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Need help in trying to scope a new Winchester 52 B repro

3293 Views 74 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  budrichard, 
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I have this model 52 for close to 20 years and have never shot it. I now wish to turn it into a 95% target gun, 5%hunting. Looking to shoot everywhere between 25-30 yards and long range & silhouette. Mostly 50 & 100 bench to see how far she will go. Bought a Hawke 6-24x56 30 SF thinking she would go on it but after looking it over it looks like it may not work, but if it does will need a serious cheek rest pad. I know the bolt handle issue is a problem on these but once I started the process I had no idea of just how frustrating
it was going to be. If..... if the scope doesn't work out on this gun it's really no big deal as I wish to get another high end .22 for strictly target and most of them come with the 60% handle. I am looking to mount a tactical variable scope with as much magnification as I can get (26-36) with focus & parallax down to the 25-30 yard range if possible and all the other bells and whistles (return to zero, locking, (lite reticle if option) if possible, great glass) I would say $1000 would be my limit.

The Hawke in the picture has a 30mm tube and front 56mm objective which clears the barrel by about a 1/4" with the burris bases and 8 glued pennies atop... but the bolt handle is VERY close and tough to see if she'll actually clear the bolt to use. SK was going to make the split bases and rings for this gun but when I sent him the pic she stated "won't work, get a different scope". Actually this setup "might" clear as is and I would just have to use a cheek rest pad as she is high but not sure if having like this is a realistic look/approach. (opinions pls) Just for reference the 8 glued pennies are .450 in hight. Owner at SK told me to do the penny trick and let him know as he can determine height by # of pennies. If I did go with SK then I would have to remove the burris bases. If things work out would SK be a good option for bases & rings or just stick with burris and ??
So, I'm not really sure what to do. Since this Hawke has a 30mm tube does that mean I must switch back to a 1" tube as I would assume it would have a smaller ocular lense which is really where the problem arises. Do they make other high magnification scopes with 30mm tubes like above that have a smaller ocular lense ? Granted the 56mm objective on current scope is big but she clears by 1/4 but if I had to downsize that end of the scope to get things to fit I would.

I just don't know who how much of a scope I can put on her to get her to clear the bolt handle and barrel.

If setting this scope up this high (like in pic) works should I go with it or does it look out of place ? It's really just the rubber ring on the ocular end of the scope that is close, not the tube. If it weren't for those rubber turning knobs the scope tube would clear easily and could be dropped down somewhat.

(lastest picture) I JUST MOVED THE SCOPE AS FAR FORWARD AS I THOUGHT THE RINGS WOULD ALLOW AND MAYBE THE BOLT HANDLE WILL CLEAR THE RUBBER KNOBS AND POSSIBLY ALLOW THE SCOPE TO DROP A SMALL BIT. Would anyone happen to know what rings (heigh) might work for the burris bases I have. I would like to get and assemble to see if my problem is not longer a problem.

Does anyone have any specific scopes they feel might better help the above problem. Would love to put a scope on her with the specs like the one I have ..... I just don't know
if it's possible.

I sure hope someone can help me.
Hand Air gun Gesture Trigger Shotgun

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SageRat22 said:
I'll probably just confuse the discussion, but I like a scope to compliment the look of and balance with the rifle. That means gloss scope with a gloss blued rifle, of a size that doesn't overwhelm things and mounted low enough to get some kind of cheek weld on the comb. The 52R is a challenge because of the high bolt lift which as you've shown whacks the ocular end of the scope. My suggestion is to use a good compact scope that has a smaller diameter ocular assembly that builds in some bolt clearance. This is my 52R with a Leupold Compact 3x9 AO EFR mounted with medium Talley rings and bases. Everything clears and I think makes a very useable combination.
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I agree with everything you have said here, and the rifle I had wore the same scope with Leupold rings and bases.
The OP didn't scope his rifle 20+ yrs ago, and other than resale of items, has no access to new high gloss Leupold's. How long has it been since Leupold offered gloss? Better yet, how long has it been since this rifle was produced? Or Kimber's for that matter. Going period correct could be a chore.
The OP is asking too much from one rifle, if he removed 100 yard bench, I assume BR, from his requirements, it would open up a lot of glass selections.
I am somewhat with the OP on concentrating on functionality over aesthetics here.

