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Hi Richard , I have just got back from the range , I had a go at the iron sight but I am wasting time on that , eyes arn't up to it . Had a go with my scoped BSA MkII , It turned out to be the best 5x 5 I have ever shot , I think I will await your call on it , targets will be in the post Monday . Dave .
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And away we go…

A fine 5X5 Iron Sights card from claybuster plus one from me… not nearly so good. Also a 5X5 for my Derelict (P94S). Skeeters are out, calm conditions and they got hungry fast… I had to quit :Blasting_ :Blasting_

 

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Darn fine targets…

from the UK, TX and TN

Indoors from the UK shooters, dave 101 and crazymaz our Junior. The 95% humidity in Texas. Winds from the four compass points nearly everywhere and up to 15 mph. Some SWEET cherrypicks, both of 'em being ZEROS !

 

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Target

Will post a target shortly ...

But not these ...



The Sako is frustrating , I can tune it to shoot .2 or .3 without fliers ...

But try and get smaller groups , and its flier time ...

3 Botom targets have 4 shot groups around .1 or better and the dreaded flier .
Its just something about this stock ....

I might try gluing the action in ......

Matt
 

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Have a couple of 25 yd 5X5's headed your way, Richard. One with the 40X & another w/ the 52D. Not particularly proud of either but they are the best I've been able to do in the wind......

(Oh, BTW, that "cherry pick" was a 50, not a 25. I shot several groups @ 50 tuning that day, just before I shot the 5X5.)......
 

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Ahhhhhh…

Oh, BTW, that "cherry pick" was a 50, not a 25. I shot several groups @ 50 tuning that day, just before I shot the 5X5.)......
Corrected. Sorry for this.

FWIW… I did get the yardage correct in SS ver. 2a.1 but posted the earlier SS ver. 1c.3 image :eek:
 

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Me too…

The Sako is frustrating , I can tune it to shoot .2 or .3 without fliers ... but try and get smaller groups , and its flier time ...

3 Botom targets have 4 shot groups around .1 or better and the dreaded flier .
Its just something about this stock ....

I might try gluing the action in ......

Matt
If those are shot at 50Y (M) then I am getting the same thing… IT'S THE AMMO. My P94S has an Annie 2013 barrel set to 0.043, a Mc Millan stock bedded properly, the Jewell 2 oz trigger, a T-36 on the Farley top, w/ a Protektor rear set on a cinderblock and poured concrete benchtop. Firm on the front screw, snug on the rear. Tightening the rear makes it worse. NO screw/pillar contact.

Same brand and lot that shoots zeros "occassionally" w/ a bulge to one side or the bottom taking the group into the ones at 25 yards will ALWAYS drop one 1/2 inch out of the group at 50. I just completed 25 groups of 5 at 50 Y in calm conditions (just enough breeze to ripple the tails (clearing the mirage)) and every group had that FLIER at .375 (3/8th's) or more distant.

Sadly I think I am going to have to spring for the high dollar ammo if I wanna sleep well at night :eek: :eek: :mad:

Or just shoot at 25Y !

.
 

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Ammo

I dont think its the ammo ...

Esp when I can tune out the fliers but get larger groups ...

The card ill be posting is the result of tuning out the fliers but getting larger groups ...

I shot both SK and Eley Match EPS , those small groups were shot with the Eley Match EPS ..

So since both SK and Eley do the same thing when I try to tune for tiny groups , I think its the bedding ...

If you check out 6mmBR , they say its most likely the bedding ......
Im currently trying to rack my brain on how to bed the sako ...
Glue it in ? or try some sort of bedding material like paper , rubber , etc

Matt
 

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Ok

I made 2 10thou paper gaskets to fit under the front of the action ..
I then tightened the front screw and checked to see if the action rocked ...

Nope , so it would seem that the inleting is at least 10thou out , if not possibly 15 thou depending on how much the gaskets squash ...

I found a long time ago that it was some what easy to bend the sako action when tightening the action screws ....

Now I need some steel shims , I think ...
 

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Sorry !!!

IT'S THE AMMO. My P94S has an Annie 2013 barrel set to 0.043, a Mc Millan stock bedded properly, the Jewell 2 oz trigger, a T-36 on the Farley top, w/ a Protektor rear set on a cinderblock and poured concrete benchtop. Firm on the front screw, snug on the rear. Tightening the rear makes it worse. NO screw/pillar contact.

Eeeeerrrr !!!!!! I hate to say this , but not the ammo ... :hide:

The Sako action is weak , and bends very easily , esp with the poor location of the rear screw , almost in the middle of the action .. So if the bedding is not spot on , the action will bend when tightening the action screws .. This will put tension into the action , bit like a loaded spring , so depending on the harmonics this spring may come into action every now and again ..

And with the step built into the action , and lack of bedding surface to the rear of the action , oooh dear ...

