[bfishj]

I recently put together a 10/22 conversion using a whistle pig barrel and eabco bolt handle. My bolt and trigger group were sent off to Randy at CPC to have him complete his upgrades. I loaded the first clip with Eley ammo. After the first shot I took I could tell something wasn't right. Upon inspecting the case I found that it had rupture (similar to what happened in another post). Holding the rifle away from me and in a safe direction...I fired another round and the same thing happened. The following pictures show what occured. Anyone have any idea on what the first step to remedy the problem should be. When I fired hornady ammo it didn't rupture the case but it was dented. What is happening?

Is the bolt not staying closed long enough? The bolt was radiused so could this be the cause?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/bfishj/squirrel119.jpg

 

[Big Bad Wolf]

Oh Sh!t. I'd have a competent gunsmith check it out.

 

[Passinby]

Did you tell Randy the bolt was destined for the .17HM2? He does a slightly different mod for them, including that the radius machining is different from the .22lr

 

[12851]

bfishj,

before i got my EABco kit, had randy send a new factory bolt that he did all his tricks on INCLUDING the chamfering as i was going to use it with my ulti 10/22. swapped over to the kit and shot maybe 3 boxes of each of the mach2 ammo and have not experienced anything like your pics show. dont think it is the bolt. all i can suggest is try a diff brand of ammo if you have it. looks like that pig chamber may be too snug.

do you have a prob with extractions ??

 

[bfishj]

yes

I included a note to Randy that stated the bolt was gonna be for the mach 2. I sent him the action with the heavy knob installed. When I shot the rifle I started out with cci shells. They werent the most accurate and I began to notice the cases had an ever so slight bulge. I then shot five hornady shells...they too had a slight bulge like the primer area was trying to unseat. I would say about every 3rd shell there was a jamming problem. Being new to the Mach 2 I wasn't really sure what to expect. However, when I shot the Eleys I could definitely tell that there was a problem and said enough was enough. A really disappointing first day. I think it might be a chamber issue. I will contact Louis at WP tomorrow and keep you all posted.

 

[Blazer037]

The 17 cal liners the guys are putting in barrels have a tighter bore than the other barrels also, which will generate more pressure than the EABCO conversion. Don't know what WP uses for a liner, or what their dimensions are.

I'm not a fan of radiusing the bolt. It makes a longer lever arm against the hammer, which should make it take less effort to move the bolt backwards. With the HM2, you're looking for more effort, not less. Do you have a bolt you can swap in to try?

 

[LDBennett]

bfishj:

I'd guess that it is a head space problem. It can be either that the chamber is too deep in the rim area, or the bolt recess is too deep.

The same kind of problem could happen if the bolt is not fully closing.
I believe that a 10/22 can fire even if the bolt is not fully closed. If that happens the case is not surrounded at the rear by the chamber and is free to expand under the pressure of the burning powder. Too tight of a chamber or ammo that is too large in case diameter (at the end of the tolerance limits) could cause the round to not fully seat. A similar condition could exist if the bolt opens too soon. That is controlled by the force of the mainspring, the mass of the bolt, and the effort the bolt must expend to cock the hammer. A re-shaping of the bolt in the rear could greatly reduce the intial opening force allowing the bolt to open earlier when the pressure was too high in the chamber.

These blow-back actions are touchy and Ruger designed this one without the rounded bolt rear end and for the 22 LR cartridge. Changes like you have done require serious design calculations and/or testing to get it right. You may be able to fix the problem by using a heavier recoil spring if such a thing is avaiable or return to a bolt without the modified rear end. If it is a head space problem then I'd return the barrel to your source and get a correct one. A few tests will indicate which way to go. If you need guidance in that testing contact me directly.

LDBennett
[email protected]

 

[bfishj]

email

Received an email back from Louis @ WP. I guess the Eley ammo is prone to that sort of thing with the high powder mixture they use. However, the Hornady is thought of to cause the same problems. He agreed to take the barrel back. Will keep you guys posted

 

[22505]

Chamber

Look at the end of the case it is slightly beveled. The chamber may not be deep enough and you need to cut the chamber again.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum

 

[19828]

The problem is that the bolt is not heavy enough! It takes at least another 1-1/2 oz. of weight, and I'm sure that EABCO bolt handle is not that much heavier. It will also require some weight in the bolt itself. Redman liners are tighter, and require an additional 2 oz. for proper function.