OP, not bashing you in any form, I just know thousands before me tried to build a hunting-target rifle, I tried myself and found the rifle did little justice to either discipline. Too heavy for hunting, too light and mismatched configuration for target< not BR either, just a LR steel blaster.
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TEDDY BEAR RAT
They are the same. "R" stands for "repro" or some call them "reissue", but they are the Miroku-made 52 sporters from Japan. The earlier Browning marked versions had the "C" -style of stock, but the barreled actions are about the same, with minor differences in barrel contour and with or without the barrel screw. Identical actions except markings.
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SageRat22
I used the Talley rings because they are a close copy of the 2nd generation Kimber rings. I’m a pretty serious Kimber collector and have developed a real like for them.
The 52R is just a nomenclature thing that some of us use to delineate the 52 “reproduction” made by Miroku, instead of the pejorative terms, Jap 52 and repos favored by some.
An off the wall solution for your project might be to have a pair of Unertl style scope blocks put on your gun and then you could use about any flavor of external adjusted target scope you want. You would have tons of clearance. I’m actually thinking about setting up another 52R I have with those blocks so I can mount a Unertl Small Game scope on it, just because I guess.
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You could go with an older Burris Signature (they made this in an R version which focuses closer than the non-R which is about 40 yds) in gloss and solve the aesthetic and distance problem. IF you don't mind a used scope. I buy used optics all the time, doesn't bother me, but I know it does bother some and I get it. The ocular is smaller and you still get lots of magnification and a 1" tube is more period correct. Just my $.02.

Burris Signature 8-32x44mm Rifle Scope ~USA~ Gloss | eBay
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Milo 2.5 said:
I agree with everything you have said here, and the rifle I had wore the same scope with Leupold rings and bases.
The OP didn't scope his rifle 20+ yrs ago, and other than resale of items, has no access to new high gloss Leupold's. How long has it been since Leupold offered gloss? Better yet, how long has it been since this rifle was produced? Or Kimber's for that matter. Going period correct could be a chore.
The OP is asking too much from one rifle, if he removed 100 yard bench, I assume BR, from his requirements, it would open up a lot of glass selections.
I am somewhat with the OP on concentrating on functionality over aesthetics here.

OP, not bashing you in any form, I just know thousands before me tried to build a hunting-target rifle, I tried myself and found the rifle did little justice to either discipline. Too heavy for hunting, too light and mismatched configuration for target< not BR either, just a LR steel blaster.
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Hmmmmmm...... I'm not sure I fully understand the comment "How long has it been since Leupold offered Gloss" ? I didn't check but just assumed getting a gloss set of Leupold rings would be easier than ordering a single scoop vanilla ice cream cone. shocked at "Going period correct could be a chore". Maybe I overstated my "hunting" aspect of this rifle...... as it would be a very very rare occasion. Lastly the comment "asking too much"....... again a puzzling comment. I am trying to get as small a group as humanly possible for what I have...... not putting myself up against true BR heavy barrel/gun competitors. OK...... you guys have been doing this for a lot longer than me so let me toss this question to all...... what do you honestly believe the best groups this sporter / scope can should off benchrest with LOTS of ammo testing, serious trigger work and diligence at 100 yards.
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Davcruz said:
You could go with an older Burris Signature (they made this in an R version which focuses closer than the non-R which is about 40 yds) in gloss and solve the aesthetic and distance problem. IF you don't mind a used scope. I buy used optics all the time, doesn't bother me, but I know it does bother some and I get it. The ocular is smaller and you still get lots of magnification and a 1" tube is more period correct. Just my $.02.

