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Moly-FUSION and The Magnum

761 Views 12 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  techshooter
How many of you guys are using it?

I have treated my Butler Creek 10/22 barrel twice. Each time I have seen at least a small improvement in accuracy. Not so much as with one kind of ammo. It is more like the rifle is starting to not be so picky on ammo. Certain ammo that used to shoot 2-3" at 50 is now 1 1/2 -2" at 100. It is shooting so good now I am almost scared to try a third treatment. Any experience or opinions? Does it only get better?
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Moly

I've done mine twice,and what I've noticed is ease of cleaning and more ammo shoots a little better as it shoots in. We all shoot the ammo that does best in our rifles, but I like to shoot a few groups with different ammo to see how the rifle is doing. I shoot Rem PSP's now for xcore. It does v/well at 25 and 50. So does federal solid 50 gr.. Is it moly that has improved the performance? is it the gun finally shootin in? Is it the moly finally doing its fully intended usage? I say yup to all, and the shooter has a learning curve due to the compitition here also. I'd do it again. I have found tho, that cleaning has interupted accuracy. It takes a while for it to come back after a total vigerous cleaning. I have a question. What twist does the Butler have and for your info, my 882ssv likes the slower stuff. Again--I'd moly in a backwoods minuet. Bill :Blasting_ :Blasting_ :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am not sure of the twist on a BC barrel but I believe it to be 1:16". I will try to measure it when I get a chance.

I had at least 500 rounds down the tube before I tried the first treatment of moly. Probably more. I had also hand lapped with flitz a few times. Before I did the moly treatment the rifle clearly liked Remington 40 HP or CCI Maxi Mags. Everything else shot much bigger groups. Some were surprisingly bad. I do not think the first treatmeant took real well. I did notice that it was easier to clean but some of the bad shooting ammo still shot bad.

I took more care and time with the second treatment. The weather was warmer and I worked the paste in the barrel untill It started to warm the metal. That was at least 1000 rounds ago and the barrel is really starting to shoot all ammo pretty well. It still seems to like the 40 HP with the CCI bullet best. But now the Wincherster Supremes and Remingon Premiers shoot almost as good and it is getting hard to tell for sure which is best. Even the PMC plinkers are doing well at 100 yards now.

I know that some trigger work, practice and chamber polishing along the way may have contributed to better scores but I still notice less of an ammo preference. There is one thing for sure. As a wise *****,who uses it on his rifles, once said "It sure can't hurt any" He sure has proved that.

At first I was a bit skepticle but now I think I might just go ahead and do all my rifles.
 

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moly-fusion

I treated my Marlin 917 HMR twice (per very confusing directions). Used bathroom electric heater to heat barrel until it was almost too hot to handle. Oh yeah, I used metal polish (Mothers wheel polish) on the barrel first after firing about 200 rds. first. Barrel is very smooth inside, kinda silky smooth. Very easy to clean. Haven't noticed a lot of improvement in accuracy, it allready shot better than I can. I was just losing accuracy fast to fouling before treatment. I don't let it get very dirty now, clean about every 25 to 50 rds. with wipe-out. After reading others experiences I may let it go for awhile and see what happens. There really seems to be a lot of powder fouling in this ammo but I could probably just patch it out between outings. Don't get hardly any dissolved brass on patches anyway. My Savage 223 is next but it would be hard to improve it. LP
 

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Experiences

Chum: on topic, you may want to also check out a post from Recumbent at >>CZ>> CZ ... .17HMR

"Wipeout" Based on the tests of ChiefDave, he doesn't use wipe-out anymore on top of a treatment of Moly-Fusion, because it strips it away. Redtip17 found that he had to use the Treatment-oil after each use of Wipe-out to restore its attack apparently on the Molybdenum in the Steel. The thing is, wipe-out is not a simple solvent or solvents and ammonia mix, but an enzyme that destroys soft metal (designed or discovered to do so). While MolyFusion treatment will sacrifice itself to protect the Molybdenum in chrome-moly steel, it sacrifices itself in the assault, just like it gets eaten with an attack from chlorine and water and from hydrochloric acid and water. When attacked, it isn't going to last forever: kind of like a battering ram will get through anything eventually.

Hogwire: It is still only partially treated after 2 treatments - and while the inherent accuracy of the barrel will go up - not necessarily with the load (or another one doing even better) that is best with the current state of the interior surface. MolyFusion isn't a finish: It affects the surface. (as to sliding, though, metal slipping under high pressure on a completed surface would "swear" it is like super grease. One thing that may be confusing is it is (the technology) not about barrel treatment, but about what it is (It acts like slick grease first: what it does afterwards (as in protection of: wear; blast (radiant) heat; corrosion) is in addition to primarily reducing friction (even under metal to metal pressure.)

Snogator - if you are doing a heavy cleaning as in using a brush when not needed (yet) you will want to touch up the MolyFusion treatment a bit - you want it at 100% at all times for best results and for minimum wear in the barrel rifling, lands, and throat, as well as protection against brush use if the brush is not needed. Question: what is "touch up a bit" = the same as after attack of wipeout: the 1 part MolyFusion, 7 parts oil treatment-oil.

-Molecules in the surfaces that are treated continue moving under fire and break in further - hence as breaking in requires additional treatment of now-untreated (or now exposed sections to fouling) molecules of the surface that were not treated in the first place (either by movement or not getting treated in the first place).

