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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
The next think I notice is that it doesn't engrave the bullet at all it maybe jumping it. These were tried with Lapua, Eley, SK pistol match and Wolf. didn't have any CCI sv to try. .... jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
I use to shoot a Contender 7 TCU. and it shot so good it was scary. Resting my arm on some old shot bags full of sand, it would put five in 5/8" at 100 yds.with iron sights. Granted I could see and I was still a hard holder. Now that is a distant memory.... LOL but 7 yards.. give me a break..... Jim
 

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Since I learned how to shoot at indoor ranges with limits of 50 feet (16.6 yards), that is my Go-To shooting range for pistols, rimfire and centerfire.
LDBennett
I used to shoot at the Muncie Indoor range which is 50ft and it is definitely not as easy as people think especially one handed using official NRA 50ft pistol targets like we did in the pistol leagues they held there. In the slow fire stages the 10 ring is only a little bigger than a nickel. Back some 27 years ago I won the 22 pistol league there not with a 41 but a Ruger MKII with Clark trigger job.

I have fired some good targets with the 41 back when I could still shoot decently one handed but never used the 41 in any kind of actual match.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Back in the day when beer came only in bottles use to shoot at them but the hard part was they were laying down with the neck facing you. The object was to shoot trough the neck and break the bottom out. It was rather difficult at 25 yds. No red dots or scopes then just irons, I guess accurate guns from the mfg. haven't improved much......Jim
 

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I have owned two different model 41 pistols from the pre-1990 era and now my 2007 flat finished model 41 and I can't tell any difference in accuracy and the way it shoots, the older ones just looked nicer.
 

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Rough barrel cuts

What ammo did you use?

Sounds like S&W is pretty inconsistent lately. I got a new Model 41 ~ 6 months ago, and while it had some minor problems that I fixed, it shoots great and I'm happy with it. It's too bad so many others are getting lemons.
I have three of these 41 pistols. I had to send the first one back 4 times to get it to run reliably. The second one shoots very well, but it took two trips back to get it right. The last two I bought I ordered off the net, and when they came in, the top of the barrel anti-glare serrations looked like they had been put in with a disc grinder.

I got one of them straightened up, but the other has chunks of metal pulled out by tool chatter. The guy I talked to at customer service stated they could not do any better, after it had been sent back twice. It still is rough. I know they can do a good job on cutting them, they just won't. The anti-glare tops of the 617 revolvers I have are cut smooth and precise. I am not a machinist, but they need to change the cutter and the cutter speed in my opinion. Stainless is harder to get a good finish on, I think, instead of steel. I am curious if these new 41 owners could look and see if that cut on top of the barrel, the antiglare strips, are cut precisely and clean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
I have three of these 41 pistols. I had to send the first one back 4 times to get it to run reliably. The second one shoots very well, but it took two trips back to get it right. The last two I bought I ordered off the net, and when they came in, the top of the barrel anti-glare serrations looked like they had been put in with a disc grinder.

I got one of them straightened up, but the other has chunks of metal pulled out by tool chatter. The guy I talked to at customer service stated they could not do any better, after it had been sent back twice. It still is rough. I know they can do a good job on cutting them, they just won't. The anti-glare tops of the 617 revolvers I have are cut smooth and precise. I am not a machinist, but they need to change the cutter and the cutter speed in my opinion. Stainless is harder to get a good finish on, I think, instead of steel. I am curious if these new 41 owners could look and see if that cut on top of the barrel, the antiglare strips, are cut precisely and clean.
If you have lands and grooves that go the length of the barrel it will still shoot. Mine was a piece of garbage, I wish I would have picked up a second barrel. I let a 5.5 go by and a Clark that only had 300 rounds out of it..... big mistake.... they are really turning out some real garbage for a 1400.00 gun...... Jim
 

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If you have lands and grooves that go the length of the barrel it will still shoot. Mine was a piece of garbage, I wish I would have picked up a second barrel. I let a 5.5 go by and a Clark that only had 300 rounds out of it..... big mistake.... they are really turning out some real garbage for a 1400.00 gun...... Jim
I was talking about the exterior top of the barrel. The pistols shoots very , very good. All three of them do.
 

