[MLR1722]

I have a question about the Nordic stock and the Charger pistol.

I'd like to make a very small "tactical" plinker, without cutting down a barrel and going the SBR route.

If I buy a Charger (which is recorded on the 4473 as a "pistol", and then install it in the Nordic stock, will it be legal as long as I do not attach a butt stock to the Nordic kit?

I'm thinking that if I instead install a small sling swivel on the back of the Nordic stock, it would be good to go as a pistol, but what say you?

 

[gunsmokeer]

Ok

It sounds OK to me, but what if you happened to own an AR-15 butt stock and BATF charged you with "contructive possession" of a short barreled rifle (a modern handgun with a sholder stock)? BATF isn't know for always being reasonable or having common sense. Technically it's up to them to prove that you intended to use the butt stock on that pistol's new receiver. In reality you could get convicted if you don't prove to a jury that you had no such intention.

 

[MLR1722]

Well, there's the rub, I suppose. I do have a couple of AR15 rifles and some spare parts (including a stock, but no buffer tube) lying around.

I also have a few 10/22 rifles as well. I had hoped to buy one of the Nordic kits and swap it back and forth between a charger pistol and a 10/22 rifle (omitting the butt stock on the pistol, of course) as suits my mood.

The reason I was thinking about adding a sling loop to the back of the Nordic kit was for precisely the reason you mentioned above, proof that I had no intention of mounting a butt stock on there when teh Kit was installed on a Charger.

Still, if this would open you to that kind of prosecution, it would seem that merely possessing a Charger, and a 10/22 with a Nordic kit could be construed as constructive intent because you have all the components to make an illegal gun.

For that matter,having a Charger and a 10/22 at the same time wuld also qualify, because what's stopping you from putting the Charger action in the 10/22 stock?

Ah, well. They do take the fun out of everything, don't they?

 

[Low budget dude]

Personally I've never met an ATF Officer.

However I do remember some of the stuff that happened because they said someone did something "wrong"

And I've read "Unintended Consequences" enough times to really HATE the ATF.

So on one hand you might never have any problems, and on the other hand you could be in a WORLD of HURT!

 

[Mrcarcrazy]

playing with fire on this one.....don't do it. Feds have no sense of humor. I'd just play it safe.

 

[CraigC]

Be wary of internet legal speculatin'. As long as you don't physically attach a buttstock to the Nordic with a barrel shorter than 16", you are fine. Owning an AR buttstock is not against the law and they would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you used the buttstock on the pistol. You cannot be convicted for intent alone. It would be no different than owning both a Charger and a 10/22 rifle and having an extra rifle stock laying around. I have a 10/22 rifle and an extra stock standing up in the corner from my recent project. If I buy a Charger, I've not broken the law just because they are in the same house. Put that way, it sounds kinda silly doesn't it?

Besides, the ATF has better things to do than going door to door asking people if they have a pistol AND a buttstock.

 

[AGJ223]

Not mine but found it in the ultimate section.

I'm not sure if this qualifies as an "Ultimate" build but I don't know where else to put it. I got my Nordic kit this week, finally got around to putting it on. I picked up the free float rails locally from Oly Arms. Still need to get a bipod for it and mount my red dot but here's a sneak peek:

Only real mods right now are the extended mag release and the auto bolt release.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228212&highlight=charger

 

[frog5215]

"Proving to a jury" is the problem.John Q Public has NO concept of what might be reasonable; without at least one vocal, knowledgable, committed gun guy on the jury, you're screwed. That's AFTER you've hired an NFA attorney.

But ,hey, it's your money.

 

[19045]

Someone makes a screw in plug that fills the shoulder stock hole. I'd use one if I built a pistol.

 

[MLR1722]

The image someone posted above is exactly what I had in mind.

But, I'm still a bit leery of doing or having anything that could be interpreted as "illegal" on some technicality.

I guess it's better to just pass on it for now. Who knows, the law might change some day.

 

[druid318]

I think as long as the AR parts have a legal use you are fine.

If you had the charger and the nordic and AR stock and no rifle for the AR stock you might be in trouble.

I think the best solution is to get a plug like someone said, maybe have it welded into the hole so a stock Can't be attached.

There are plenty of people that swap the T/C parts around, its only a problem if you don't have a legal use for the parts as I understand it.

 

[chrismetallica1]

I thought about this one before. Unfortunatly we cant have chargers in the UK . However we can have a ruger 10/22 in a pistol stock as long as we use a 16" barrel and have an overall legnth of 24" so we need to fit a short pistol buffer tube to make it UK legal. However I spoke to a friend in texas and he told me that your rules on SBR and chargers are diffrent. Somthing about it being illegal if you had a charger in a Nordic or Evolution and had a spare AR stock in your home. Even if it was not fitted to your charger. Im sure that you could fit a pistol plug like the boys on the AR15 forum use on there pistol AR's.

