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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Guys, it's been 29 years since Remington made a 20 cal rimfire rifle and ammo. It was one flat shooting, hard hitting, sub MOA @100 yard shooting $69 rifle if ever there was one! It was a poorly marketed and ill received round called the Remington 5mm.

NOW'S THE TIME TO RETURN THE GREAT 20 CAL RIMFIRE ROUND TO US.
IF THEY BUILD A 20HMR, IT WILL SELL! BUT WE HAVE TO LET THEM KNOW!
Hornady would likely be the best prospects to make it happen.

The differences and advantages between the old Remington 5mm rimfire then, and a new "20HMR" now:

1) Unlike in 1976, a bottle necked rimfire is now familiar, and popular.
2) Unlike the 5mm, the 20HMR will simply be a necked down 22 mag case.
3)The 20 cal round is now standardized & accepted thanks to the 204 Ruger.
4)Hornady already offers 20 cal bullets & they will be only to glad to sell more.
5)A 32 grain 20HMR = best of both worlds between the 22mag, & 17HMR....

It will shoot faster and flatter then a 22 mag., but shoot as accurate as the 17HMR. The 32 grain 20HMR will do all this while hitting almost twice as hard as the 17 grain 17HMR !

I'd eat my hat if a 20HMR flopped while everyone still ran out to buy the needle sized .17 round, or the lumbering 22 mag. I'm not Knocking the 17HMR, or the 22 mag. I'm just saying that a 32 grain 20 HMR would be the best of both. The HMR band wagon has already been rolling, and a 20 cal HMR would be an instant hit.

PLEASE CONTACT HORNADY AND ADVISE THEM OF YOUR INTEREST IN BUYING SUCH A RIFLE AND RIMFIRE ROUND. I have. :t
http://www.hornady.com/contact_us.php

EDIT: I think it would be advisable to refer to it as a 20HMR that you desire. The "HMR" phrase is already magical to marketers, and so they might listen harder!
 

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Who knows, Remington brought the 350 Magnum back from the dead :) , maybe they will bring back the 5mm. :confused: It seemes like alot of guys here want it back pretty bad. Maybe start a petition or something... It would be interesting. Good luck.
Aaron
 

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How about just getting the 5mm rem back into production...

Hornady could make that ammo

too many 5mm rifles sitting around with nothing to eat...
 

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How exactly would this round differ vastly from the 17HMR? I think we stand a better chance of getting a 25gr bullet loaded in the 17. That would put the 17 right up there with the 22mag for power and using a better bullet. That seems like a win, win situation to me.
 

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I think that the 20 HMR (??) would probably be easier to get made than having the 5mm rem return. Like you said the 20 would be based off of a 22 mag case but the bullet would probably be somthing in the 27-29 grain area. Reason being, it is a rimfire, not centerfire. Maybe the 32 would work, but most likely it would be the heaviest bullet available. I would deffinately try one and would love to see what kind of accuracy it could generate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
QUOTE; daletheman:I think that the 20 HMR (??) would probably be easier to get made than having the 5mm rem return...... Maybe the 32 would work, but most likely it would be the heaviest bullet available.

Cowpoke,
A major manufacturer has to see great marketing potential and steady sales. Thinking that a large manufacturer will start producing ammo again 29 years later for some old rifles sitting around in closets is a pipe dream.

daletheman,
I agree with you that a 20 cal. 32 grain bullet would be slightly on the heavy end. BUT IT IS CURRENTLY BEING PRODUCED, AND SO IS THE 22 MAG CASE. So it would be easy for Hornady to start loading the ammo with the available components. All that would have to happen is for a gun manufacturer like Ruger or Savage to agree to produce the rifle. THE RIFLE IS ALREADY MADE IN THE FORM OF THE 17HMR !

HOW MUCH EASIER DOES THIS GET TO PRODUCE A 20HMR?

Because the old 5mm case was slightly fatter then the 22 mag case, but it fired a heavier 38 grain bullet, I would guess that the performance of a narrower cased 20HMR with a lighter bullet would offer similar performance.

As popularity gains and the 20HMR takes off, the manufacturers would tool up and gradually produce different weight bullets. When you think of it, if a 27 -32 grain weight bullet been available for the 5mm 29 years ago, that would have been some real kick-*** rimfire round! (more so then it already was)

PLEASE CLICK ON THE HYPERLINK TO EMAIL HORNADY ASKING FOR A 20HMR
 

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22, you are right the 5mm case was slightly larger than the 22mag case, that and a lighter and smaller diameter bullet helped it acheive its ballistics. Using the same case as the 22mag, how would it be faster with a 2gr lighter bullet? The present bullets in 20 caliber are made to operate in the 4000fps area, something else would need to be designed for a rimfire velocity.
 