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yes, family is right

Nice 41 family!
One resides with my son now, mama has her fav, I took what was left....family favorite, followed closely with High Standard slant grip pistols, then Buckmark, Ruger, and SW 22 victory all in an equal role.. I am thinking the Keltec P17 pistols will be right up there for the fun factor !! You can't go wrong with a good .22 pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
I was talking about the exterior top of the barrel. The pistols shoots very , very good. All three of them do.
I understand that but feel fortunate that they shoot good, Mine didn't shoot at all nor would it cycle once in 8 shots that went through the target key holing. If it were cosmetic I would happy and jus put a full length mount and a red dot on it.... Jim
 

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There's so many things out of synch with Smith and Wesson developing a new target pistol to replace the Model 41 I don't know where to begin. First off is the market place today. Is there a real need for a new purebred target pistol? Is bullseye shooting increasing, or decreasing? I think you know the answer. I would more likely expect S&W to discontinue the Model 41 in the near future. It's an old design that was developed for a now dying sport. Not only is it an old design, but it is obviously difficult to produce today. Why invest the time and resources in a dead end project?

Okay, lets assume S&W did throw caution to the wind and develop a new .22 cal target pistol. What would the average Joe be willing to pay for said target pistol? What will it be made from, metal and wood or plastic and aluminum? Either way it's a sure bet this new pistol is going to have a price point higher than the current Model 41. How many are going to run out and buy a new unproven design for more than what a current Model 41 costs? S&W has already dabbled in lower cost .22 cal semi-auto pistols and it didn't work out well for them, so I seriously doubt they will attempt a new higher end target pistol.

It was suggested that one buys a Benelli MP90S or MP95 and that's a great idea until you look at reality. Who has them to buy and how much do they cost? Benelli doesn't even list pistols or their US website. More importantly where do you get parts for them and if needed where do you take them for repairs? Just a brief tour on the internet reveals they are hard to come by new or used and can run well over $2500 to $3000 dollars new. I have never even seen one let alone shot one so that option is out for me. It should also be noted that there are areas of our country where a magazine well in front of the trigger is illegal and I am sure that trend will continue. And some complain about the Model 41 costing too much? And by the way, a quick check on a couple websites revealed only 1 used Benelli for sale and a bunch of Model 41's new and used. Prices for used M41's seem to start at $1,000.00 and up. Inflation is clearly hitting everything today.

So here's the bottom line IMHO, for good bad or indifferent Smith and Wesson must look at their QC at least on the Model 41. How we get them to do that is the problem without them taking a knee jerk reaction and deep sixing the Model 41. Once they do that the gun will be gone forever and don't hold your breath waiting for a replacement. Bullseye shooting isn't a market driver and hasn't been for years. BE shooting is more of a curiosity today that a few old die hards partake in. My gut tells me for every Model 41 the Mothership makes they can make 3 or 4 M&P's and send them out the door. And for all you guys that keep saying "buy vintage or buy old" remember that is a finite resource. Guys used to say the same thing about buying M1 Garands. Well one day they woke up and saw there were no more old vintage M1 Garands. The supply had been exhausted no thanks to a seller that allowed people to buy almost unlimited amounts.

Now how do we convince a company like Smith and Wesson that they need to do better with the Model 41 than they currently are, without them throwing in the towel? I for one would still like to know how many Model 41's they sell per year and how many come back for warranty work? That is where the real story is, not just some limited reports on this forum. People will ALWAYS complain about a problem on a dedicated open forum like this, but rarely will they commend a product in the same way.

Rick H.
I for one liked Rick's entire post, anyone can see he put a lot of thought into it. But that "bolded/underlined" wording is the best sentence of Rick's post IMHO. I think one hell of a lot of folks would like to KNOW this information, and certainly would put things in proper context. But I'm guessing we'll never know... Not something that S&W is likely to share, IS it:rolleyes: I'm one of the lucky ones, have two "later" 41's and both run perfectly.
 