Burris Signature 8-32x44mm Rifle Scope ~USA~ Gloss | eBay
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I took a look at your suggestion. Nice looking scope. If for whatever reason my current Hawke doesn't end up working the Burris looks like it might fit the bill. Anyone know what this scope cost new and if the asking price is fair. With the price of scopes I'm guessing it is but would like to hear other opinions. I thought I read where Burris had a 100% guarantee and was transferable. Is this true ? If so that would sweeten the deal out considerably. Thanks for the tip.
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FritzFulton
Rimfireraptor said:
I took a look at your suggestion. Nice looking scope. If for whatever reason my current Hawke doesn't end up working the Burris looks like it might fit the bill. Anyone know what this scope cost new and if the asking price is fair. With the price of scopes I'm guessing it is but would like to hear other opinions. I thought I read where Burris had a 100% guarantee and was transferable. Is this true ? If so that would sweeten the deal out considerably. Thanks for the tip.
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I had this same scope and it needed repair sent in to Burris, now owned by Beretta, could not be repaired, no parts.
They gave me a $780 credit and I applied it to a Burris Signature HD 5-25X50mm.
This was in 2022, I believe that I bought it at the Fin in 2002 and recalling paying about $550.
It was an excellent scope and considering inflation and the no BS warranty the price is fair.
Given the age of the scope you could contact the seller and offer less, Vortex is offering
certain Diamondback scopes for slightly less than $500 with a no BS warranty and they are good.
I don’t think that this scope will sell quickly at this price.
Fritz
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FritzFulton
FritzFulton said:
I had this same scope and it needed repair sent in to Burris, now owned by Beretta, could not be repaired, no parts.
They gave me a $780 credit and I applied it to a Burris Signature HD 5-25X50mm.
This was in 2022, I believe that I bought it at the Fin in 2002 and recalling paying about $550.
It was an excellent scope and considering inflation and the no BS warranty the price is fair.
Given the age of the scope you could contact the seller and offer less, Vortex is offering
certain Diamondback scopes for slightly less than $500 with a no BS warranty and they are good.
I don’t think that this scope will sell quickly at this price.
Fritz
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After thought, this Burris is over 17 inches long and the Vortex is shorter, the proportions
of the Vortex might be more pleasing to the eye, especially on a sporter.
Fritz
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SageRat22
My experience with the Burris warranty, with one exception, has always been “it’s not repairable but we’ll give you credit towards a newer model.” The exception was a scope that had been assembled with a reticle twisted appx 15 degrees out of square with the adjustment knobs. They told me it was in spec, so I sold it. As a result, Burris isn’t a brand I seek out like I do Leupold, although I have a couple of their scopes but they were screaming deals when I bought them.
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Rimfireraptor said:
Hmmmmmm...... I'm not sure I fully understand the comment "How long has it been since Leupold offered Gloss" ? I didn't check but just assumed getting a gloss set of Leupold rings would be easier than ordering a single scoop vanilla ice cream cone. shocked at "Going period correct could be a chore". Maybe I overstated my "hunting" aspect of this rifle...... as it would be a very very rare occasion. Lastly the comment "asking too much"....... again a puzzling comment. I am trying to get as small a group as humanly possible for what I have...... not putting myself up against true BR heavy barrel/gun competitors. OK...... you guys have been doing this for a lot longer than me so let me toss this question to all...... what do you honestly believe the best groups this sporter / scope can should off benchrest with LOTS of ammo testing, serious trigger work and diligence at 100 yards.
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First off, I quoted another poster, not you. And yes, getting gloss rings is not an issue, and neither is over paying for a used gloss Leupold scope.
"Period correct" comment again, to another poster, who sounds like a purist, and by what you want to accomplish, it is apparent you are not, both aspects are fine.
On the "asking too much", to me, having been around people, and myself included who have tried to turn a rifle into something it is not, it is self explanatory. Instead of me trying to change your mind, why don't you rig up the way you want, shoot the rifle as intended, and in a year, get back to us and tell us what you found out. If you are happy, that is all that counts, my opinion should mean nothing to you.
As far as accuracy at 100, your skill level and ammo choice may be the deciding factor.
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Rimfireraptor said:
I took a look at your suggestion. Nice looking scope. If for whatever reason my current Hawke doesn't end up working the Burris looks like it might fit the bill. Anyone know what this scope cost new and if the asking price is fair. With the price of scopes I'm guessing it is but would like to hear other opinions. I thought I read where Burris had a 100% guarantee and was transferable. Is this true ? If so that would sweeten the deal out considerably. Thanks for the tip.
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They do have a life time warranty, I had this exact scope in matte finish and sent it back for repair, they repaired it no questions asked. I was not the original owner. It is a nice optic, great glass and well built. That particular scope that I linked has been for sale for many, many months, because he is high on the price, but he is high on all his prices. I sold mine for $450 at my LGS on consignment.
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Rimfireraptor said:
Hmmmmmm...... I'm not sure I fully understand the comment
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I hope my above response did not sound crass, not my intention. Honestly, scoping a 22LR IMO is about as hard as it gets. I have had rifles built around a scope purchase. Need a real specific purpose with 22LR to do this, again, IMO.

