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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well i got back from the Range a couple of minutes ago with my New Marlin 917VSF. I was not to pleased the way it was shooting though. First of all i was shooting off of a Hoppes expert benchrest with a Sand-bag for a back rest. I was shooting at 50 and 100 yards and could not get this thing to group. At 50 yards for i would shoot an alright 4 shot group (about .4-.5) and then the next shot would be an inch high or so. Here are some of the groups I shot at 50 yards

.305 4 shot group, with flyer .5
.37 4 shot group, with flyer 1"
.405 4 shot group, with flyer .65
.43 4 shot group, with flyer 1"
.53 4 shot group, with flyer 1"

Out at 100 i would have an alright group that would measure .8 or so and then one of the shots would be about 2 inches high or or to the side.

I think what might be the problem was the heat of the barrel. I may not have been letting it cool down enough. If i shoot say 30 shots in 10 minutes is that too much for the barrel. I maybe did this once but then i would let the barrel sit for 20 minutes go back to it shoot it and it wold still shoot bad. Do you think i was not letting it cool down enough?

I am going to give it another try (or give myself another try :rolleyes: ) and i will see what happens.

Any suggestions?
 

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Was it always the last shot in the group and was it always only one out of 5? If it was the last shot in the group, I would say it's gun connected and probably heat related. Most likely a bedding problem or could be stress in the barrel that shows up at a certain temperature. If it is sometimes not there in a 5 shot group or maybe 2 in a group and show up anywhere in the string, it's ammo related. Just a heavy or light charge because of poor quality control during manufacture. Also the same ammo that shoots good at 50 doesn't nessesarily shoot good at 100. Were you shooting target or HV cartridges?
...... or it could be the shooter??? :D
After noticing where you're from I should have said "it could be the shooter, eh???".
 

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It's a new gun not settled in yet. Clean the bore again and check the action screws for tightness. My 917VS shoots the best with the front screw at 24 in lbs and the rear screw just good and snug.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
grandparem said:
...... or it could be the shooter??? :D
After noticing where you're from I should have said "it could be the shooter, eh???".
He he

Yah right ;) . :D

I think you were right about the heat thing. At first the gun was shooting terrible (shots everywhere) but then towards the end the groups started to tighten up a bit. Usually it was just the 1 shot that was off. But sometimes i would shoot 5 shots and 2 would be in one hole and three would be in the other an inch away. I will check the action screws a bit and play around with them. It may just be the barrel needing more shots through it first. I hope to go to the range again sometime this week so i will let you guys know how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mounts are fine. My scope was acting up a bit though. For example i would have it a a 1/4 of an inch to the left off or so at 50 so i would adjust my scope 2 clicks (my scope is 1/4 inch adjusmets at 100 yards) and then it would be 2 inches to the right. Then i would take another shot and it would be in the exact same whole. One thing i did forget to mention though was that when I fist started shooting (when my scope was acting weird) i took 4, 2 shot groups and each time they hit the exact same place. That was with the Federal 17 grain.

I think the main proplem was that i was not letting the barrel cool off enough.

I am not sure when i am going to the range next. I know i am going for oppening of Grouse on Saturday so maybe i can bring it and give it another try. If not i plan going to the range on Monday.
 

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My 2000L I use for bench rest is the most accurate after I put 5-10 shots to heat the barrel a bit and strangely enough shoots better groups if I dont clean the barrel during the afternoon shooting. As soon as I clean it, it starts fanning out the group. A hard thing not to give it a quick pull through after 25 or so shots because I am a fanantic on cleaning my guns.

mg66
http://www.bghi.us
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well i measured up my groups at 100 yards and was actually quite pleased.

The following are 4 shot groups. In each one there was a flyer which was usually about 1-2" low. Here are the groups

.47
.63
.68
.73
.755

Average .65 4 shot group.
There was also another "group" (4 shots) but i think those were my sighting in shots.

Its just that darn flyer in each group that i am frusterated about. Other than that it is shooting good. :D :D :D
 

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CZ,

I just dunno about a heating barrel causing your problem. I doubt that's the problem. I have a 22 Hornet Bruno rifle which with my best reloads will clearly produce 100 yard shots that will cluster in tight vertical strings. That clearly is the barrel as it heats up and the shots edge away almost in neat lines.

I have a Marlin 22 mag 982VS that frustrates me much in the way that your 17 is frustrating you. I put a 24X Target scope on it to check it's full potential. It's like always firing 3 or 4 shots in a nice little 3/4- 7/8" group with the next shot or two spreading away another 1/2". (Except my 22 mag produces larger groups then your 17 because it is not as natural an accurate round to begin)

Your rifle and mine share the same actions. I really feel that it has something to do with the poor manner with which the action is connected to the stock by only one bolt, and the barrel is pulled down to the stock by the other bolt.

I intend to get rid of my plastic stock, and have a new wood stock glass bedded.You already have a wood stock and so only need to bed it.

There was a gentlemen on these threads some months back that told me he got his 22 mag to consistantly start firing inside of 1" at 100 yards (darn good for a Marlin 22 mag) by adding a winchester tang to his action, and thus having the benefit of having two bolts pulling evenly on the action, without uneven stress pulling on the barrel.