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... People will ALWAYS complain about a problem on a dedicated open forum like this, but rarely will they commend a product in the same way. Rick H.
As one of the complainers I feel a responsibility to share positive experiences that come out of initial negative ones. I finally got back my Model 41PC from S&W Warranty. It was its third trip in less than a year with the same FTL and FTE problems. This time there was a third problem that required replacing the trigger bar. I've had two sessions with around 300 rounds without a problem. I clearly need more positive range sessions but there is a chance that my Model 41PC can be more than an expensive door stop.

Like Rick H., I doubt any American firearm manufacturer will invest the R&D needed to develop a dedicated NRA/CMP BE .22 caliber pistol. There simply isn't the market anymore unless it would appeal to the ISSF world, too. So, you want an American made .22 BE pistol you go the semi-custom or custom route, Clark, etc.

The need is not a high end replacement for the Model 41, Ruger or Buckmark but an entry level rimfire reasonably accurate at 50 feet and in the $200-300 range and a willingness of the BE community to remove the barriers to two-handed shooting. I'm on the range 4-5 times a week for the last 18 months. With the exception of the 8 or so guys who gather on Monday night to shoot BE, I can count on my fingers the number of people I've seen shooting with one-hand. The ten million plus new gun owners shoot centerfire with two-hands and increasingly are shooting at 50 feet or so even outdoors on a 25 yard range. You want to expand the BE market? There it is.
 

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A performance center smith and wesson in anything should not have to be returned 3 times to get it right.Performance Center products have become a cornerstone for them. Where is the pride SMITH AND WESSON??
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
I just talked to someone at Clark and they said the parts in the 41's were better than they ever have been... the problem is with the 41 operation being moved but they didn't move the people. Sounds like no QC. at the new home..... Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
As one of the complainers I feel a responsibility to share positive experiences that come out of initial negative ones. I finally got back my Model 41PC from S&W Warranty. It was its third trip in less than a year with the same FTL and FTE problems. This time there was a third problem that required replacing the trigger bar. I've had two sessions with around 300 rounds without a problem. I clearly need more positive range sessions but there is a chance that my Model 41PC can be more than an expensive door stop.

Like Rick H., I doubt any American firearm manufacturer will invest the R&D needed to develop a dedicated NRA/CMP BE .22 caliber pistol. There simply isn't the market anymore unless it would appeal to the ISSF world, too. So, you want an American made .22 BE pistol you go the semi-custom or custom route, Clark, etc.

The need is not a high end replacement for the Model 41, Ruger or Buckmark but an entry level rimfire reasonably accurate at 50 feet and in the $200-300 range and a willingness of the BE community to remove the barriers to two-handed shooting. I'm on the range 4-5 times a week for the last 18 months. With the exception of the 8 or so guys who gather on Monday night to shoot BE, I can count on my fingers the number of people I've seen shooting with one-hand. The ten million plus new gun owners shoot centerfire with two-hands and increasingly are shooting at 50 feet or so even outdoors on a 25 yard range. You want to expand the BE market? There it is.
You should have experienced a Hi- Standard then they shot for years without a malfunction if they were kept reasonable clean, the only alibi's on the line were the old S&W 41's..... Jim
 

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You should have experienced a Hi- Standard then they shot for years without a malfunction if they were kept reasonable clean, the only alibi's on the line were the old S&W 41's..... Jim
Actually, I did... Olympic Citation, Model 103.

I bought it when I was at the Modern Pentathlon Training Center at Ft. Sam Houston, San Antonio in 1963. It has the muzzle break built in and looks like a glob at the end of the barrel. Crazy accurate, soft shooting (.22 shorts) and never malfunctioned. It served me well.

Unfortunately, a riding accident (on a horse named Eight Ball) shortened my Mod Pent career. I sold the gun in the late '70's. Saw one for sale a couple of months ago and was tempted, should have given in.
 

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Just joined this forum and something to add.
A friend recently purchased a PC 41 and out of the box had the Bolt stop locking up.
The gun is useless at this time. It's on it's way to S&W Warranty for service.
A great deal of money to spend and suffer a lack of QC.
I had a problem with a brand new SW22 Victory out of the box. Every round would jam, FTL, FTF and/or Stove Pipe. S&W said to send it in for repair. 7 weeks later it was returned. It was sort of fixed. It still had many FTLs and FTEs.
TandemKross was instrumental in helping resolve my issues.
Just my 2cents....
 
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