 

[23328]

Last week, at my shooting range, i've seen similar things on cases that i found on the shooting table but it was 17hmr cases but not open like that :yikes:

 

[12851]

as i've mentioned and will again,

have the EABco kit converted to the 10/22 receiver using a randyized chamfered bolt originally meant for the "ulti"10/22 but used it in the 17HM2 conversion and have used all of the 4 diff types of ammo with no negative results. yea, some are not as accurate, maybe flyers, but no swelled, fat cases, FTE, FTF, no nada, functioned perfectly, no matter the ammo. maybe i got a good bbl !!

 

[Vincent]

When Skeeter was first working with his 17 he did not have a go No/go chamber guage so I advised him to measure the rim to shoulder dimension on all the 17m2 ammo and chamber to that one. Turns out the Eley had the longest measurement so he chambered for the longer measurement. If your chamber is just a tiny bit short the Eley will hold the bolt slightly open. The 10/22 will fire even a full 1/4" out of battery. So....if the WP barrel has a tight chamber (usually a good thing) it can be a bad mix.

Also Skeeter found that if his rifle was not cleaned on a regular basis it will cause the same problem. I beleive he said every 200 rounds but I could be incorrect.

On my bolt Nylon 11 conversion I have had some real problems with the Remngton, Made in England Ammo as well. I believe this is just Eley ammo with a Remington headstamp. I've had about a 30% miss fire rate on $10 a box ammo. I remain unimpressed with what Eley is doing to the 17M2.

 

[LDBennett]

In my CZ varmint bolt gun Eley is the only ammo that makes it shoot to my expectations of 1/2 inch for an average of five-five shot groups at 50 yds off the bench.

I found that the CCI and Hornady were closer to an inch and the Remington (made in England, probably by Eley) was close to 3/4 inch and of course the Eley was at 1/2 inch. The bolt action CZ operates just fine (as would be expected) with any of the four 17HM2 cartridges that I have tried. At $5.50 a box, I find it only slightly higher than CCI or Hornady and vastly more accurate.

LDBennett

 

[Vincent]

The problem is that the bolt is not heavy enough! It takes at least another 1-1/2 oz. of weight, and I'm sure that EABCO bolt handle is not that much heavier. It will also require some weight in the bolt itself. Redman liners are tighter, and require an additional 2 oz. for proper function.

He did not have a Redman liner....where did you get that? He has a Whistle Pig Barrel

 

[18600]

Whistle Pig barrels are alloy. with a liner. I also suspect the liner is from Redmans Rifling & Reboring. If anyone has more info. Please post

 

[8495]

From WP's site:

Liners: 4140 Chrome Molly Alloy Steel
.050 Thickness on LR & Mag Liner, 6 Groove
.065 Thickness on .17HMR & .17HM2 Liner, 6 Groove

Redman liners are way thicker than that.

 

[Vincent]

Right on with that!! Besides, why would a barrel maker use a Redman liner? The liner in my "Space Gun" conversion is a Redman and I am going to try to figure out what the bore dimensions are. I have some ideas. I'm not sure anyone knows for sure.

Edit: Brownells and two other site all sped Randy Redman's liners at .172"!!! Same size as the SAAMI spec for a 17 Cal barrel.

 

[8495]

I sluged my Redman liner in three places. The O.D. of the slugs where .171, which I was told at another forum was perfect (.001 less then .172). However the O.D. of the slug where the rifling was .167-.166 (which mean the riflings are .001 to.002 thicker than most factory barrels).

The O.D. of the liner itself a hair under 5/16 of an inch.

The pilot on the reamer was .001-.0005 smaller than the standard reamer IIRC.

 

[mossback]

how'd you do that

gunter,
I would be interested to known how you got three different slug measurements from a single barrel. As you must know you have to drive the slug out one end of the barrel or the other, the most you can expect is two measurements.