In anyway , after checking mine , it would seem to be out , the front part of the inletting is possibly 15 to 20 thou to deep , putting stress/tension on the action ...

Sako should have made the action flat bottomed , but I guess they wanted to save an ounce or two ... Im going to make on more paper gasket , and see if it makes a difference ... [ I'll shoot it with 1 then 2 then 3 gaskets ]

Matt
 

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Richard, I have some groups on the way to you. (may be there by now) Hope I did every thing correctly, this is my first time to enter the group matches. This must a bit of work for you, and I for one (I'm sure there are many others) would like to thank you for the work you do to put on, and score these matches.

Jim B.
Odessa TX
 

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Man oh man, man alive ! ! ! ! ! !

FIVE ZERO groups from two shooters !

And he remarked that the wind didn't ever wanna "lay down" AND that he "only has SK Std+ to shoot." Here's his submittal…



Our first 5X5 AGGREGATE UNDER .1@ 0.0982" Congratulations, Stan !
:bthumb: :bthumb: :D



A new shooter, from the USBR clan, who consistently shoots 250s with a high Xcount. Welcome… fyrechaser :bthumb: Fine targets, as well.

And a notorious PIRATE over at the SS/B & SS/B Cheap Ammo Challenge crew, sent in an Iron Sight 5X5.

Now to business… the above target image. That's perfect for me to measure. All groups on one sheet, good bullet "smears"
on good "paper" (a used "official" target)

Here's how I measure… and issues I can have:



The template has six fine apertures scribed on it, 22 thru 30 cal. I center the 22 aperture over the first bullet hole, using the smear
to identify the edges. The aperture is then moved to the most distant hole and ∆ distance is measured directly by the caliper
(mine's a digital Mititouyo). I do use a 3X diopter fluorescent magnifier to view and center the aperture during measurement(s).

Here's what happens when something different is offered…



the smears in the black areas are hard to identify, making the measurement one which needs to be repeated to affirm it's proper.
(n.b. the aperture IS slightly misaligned for the photo, it's slightly left and slightly down)

Remember, any target style and paper is welcome. Using the short-stranded buff paper in "official" targets… just makes measurements
easier as does having all groups on one "card" as they say in the UK.

Thanks for taking the time to read this far.

.
 

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Thanks for the Kudos, Richard. Some days everything just seems to work. They really measured better than I expected them to. With the "cheap" (terrible when >$4/box ammo is considered cheap) stuff there is always a good deal of luck involved. As I'm sure you are aware, if you can get thru 25 shots, either in a 5X5 or on a "25-bull" target, without a flier, you can do OK. There is just a better chance you'll find that flyer than with the $10+ ammo.......

Great narrative on the "nuts & bolts" of measuring the groups too. We really appreciate your efforts. Probably nobody but Jim Finn realizes how much work is involved. Thanks!
 

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And one from "down under"

Got a target series from MattK. Pretty fair groups but one. Seems he might be on the right track towards solving his bedding
on the SAKO.



An addendum to my comments… I will normally measure each group thrice and average the individual series as IIRC,
Joe Haller and others do as well. That average is what is posted for each single group.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi all , I thought I had some good groups this month , not as good as had hoped , must try harder LOL . the standard of the shooting is getting better and harder to compete with , thats some good shooting Stan . As said before Richard thanks for the effort you put in to the scoring , it must be getting harder for you with the shrinking group sizes . Dave
 

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Sako

After experimenting with gaskets , it looks like that BR stock is a little out of whack when it comes to inletting ...

I may have to try gluing the action ... Though I got it to shoot ok , it would not hold the tune ....

Matt
 

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Glued

I glued the action into the stock :bthumb:

I shot a .170 5 shot group with a flier ... less flier would have gone .085 ... This lot of ammo seems to have a rather large velocity spread !\
The flier was the last shot , and it def sounded differently to the previous 4 which went into .085
I wonder , is it the colder weather thats effecting the ammo ?

Matt
 

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Dick, I am mailing today 2 targets, 5 x 5 which are not to great but I need to get back into shooting more. Also, am sending 1 cherry picked that is not to bad but not great.

Richard
 

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A problem submittal

from Scott Merchant (smerch666) that was shot using a backer covered by an aimpoint sheet. It was extremely hard to
measure since the smears are on the aimpoint sheet and not on the submitted target. I did my best, trying to utilize the tears.
Problem is, tears from subsequent holes are not uniform as they are from a single hole, some being long, some short(er)
to non-existant.

So, I cannot consider the measurements accurate enough to allow the target. It is included, so it's UNCERTIFIED.

Scott, a GREAT target with some really tiny groups. But if you can, please reshoot, using an aimpoint w/ a center "hole"
that will allow bullet smears, thus offering a chance for definitive results. Alternatively, send in the "covering aimpoint sheet"
and I'll try to measure it.



.
 
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