There is another getleman recently here who reported getting great accuracy with his 917 by simply putting some electrical tape at the front of the stock and barrel. As you probably know, you have to try to rest your rifles forearm on the same position on your sand bag or rifle rest with each shot, and exert the same amount of pressure on it during your hold.

Anyway, if you're like me you will not settle for poor accuracy. I assume you will work at this this flyer problem, or perhaps get another rifle that is capable of doing fine accuracy out of the box as so many 917's are reported to be. If my 22mag rifle with a new stock and bedding does not improve, I will get rid of it inspite of spending money on top of money having tried to improve it.

But, this is a hobby and is all just for the fun of it. So, Are we having fun yet? :D
 

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22ingaround said:
CZ,

I just dunno about a heating barrel causing your problem. I doubt that's the problem. I have a 22 Hornet Bruno rifle which with my best reloads will clearly produce 100 yard shots that will cluster in tight vertical strings. That clearly is the barrel as it heats up and the shots edge away almost in neat lines.
:D
If you're talking about barrel heat causing extra pressure in the stock, they will string in a line, usually somewhat vertically. However if it's stess in the barrel itself, it can go in any direction. I had a .222 that strung them up and right and bedding the action and floating the barrel helped it, but if it's stess in the barrel, I'm not sure anything will help. Cryogenic treatment may help on rare occasions but it's not worth the expense as a new barrel would be a better option. The electrical tape at 7-8 o'clock and 4-5 o'clock, in the barrel channel, might be a cheap way to test it.
 

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Grandparem,

That vertical grouping routine of all the shots neatly clustering into a 1" long string doesn't bother me at all. At least it's still tight, and we can see and understand what's happening. You know......when you are experiencing this kind of vertical stringing, you could actually compensate and dope your shots back down below the target X to keep them shooting in a circle I suppose.

But this more typical random style flyer routine has practically no rhyme or reason and just plum frustrates guys like me an CZ.

Yes, maybe it can be internal barrel stress as you8 suspect. But because there are no after market 22 mag barrels to be had for the Marlin 982 (or 917), I have no choice but to try to work with what I have and address bedding and stock stress issues to improve accuracy. I also invested in a Basx trigger already.

I never thought of cryo treatment for a cheapy Marlin rifle. It might be worth it for me and CZ452 to make the cryo effort before giving up on our rifle entirelly???......or is this just throwing more good money onto lost money already? I don't even know if you can send the whole Marlin action with barrel to a cryo facility. I don't think trying to seperate the pinned Marlin barrel from the Marlin action is a normal procedure to be attempted.

If hind sight were 20/20, I'd have initially spent more money at the start for a $500 Ruger 77/22 mag, sold the original unfired Ruger barrel on Ebay, and then ordered a top notch LILJA REPLACEMENT BARREL for the Ruger. Much tighter groups would almost certainly be guaranteed, perhaps without having to even spend more money to glass bed the rifle. I would not have a stainlees rifle like I wanted in the Marlin, but would instead have one heck of a nice looking custom barreled Ruger rifle with a nice Walnut stock that I picked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the help guys

I shot it again today, just at 50 yards. I did not shoot it a lot because i was having so much fun with my 10/22. I noticed that the CCI does not group as good but does not have as many flyers but hornady and federal group better but usually have a flyer. At 50 yards i shot 5 groups and they measured:

With CCI

.405, 5 shot group
.605, 5 shot gorup (without flyer, group measures .405)

With Federal

4 shot group measures .27 (with flyer group measures .85)

With Hordnady

4 shot group measuress .305 (with flyer group measures .505
.545 5 shot group

It seems that the flyers that are still happening are getting closer to the actual group. i still only have about 130 rounds through it so we will see what happens when i get 200-300 rounds through the barrel.

With
 

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I think, after seeing the direction you're going, that it's just a combination of breaking in the barrel and some inconsistancy in the ammo. shoot about 4-500 rounds through it, clean it good, and then try some low to mid-priced target stuff. Wolf MT or Fiochhi 320 or something in that range and I'll bet it will shoot great. As with most target stuff, don't worry about the first 15-20 rounds after cleaning before getting serious.
 

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cz452shooter said:
Um you mentioned wolf mt. Isnt that only .22 ammunition

I have a Marlin .17HMR
:eek: :eek: Sorry, I wasn't paying attention again.... call it a senior moment.
Still think it's not a problem with barrel stress now, as suspected earlier. It seems to be coming around the more you shoot it and stress wouldn't go away from shooting it, unless you got it abnormally hot and maintained it for some time, then cooled it slowly. Not familiar with .17 barrels but when shooting jacketed bullets it shouldn't take as many to break it in as lead .22s, or even copper washed.
 

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Where can I get a tork screw driver to check how I'm torking my barrel screws? I've seen tork wrenches, way too big. Is it a gun specialty prod. or parts house? Where do you start your testing on diff. combos? So many possibility's!!
 

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W H O A ! ! You're right they ain't cheap! I don't think I need one that bad. By the way I'm a Brad too. My nephew couldn't pronounce my name and I keep a few Macaws as pets, he got out Uncle Bird one day instead of U-Brad and it stuck. Any way I would have thought 30-40 bucks would have been high, ****!!!
 
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