Kidd, or both, test at a reasonable distance on a nice day. Reason I say this, when I tested ammo for my B14R, I tested at 50 yards and 300. Ely Match, Lapua Midas shot extremely tight at 50, terrible at 300. I fired a reasonable amount before each test. Lot of my ammo selections did the same. Honestly, by group size, SK Standard plus was more impressive downrange than at 50 yards. But, by the time it came it's turn, I was sick of shooting at 50 yards and may have concentrated harder at distance. Center X was lousy in both.I haven’t done the comparison that far. But I will put plates at varying distances out to 225(as far a I can shoot at my house) and shoot off a bench and do it under a 2 minute time. 2 shots each near to far and far to near. To be honest the bergara beats it just by a little bit for hits maybe 2 to 3 more hits compared to the kidd. But you are so right I tend to get faster to fast to be honest with Kidd. I can run under a minute with the Kidd.
I want the Kidd to work out because I love the gun and am honestly a semiauto fan boy. It could be that I perceive the bergara better because I’ve thrown more money and better equipment and time at it. I will continue the search for the ammo. What stock or chassis are you running. My Kidd weighs about 13lbs and the bergara 20.
Thanks
Jon
Also, my B14r shot SV remarkably well to 250 in light winds, over 7mph and no dice. The range I shoot at is wide open, with a 12% slope to 300 yards, on the flats, max ordinate of 22 target ammo to 300 is 5 feet. At my range, at some point when shooting at 300, my bullets are 26 ft in the air, on the edge of a creek bottom subject to another wind pattern, so I have to take this in account.
I live in pretty flat country not many trees at all and my house is on top of a small hill. Wind is a normal thing out here. If I get a day under 10mph I try to shoot. Some days it’s around 5 but it seems I’m always working on those days. Lolif you do test ammo for the Kidd, or both, test at a reasonable distance on a nice day. Reason I say this, when I tested ammo for my B14R, I tested at 50 yards and 300. Ely Match, Lapua Midas shot extremely tight at 50, terrible at 300. I fired a reasonable amount before each test. Lot of my ammo selections did the same. Honestly, by group size, SK Standard plus was more impressive downrange than at 50 yards. But, by the time it came it's turn, I was sick of shooting at 50 yards and may have concentrated harder at distance. Center X was lousy in both.
Also, my B14r shot SV remarkably well to 250 in light winds, over 7mph and no dice. The range I shoot at is wide open, with a 12% slope to 300 yards, on the flats, max ordinate of 22 target ammo to 300 is 5 feet. At my range, at some point when shooting at 300, my bullets are 26 ft in the air, on the edge of a creek bottom subject to another wind pattern, so I have to take this in account.
1/2 inch at 50yds? Not busting nads here, but I have a CZ 452 American with 16" threaded barrel completely stock except for the Brooks [email protected] I'm just around 3/8" with just about ANY standard velocity ammo, with Eley Tenex it's under that...all 5 shot groups. As other have mentioned, I'd try some other ammo before dropping money into another gun, there are other thing that can be done as well
Thanks everyone for the help. I’m going to play with it some more but I am having a vudoo 360 built for me.
Thanks
Jon
Thanks
Jon
Really interesting thread for this newbie. There were a couple of terms I could use some help with:
Thanks in advance. I've learned so much already in my short time on RFC!
What does hold sensitive mean?I know it is more hold sensitive than my bergara
COF = Conduct of Fire? I found lots of acronym meanings (72!) for COF but that was the only one that made sense in this context. Unfortunately the only reference I found to it was an army published pdf which I couldn't access.distance is under a 100 yd for this month COF
Thanks in advance. I've learned so much already in my short time on RFC!
Hold sensitive means how you get into the gun. Some guns like firm pressure into shoulder and a firmer grip on stock others like free recoil better(mostly 22lr). Some type of actions are more influenced by the hold used. Mostly semis. Just have to experiment with it to find out what the rifle likes.
COF is course of fire for the match. It is a breakdown of each stage in a match i.e. target distances, how the stage is setup and how to shoot it.
Thanks
Jon
COF is course of fire for the match. It is a breakdown of each stage in a match i.e. target distances, how the stage is setup and how to shoot it.
Thanks
Jon
Course of Fire per Feb23 NRLReally interesting thread for this newbie. There were a couple of terms I could use some help with:
What does hold sensitive mean?
COF = Conduct of Fire? I found lots of acronym meanings (72!) for COF but that was the only one that made sense in this context. Unfortunately the only reference I found to it was an army published pdf which I couldn't access.
Thanks in advance. I've learned so much already in my short time on RFC!
If you're left handed there is a Vudoo on GB for a great deal! I thought about it but with my age and my Bergara doing just well, it's me behind the rifle that needs more improvement with consistency. 😀Thanks everyone for the help. I’m going to play with it some more but I am having a vudoo 360 built for me.
Thanks
Jon
Funny thing to me is that I seem to shoot all my stuff about the same.......(open sights to open sights, peeps to peeps, scope to scopes). Common denominator is ME (and my two best shooting buddies, Bob and Weave).
That made me laugh so hard but so true. I turned 49 yesterday and your shooting buddies are getting worse it seems at time. I pulled out one of my xps from long ago with bomar sights and looked through them and was how the heck did I do that now it’s just a fuzzy mess lolFunny thing to me is that I seem to shoot all my stuff about the same.......(open sights to open sights, peeps to peeps, scope to scopes). Common denominator is ME (and my two best shooting buddies, Bob and Weave).
Thanks for the laugh
Jon
Im 70 now Jon, and still playing. I dont take myself as seriously anymore and am willing to give up on a bad day or rejoice on a good one 
I take a lot of pleasure in seeing my friends do well too even if I dont.
I take a lot of pleasure in seeing my friends do well too even if I dont.
21 - 40 of 65 Posts
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