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My 457 22 lr varmint stinks to high heaven for groups (think I have resolved)

4744 Views 63 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  squirrel1
Two inch dot in video Shot at bottom of dot and top od dot. Basically getting 1-1.125 inch groups/

(2406) My CZ 457 varmint 22 lr stinks - YouTube
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Start with a few basics:
Action screw torque - I found 18"# worked the best in all my rifles. Some say 25.
Barrel retaining screw torque - 35"# - higher and you could warp the chamber
Barrel equally spaced in barrel channel - hold it centrally while you torque the screws
Check for carbon ring in barrel - that rifle looks well used so could be fouling up

I had a Varmint that did vertical stringing - turned out to be the scope, not the rifle.

Wolf ammo...is the batch Eley or Lapua?
 

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Sounds like you should check out a Chronograph to see what your ammo is doing. I had a rifle that just drove me crazy and almost gave it away. Until I bought a Caldwell Chronograph and found out my ammo was causing all my problems. (y) I just saw the pictures of your target and did not see if you used different ammunition. Just a suggestion. I would also check your scope mounts just to make sure nothing is loose. Good luck on your quest. (y)

Signalman 🚦
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Rifle has grand total,from new of 120 rounds. No carbon ring. Have shot with 25 and 20” pounds stockmscfew torque. Have shot with stop in stock in and out. Have not checked barrel set screws at all.

Shot with scope on 12x and 15x. Don’t think my shooting skills are that bad. Lol
Trigger spring changed out with yo Dave spring.
I did shoot gun before trigger spring change. Shot like crap then too.
Barrel is completely free floater- have checked. Both with stop in and out of stock.
Another gent just recently had same model shoot similar to mine st 50 yards.
I watched no the video.

This is so far worst shooting riife I have bought.
Not my first rodeo.
Will look at barrel screw torque. Will set driver to 35 inch pounds and see what happens when I try to tighten .

So far cci standard velocity, 22 year old wolf match target, 22 year old wolf match extra, geco.
Gun stinks with all these.
No consistency at all left to right or in the vertical.
 

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I had a CZ452 that shot that bad. It ended up being at the barrel muzzle. I couldn’t see it, but after using a chamfer tool on it my groups tightened up. Something to check out. Best wishes in figuring out the problem.
Cosmetics Office supplies Metal Titanium Steel


Brent
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Okay looked at feeding from magazine. Looks real real good. Nice flush shell going in. Loaded 2 live ones extracted and inspected no bullet damage. Cci standard barely touching riflings though.
Checked barrel screws with torque set to 30. Both seemed tight.
Now the bad part.
Barrel extremely hard to remove (yes I did have mag well screws loose. This is only my 5th CZ.
Anyways got barrel out.
Barrel won’t slide back in. Sticks on the thingy held by the one magazine well screw.
Using finger pressure holding up (no go) with oem varmint barrel. It lines up but won’t go on.
So got one of my Lilja hm2 barrels and it goes on when lined up. Lilja barrel had no shims installed (so it is longer) yet it goes all the way in to end of tenon unlike other 2 barrels.
Got an old 22 lr pencil barrel I had from 455 model.
It acts just like original varmint barrel. Lines up but sticks.
Only way to put original barrel on is to drive on or let barrel screws bring it up where it is supposed to be. Don’t like that idea.
Have tried this with the 3 different barrels. Lilja barrel goes on right.
So something is out of spec somewhere. Yet Lilja barrel mates up with little pressure.

Any thoughts?

Inspected crown with flashlight don’t see anything obvious wrong.
Peeked down barrel from both ens with flashlight, don’t see anything obvious wrong, don’t have borescope.

I am trying to figure out how factory put the barrel on? Did they torque barrel screws and bring barrel up to position? IDK
 

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I had a CZ452 that shot that bad. It ended up being at the barrel muzzle. I couldn’t see it, but after using a chamfer tool on it my groups tightened up. Something to check out. Best wishes in figuring out the problem.
View attachment 360025

Brent
I need that tool and a chamber tool also for chamber damaged by firing pins.
 

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I "mild" press fit seems to me to be ideal. Tight tolerances but not hammer in tight. You could always carefully polish it up good with roll sandpaper for a very slight material removal. Personally I think being tight but easy to move using the barrel screws is perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
More info. I always though this rifle when new bolted up pretty hard. Harder than any other CZ I have had (no cartridge in chamber).
With barrel removed bolt closing seems more normal pressure wise.
This is comparing closing bolt up with oem barrel installed no cartridge vs closing bolt up no barrel installed.
 

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If you were able to remove the original barrel with relative ease, I would call the barrel fit to action good, even though you are experiencing difficulty putting it back together. Try wiping the surfaces to make sure there's no contaminates, put on a thin film of light oil prior to reassembly. Also, it'd be good to headspace while you have it apart.

I'm able to remove the barrel on my new 457 by hand, it's a snug slip fit that requires no tools after backing out the screws.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
If you were able to remove the original barrel with relative ease, I would call the barrel fit to action good, even though you are experiencing difficulty putting it back together. Try wiping the surfaces to make sure there's no contaminates, put on a thin film of light oil prior to reassembly. Also, it'd be good to headspace while you have it apart.

I'm able to remove the barrel on my new 457 by hand, it's a snug slip fit that requires no tools after backing out the screws.
Removing barrel was a bear. Never seen this before. I thought it was glued in it was so hard.
Suspect tenon too long for action too.
I shouldn't be getting real hard bolt closure with no cartridge installed. Night and day difference with barrel removed.
Also of special note.
I installed yo Dave spring.
Difference in trigger pull lot more than I have witnessed checking trigger weight bolting up with no safety engaged vs bolting up with safety engaged then tske safety off and check trigger weight. I did adjust sear engagement no help. Make sure me thing bolt is in bind with barrel installed.
I have checked trigger with barrel out. Get awfully close to same trigger weight checking with and without safety use.
If I can slightly sand oem barrel to get it to fit. I’ll check bolting up pressure again. And add shims to tenon and see how much space I need to add to get pretty much same bolt closure pressure with barrel removed. Will fire and check firing pin hit.
I have felt bolt pressure similar to this before installing Lilja barrel with headpace around .002-.003” too small. I set a barrel up before I got a gauge. And when I used gauge I knew my error.

There is another possibility the oem barrel when installed causes the thingy the barrel slides up on to be moved backwards slightly and bolt is hitting causing the extra pressure to close bolt.
 

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Barrel won’t slide back in. Sticks on the thingy held by the one magazine well screw.
The mentioned thingy, the bolt guide, is a powdered metal (MIM) piece and it may have mould lines as well as messed up leading - facing the bolt - edge, or even be out of spec - slightly too thick, all of which could interfere with the seating of the barrel.
Inspect it, and even if everything looks good rob another CZ of one and swap it out, see if it fixes the problem - the tolerance stacking may have gotten you, like it did me under almost exactly the same circumstances, and that’s how I fixed it.
 

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I would suggest that you buy a $100 bore scope from Amazon. My 457 Varmint barrel was perfect when I ran a bore scope down it. I am very picky when it comes to accuracy. My .22s must shoot 1/2 moa or better at 100 yards. My Varmint would not do that until I installed a Harrell's tuner.
 
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