Spikes tactical do them for about $20. I would blue loctite it in so there is no arguing that you intend to fit a stock

 

[CraigC]

"Proving to a jury" is the problem.John Q Public has NO concept of what might be reasonable; without at least one vocal, knowledgable, committed gun guy on the jury, you're screwed. That's AFTER you've hired an NFA attorney.

But ,hey, it's your money.

Is this fear based on any legal precedence?

There is absolutely no difference between a Charger in a Nordic stock (no butt) and an AR-style pistol. None. If anything the Charger is even more in the clear because there is no buffer tube that could be misconstrued as a butt. These are all just paranoid fears with no basis in reality.

 

[Mooseyard]

Is this fear based on any legal precedence?

There is absolutely no difference between a Charger in a Nordic stock (no butt) and an AR-style pistol. None. If anything the Charger is even more in the clear because there is no buffer tube that could be misconstrued as a butt. These are all just paranoid fears with no basis in reality.

:yeahthat:

 

[John E Davies]

Is this fear based on any legal precedence?

There is absolutely no difference between a Charger in a Nordic stock (no butt) and an AR-style pistol. None. If anything the Charger is even more in the clear because there is no buffer tube that could be misconstrued as a butt. These are all just paranoid fears with no basis in reality.

True, but the ATF folks are NOT gun nuts - they merely enforce the laws as written. They have potentially ferocious power and not a great deal of technical knowledge.

I would NEVER attempt this project without ensuring that the Nordic receiver was _permanently_ modified to not accept a stock - just screwing in a plug does not qualify. Screwing in and tack welding would - just like screwing on a flash suppressor on a too-short barrel and then welding in a couple of spots, or installing a pin in a blind hole.

Lots of guys flirt with the gray areas of firearms law - once in a while one gets nailed by the ATF and gets to spend some quality time behind bars in a Federal penitentiary - are you willing to take the risk, no matter how small? Not me!

If you want some excellent pointers on this subject, Pat Sweeney's AR-15 Gun Digest book (Vol 1) goes into detail and it's a little scary.

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Book-AR-15/dp/0873499476

John Davies
Spokane WA

 

[Mrcarcrazy]

I've seen what the Fed's can do....and I wouldn't get into the gray area with them.

I Stay on the Straight and Narrow. If for no other reason than, It'd sure be a hassle to have to get an attorney to bail me out of Fed. Prison, and then fight the charges.

I'm sure there's thousands of people out there who own illegal firearms, and who will never be caught. But I'm the type of guy who'd have a gun that wasn't illegal, but an ATF agent would "think it might be" and would throw me in Jail.

Lets just say it wouldn't be the first time a cop assumed something and threw me in jail.....was later released of all charges, but it sure was a PITA, and it cost me money....the cop lost nothing in the whole deal.

 

[CraigC]

There's no difference between taking a Charger barrelled action out of its pistol stock (one screw!!!), placing it into a rifle stock and adding a buttstock to an AR-based pistol. None.

Just like handloads for self defense and overpenetration, all rumor and speculation based on myth. Show me some legal precedence, some REAL evidence to justify these fears and I will eat my hat.

 

[frog5215]

People have been charged with 'constructive intent" who owned Contenders, and purchased a carbine buttstock but did not yet own a barrel. Even if you owned a 16" barrel, you would want to pay attention to what order you put parts on the receiver.

Like I said, it's your money.

 

[Ulwembu]

Overhere, in the Netherlands, the law has no maximum limits for pistols and detachable stocks are allowed for them. A rifle has to be longer then 60 cm and the barrel of a rifle has to be longer then 30 cm. To me this posed a problem as, due to our maximum of five guns, I had no pistol anymore. Went to the local police department where they hand out the gun licenses and asked them to change my 10/22 from rifle to pistol. Took me 8 months and even going to the hotshot in gunlaw overhere but I got it done! I'm now officially the first person in the Netherlands who has changed a rifle to pistol on paper. This means I can make a pistol out of it (minimum barrel length is 2,5 inch).

Guess what I'm trying to say: overhere, we often are very jealous at you gun laws but if I read the above, in this case, I'm glad to live on this side of the pond

 

[druid318]

People have been charged with 'constructive intent" who owned Contenders, and purchased a carbine buttstock but did not yet own a barrel. Even if you owned a 16" barrel, you would want to pay attention to what order you put parts on the receiver.

Like I said, it's your money.

In your example the guy didn't have a legal way to assemble a firearm with that part, therefore it is all the parts to make a Short Barreled Rifle/ Rifle stock on a handgun.

The OP has a legal use for his AR parts, he has an AR. Big difference there.

There is no "gray area" here, the T/C guys fought all this out already. Plenty of people making AK and AR15 handguns also.

If you want to be "safe" weld the plug in, but legaly you should be fine as long as all your parts have a legal use.