Your budget is not mine, your requirements are not mine, etc... down the line.

This is me,
I have 2 high end target rifles that i shoot from 50 yards to failure. Scoping these rifles was easy, need maximum scope travel, acceptable parallax adjustments, extreme clarity to pick up shots, and functions great.
I also have 2 Kidd rifles, more perplexing here, but thanks to a retailer I like, I found a couple demo scopes for reasonable prices, and they ended up doing all that I ask.
Then I have 2 - 10/22's, way more thought needed here, what are they capable of, define the goal, what am I willing to pay for ammo, blah, blah. I don't mind dumping coin to an extent, but always end up Settling with 10/22 optics, some days I am happy with the scope, other days dr. phil is in my ear, "what were you thinking".
Which brings us here, and I am in a similar conundrum at the moment, and will need a sporter optic next week, looking now. I'm not buying a 1" tube, nor am I concerned about putting a matte scope on a highly blued, high gloss stock, that ship has sailed. It will get a 30 moa pic rail, chopped in the center to aid extraction, with NF ultra light tactical rings.
I feel the struggle, and your rifle only needs to please you, as mine only needs to please me!
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FritzFulton said:
After thought, this Burris is over 17 inches long and the Vortex is shorter, the proportions
of the Vortex might be more pleasing to the eye, especially on a sporter.
Fritz
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Funny you should comment this as I had the exact same opinion. I measured my 6x24-56 SF30 Hawke and it's only 14", so this Burris would be 3 1/2 longer.
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FritzFulton
Rimfireraptor said:
Funny you should comment this as I had the exact same opinion. I measured my 6x24-56 SF30 Hawke and it's only 14", so this Burris would be 3 1/2 longer.
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Like minds are best.
Fritz
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Well, the Burris ext tall rings came in and I did the clearance test. These rings are pretty unique as they have the nylon inserts of differnt heights so you can chance cant. They are about .010 different in height. So I started off with the regular inserts in both then to help with clearance I put the thicker in back and the thinner in front to taper down giving more clearance in the back, The bad
news is with this set up (as shown in pic) the bolt handle rubs the rubber knurled power ring and once cleared if you hold the bolt handle up you removing freeplay/slack you can just barely touch the metal tube aft of rubber ring. Now this is without the top ring caps on which may bring down scope another few thousands...... so the verdict is a "no go". If I just one more penny or a penny and a half thing would work. Just for reference ..... the outside dia. of the rubber knurled ring is 1.9 on the Vernier. So..... now I guess I have to find another scope with a smaller ocular. Am I correct to assume a 1" scope would be my best or only option ? Does anyone have any model scopes that they could recomend/consider ? Another option, which Im not sure is the best is to contact SK Rings/mounts and have they make a customer setup as I now have pretty much specific measurements which they can use and make a base that can give me another pennys worth of height. Im guessing time to look at another scope... and if that is the case looks like it will be gloss all the way (insert happy face) Also, regardless of what scope eventually goes on this, a cheek rest will be an absolute must, which I guess is o.k. Maybe I should look what others have used on 52B's for a combination and just emulate. Look forward to any suggestions anyone might have. Just for argument sake..... I do not feel that this scope / height looks offensive, even with an additional pennys height added. Also, once this scope clears You can see I have lots of room to move fore / aft if necessary. P.S. I did not put the front scope ring on as it is the twist/lock type and would have marred the surface and hence could not return it so I used verniers to mic up height and the pennies are dead on same as front ring would be.