- My two cents on continuing to use it for surface reasons. It is only a super surface technology even if it is an internal surface, and only effective for what it can do. The internal surface of the bore scrapes against the bullet. (Bullet pushing against the bore.)
Jonathan.
 

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The completed surface is Moly-Fusion reacted to the metal, which requires physical contact to the metal.

If the metal is warm, the reaction is approximately 10 times more effective (results by trial and error).

Therefore reacting it is as simple as brushing your teeth: Start with the paste rubbed well onto the warm metal surface, and the reaction can continue by adding Moly-Fusion treatment-oil (If applied to metal like brushing your teeth.)

Yes, it does work on Stainless as well as chrome-moly as well as chrome-lined.

If you read "what Moly-Fusion is" at the Moly-Fusion homepage at http://molyfusion.com/molyfusion1.html (molyfusion.com = shootersolutions.com) it might make more sense.

The referenced thread with Recumbent's post indicates if you can make a Magnum barrel (functionally) bullet-proof, it changes the cleaning equation a great deal, as it being bullet-proof would make it self-lubricated even when shooting nothing but copper in the .17 caliber magnum since the smaller caliber is too hot for self-lubricating lead.

For .22 caliber, it will be the barrel will be tolerant of anything you put into it, meaning with bullet-proof (self-cleaning), the barrel will have more options, meaning you will be able to run copper through it if you desire, and go back to lead without missing a beat: or switch loads at will without a worry of ruining the barrel on the short term (having to re-lead the barrel with hundred or so rounds.)

That's my opinion on the changes.

Jonathan.
 

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Ladykiller said:
Last question: Why can't I treat the chamber? It says not to do it but it does not say why.

For all the text on the moly-fusion website, it could be more helpful.
The Moly fusion caused the chamber to be slick and the cases can't grip the walls when fired like They normally do. I do believe they state its ok to use on 22 lr wall and 22 mag walls. The stuff an't worth crapp anyway in my opinion. I used it and could tell now difference at all as far as accuracy or cleaning. If you really want to change Barrel harmonics get a cry-o treament. it won't wear off and it permanently changes the steel through out the diameter of the whole barrel not just the surface.
 

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I have treated the chambers on my 17 HM2, 17HMR and 22LR, Do not treat the chambers on any center fire calibers.

The rimfires are low pressure rounds compared to Centerfire and I have had no problems.

I wouldn't say i treated the chambers on purpose I just did not take any precautions when I treated the bores.
 

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I don't mean to be fresh, but I apologize Moly-Fusion is a technology that is limited to the user and also to the metal: It only reacts with metal, and only clean metal, and only does what it will do. But like buying a book on driving, the act of purchasing a book on driving does not mean you know how to drive.

Vmaxx: While user experiences with vary, "Treating" your barrel once and not seeing a night and day permanent change is like cleaning your hands once and getting mad you caught a cold several months later. Because it cannot possibly work that way. If you though it would - it won't. It is limited to what it can do.

Treating a barrel takes multiple treatments because when you shoot after the first treatment and 2nd, some metal that was treated is in the air somewhere, and now you have exposed steel that was never treated. I can't help that it does not treat every single molecule of steel the first time. It does not promise to do that, however.

Unfortunately MolyFusion cannot do the work if you don't use it. You have to apply it. It is a technology. However you can farm it out to a gunsmith if you are not handy to do it yourself: It will just take him multiple treatments, too.

Cryo costs per barrel - you have to ship it, insure it, and have it shipped and insured back, and at least one precision barrel maker states there is no further Cryo improvement you can do to their barrels from what they already do to make sure there is perfect crystal allignment within the steel.

MolyFusion costs per package rather then by the barrel, and if you get a large kit equivelant of sending one large barrel out: Cryo, shipping and handling and insurance both ways will treat dozens of barrels many times each. (Or even $20.00 or so more, the Super-Size Kit.) You have to follow the directions, though. It won't do anything stored in its containers unused. In other words if you don't use it, it won't do anything. How to use it as well as how often you must use if for it (how often, as the surface it creates is permanent in molecular structure of ingredients - but smash molecules off of the steel with speeding bullets/friction does some damage at first since untreated steel becomes exposed) to work is spelled out in the directions shipped now - online currently is not completely up-to-date.

On a seperate note, this month is the year anniversary of Chief Dave's amazing Rolex Watch no-kill underground shot homemade video. There is a picture of the plaque and diamond watch he got from Rolex for not killing either Rolex. Moly-Fusion keeping the copper out helped in making the shot work to the accuracy it did.

Ladykiler:
It can't be used in high power rifles because the manufacturer says not to put oil or grease in there (and then shoot.) Moly-Fusion'ed steel (the surface) is no longer factory steel.

The reason is you will have too much pressure back on the bolt face which will produce too much of a load back onto an action not robust enough to handle it. (The thicker part of the barrel is supposed to (by design) take some of the load for a moment of time - and it is designed to be thick enough to handle it.) Since you are changing the design of the rifle, you should not - unless you know the bolt lugs - even is single-shot will not shear eventually due to much total force on the metal increasing headspace. In any case it is an engineering question, and to get your attention in the beginning of the directions it says "not to treat the chamber of any firearm." It also states to not use it anywhere you cannot put oil or grease or where reducing friction to the degree it does will cause a problem.

My opnion,
Jonathan.
 
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