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My guess is that while it would be a cool little round, it wouldn't make $ sence to the manufacturers. Excepting the addicts that hang around here, 20HMR sales would likely cut into the sales of the previously established 22 mag and 17 hmr sales. i.e Folks would buy the 20HMR instead of the other two so no major increase in rifle/ammo sales, just a different flavor.
For the record , i'd be very interested in a new rimfire round but would be more optimistic in seeing ammo selection for the 17 HMR expanded to add versitility to that round. likely candidates to include:
a) a 25 gr soft nose bullet hunting round for bigger critters at closer range and
b) a reduced velocity target/ "backyard" load to duplicate close range 22 short /LR performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quaz,
I have a few of the 5mm rounds in the original box stamped $3.38 (Expensive stuff back then :eek: ) I have used a dial caliper on the case.

The 5mm was built on it's own unique case and was slightly fatter then the 22 mag case. The only loading it was available in was a 38 grain HP. I was amazed as a young man that I was able to rest my $69 tube fed Remington rifle on sand bags and shoot inside of 3/4" at 100 yards. (even in 1976, a $69 rifle was still a fairly inexpensive rifle)

I can only assume a lighter current 32 grain Hornady 20 cal bullet out of the thinner capacity 22 mag case will be close to the performance of the heavier 38 grain bullet out of the fatter 5MM case. As well, the bullet makers could make lighter weight bullets if they chose to do so. (26-28 grain?)

Perhaps, I have ovelooked the technicals of the bullet manufacturers being able to use the 32 grain 20 caliber bullets currently in production. Perhaps a lighter jacketed new bullet would be necessary for a 20HMR.

None the less;
NOBODY IS TELLING YOU THAT YOU CAN'T KEEP AND SHOOT YOUR CURRENT 17HMR RIFLE.....OR THAT YOU HAVE TO BUY A NEW 20HMR. The 17HMR is already a popular round that will stay with us probably forever.

But to those guys I have often heard from on the forums, that feel the 17HMR is too light for them, and the 22mag is too inaccurate and falls fast beyond 100-125 yards, a 20HMR would be a nice alternative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Tacoma said:
.... Folks would buy the 20HMR instead of the other two so no major increase in rifle/ammo sales, just a different flavor.....
Naaaaa.....manufacturers just love selling a whole nuther slew of rifles and ammo all over again, othrwise they would only make a rifle and ammo available in one caliber.
When sales start to stabalize, then they simply offer it in a fluted barrel, or something else.

Edit: Thanks Brad.
 

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;)

I'm all for variety. I personally would like to see this happen. It just might be the next hot item.

They would have to start labeling brass, so you don't mix the two.

Brad
 

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I received an answer to my email from Hornady about the 20HMR.

I accidentally deleted it and the deleted items as well.

Here's what they basically said.

Believe me we would love to develop a new HMR because of the money that we could make. We have experimented with a 20 cal and found that the accuracy was not that good. Thanks for your interests and your comments.

Brad
 

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brad541thb said:
I received an answer to my email from Hornady about the 20HMR.

I accidentally deleted it and the deleted items as well.

Here's what they basically said.

Believe me we would love to develop a new HMR because of the money that we could make. We have experimented with a 20 cal and found that the accuracy was not that good. Thanks for your interests and your comments.

Brad
that sucks. theres always something you can do to make a rimfire more accurate. period. they just need more R&D
-tex
 

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They acted like the idea would be a big flop. I guess they would know if they tested it. It seems like Hornady doesn't want to make something that will not be accurate with initial testing. They pretty much told me that they abandoned the idea.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Brad,

Sounds like an excuse and a crock of crap if that's what Hornady told you.

I'm not going to believe for a moment that many a standard 22 rimfire, a Remington 5mm rimfire (20 cal), or a 17HMR can all shoot inside of a dime at 50 yards, but they couldn't get their experimental 20 to work!?? Jeeez....even a 22mag can be made to shoot accurately.

I haven't heard back from Hornady yet, but maybe I've been barking up the wrong tree in directing my efforts toward Hornady! I'm going to contact the small caliber Guru himself.... Todd Kindler and see what he suggests, and who he thinks we have the best shot getting a "20HMR" off the ground. It's fine with me if it comes to be called a 20MMR instead! (ie; 20 MarlinMagnumRimfire.)
 
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