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SageRat22
If you would replace the Burris bases with another brand, like Leupold, you can gain an inch or more of rearward movement and possibly get the forward part of the ocular ring away from the bolt handle. The front Burris base has an extension out over the barrel that really doesn’t help you and a Leupold base puts the ring directly above the screws in the front of the receiver.
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SageRat22 said:
If you would replace the Burris bases with another brand, like Leupold, you can gain an inch or more of rearward movement and possibly get the forward part of the ocular ring away from the bolt handle. The front Burris base has an extension out over the barrel that really doesn’t help you and a Leupold base puts the ring directly above the screws in the front of the receiver.
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I hear what you say but cannot see how that would fix my problem. If, if the leupold bases & Rings do not raise the scope height but only allow it to move the scope rearwards that would not
resolve the issue as the bolt in the pic above is basically closed and hence needs to be moved backwards to eject shell. That backward movement distance is substaintial and the bolt handle would again hit the rubber ocular Knurled section. Also, at this current ring/base height if you physically raise the bolt handle all the way up removing any free play it's within thousands of an inch of metal tube and the top scope rings have not even been added and torqued which i'm sure will compress the scope down even a few more thousands. So....... unless I get a "skinnier" scope or a slightly taller set of rings and/or bases the problem will not be cured. I can only imagine dropping from this 30mm tube to a 1" will help the cause. Looking for suggestions on a good 1" scope, preferrably gloss, variable with high magnification (prolly nothing less than what I have now) fine tapered crosshairs or fine duplex tactical reticle, preferably w/tactical turrets) Have to get below that 1.9 diameter ocular that I have now if I stay with the 30mm tube. I was going to look to see if Vortex has anything but not sure if everything is 30mm and up with todays new tube standards. Any scope
suggestions would be much appreciated. Burris, Bushnell, Leupold, any good quality scope....
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SageRat22
I’d try to find a nice gloss Leupold 6.5x20. It’s a long scope but might solve your issue of needing big power. It’s long enough that you should be able to slide it back enough to get ocular clearance.
Another solution I’ve seen is to find a replacement bolt handle at one of the parts places and have a good gunsmith bend it to get scope clearance. There’s some old posts about doing that.
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TEDDY BEAR RAT
Or, make some shims to place under the bases to gain that last bit of needed height. Don't worry about how the shims will look at first; just make some out of aluminum can material and stack them until you get a feel for how thick the shims need to be with the ring tops clamped down tight. Then you can make some permanent ones. Did you try two offset inserts, front and back, to raise the scope? Might be enough, since you're close. And, I agree, they don't look freakishly tall to me.
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O.K. Since I am so very close to clearing the bolt handle, I believe a pennies height more would solve the problem, and considering Burris lists the extra tall rings that I am using at 1.02 (from cenerline of scope to rings flat surface where it mates to their bases. Does anyone know if there are other rings out there that a taller than these extra/tall Burris 420582. I also was suggest on looking at a Leupold Vari-x III 6.5-20 LRT (Long Range Target) scope. Gentlemen who had one mic'd up the ocular diameter and it came out to 1.65 whereas mine current Hawke is 1.9. So I gain .250 thousands (actually only half that since that measurement is split for both sides of scope) So I gain .125 thousands which just might get me out of the woods. Anyone have any opinions on this Leupold model ?
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