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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do any of you guys have any experience good or bad with the Gemtech M4-02 "pirahna" suppressor? I was told by Gemtech that it would be a good choice for double duty with my 10/22 and Ar-15. Any feedback good, bad or indifferent would be appreciated.
-Dave
 

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There is a very large difference with the amount of expandable gases with a .22 lr & a 5.56.
The size of Can on a efficient .22 LR rim-fire and the size of a Can on a 223/5.56 is like night and day.

If you ever shot through a Can on a bolt-action and shot through a Can on 10/22.
You will also HEAR a BIG difference.
All you hear on a bolt action Rim-fire is the snap of the Firing Pin.
On the 10/22 you hear the Slide action and you get some gases/NOISE that Ecapes with the recoil action of a Semi-auto. It's still pretty quiet though but nothing like a Bolt-action .22 Rim.

It's pretty cool though. You can actually hear the - HUMmmmmm -Sub-sonic .22 round as it flys down range with out the crack of that hyper-velosity .22 ammo.

Also: Why Load sub-sonic for your AR ? Your still shooting a .22 cal @ 1000 fps+
Makes much more sense to Build-Up a Match/Comp. accuracy Suppressed, .22 Rim-fire than pump money into a Suppressed AR.

A 40 grn. @ 1000 to 1100 fps is still a .22 cal., 40 grn bullet. no mater what it comes out of.
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Bearcankilla,
What are you going to be using this gun for? If it needs to be silent then Raymond Losli is right and you would be wasting your time puting it on an AR. However, a suppressor on an AR can be a really great experiance.
If Gemtech says it will work it will. Gemtech has a high reputation for building a professional product.
I was fortunate enough to shoot an M4 with a Gemtach M4-96 and an Aimpoint red dot. As soon as I can afford it I am going to SBR my rifle and get the M4-96 mount attached. I expect you could get the M4-96 mount on a 10/22.

Here is a picture of my wife shooting the suppressed M4


Good luck finding the right set up for you.
knifemaker
 

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I have tested/played with a few silencers/suppresors for M16/Ar15's.
Advanced Armerment stands out.
On a .223 its just quites down the round so you dont need ear plugs, there are sub sonic rounds but they are over rated for real use. I would assume the can would work on a .22LR well. I am sure that a .22LR only made can would work better than a .223 can, but a .223 would work fine for both rounds.
 

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Knifemaker said:
Bearcankilla,
What are you going to be using this gun for? If it needs to be silent then Raymond Losli is right and you would be wasting your time puting it on an AR. However, a suppressor on an AR can be a really great experiance.
If Gemtech says it will work it will. Gemtech has a high reputation for building a professional product.
I was fortunate enough to shoot an M4 with a Gemtach M4-96 and an Aimpoint red dot. As soon as I can afford it I am going to SBR my rifle and get the M4-96 mount attached. I expect you could get the M4-96 mount on a 10/22.

Here is a picture of my wife shooting the suppressed M4


Good luck finding the right set up for you.
knifemaker
The size of that can looks like it will be loud (above 100 Db)
 

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It was actually just a little louder than shooting CCI CBshorts from a 20" barrel. None of us would have been wearing ear plugs if there weren't other people shooting (and it wasn't for the range rules).

:D
 

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Hey , knifemaker
Actually That Can on that sweet LITTLE M-4 does not look as large as some I have seen on other AR's.

Did you notice much gas/noise from the Gas operation of the Bolt using non-Sub. rounds in 223/5.56 ???
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I was told by a manufacture that a Suppressor/Can will UP the back pressure slightly.
Which is an advantage on Helping the cycling of Ejection, using Sub-velocity rounds.

Did you notice any extra agressive ejection marks on the Brass using the M-4 with non-Sub rounds. Or notice anything different ???
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Raymond Losli,
You are absolutely correct. There is more back pressure. I didn't notice much gass or noise but some people are bothered by the gass, certainly it will make it so you have to clean the gun more often because of moisture building in the receiver and picking up particles. Also it is not good for shooting in extreem cold. The vapor builds up in the receiver because of the suppressor and when you stop shooting the rifle can freeze up!

Sorry, I haven't looked at the brass or shot subsonic loads.
knifemaker
 

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Ya that a Fact on the DIRTY
That how I came about the Extra Back pressure Knowledge.
I called a manufacture and asked him if all the EXTRA Graduals and Debris that I am seeing in the Bore is normal.
It kicks a bunch more crap back in the bore and Receiver on a Semi-auto.
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
thanks

Thanks for the replies. My objective is really just to quieten both the .223 and .22 down enough that I can shoot til my heart is content without enduring the rath of the wife, and neighbors. I wanted the .223 so that I could shoot lots of rnds cheaply but it is SO LOUD. I am thinking that I should be able to shoot the .22 w/o ear plugs... maybe even the .223.
Thanks again, Great group.
-Dave
 

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Depending on the .22 you are using you should be able to hear the hammer fall and the wine of the bullet going down range. .223 would probably be about the same as the average nail gun. So if the wife wouldn't mind you working with a nail gun out in the shop she probably wouldn't be bothered by a suppressed .223.
 

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A suppressed AR upper even though your not going to be shooting Sub-Sonic I think is still a Good idea.
For a Fact it wont Dirty up the area your hunting in as bad with the BIG Boom, Boom.
Some day on my (soon to come true) Dream AR upper will be NV and Suppressed. & No muzzle flash for the NV. will be sweat.
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have tried an AWC HRT can on the AR that a buddy was kind enought to lend to me and I was pretty impressed with it. The sonic crack is still there but just that just a crack no BOOOM.... I think I can get by without the plugs. I don't really plan to use subsonic rnds with it.. a) they seem to be harder to find than the .22 subs and b) the dealer tells me that he when he sees the occasional keyhole in the can it is usually due to subsonic rnds.. allthough he did say that they were usually reloads.. I have not gotten into reloading yet so I will probably stick with the std mil rnds on the .223 and maybe some subs for the .22, The .22 will be my 10/22 w/boyds blaster and GM 18" special. I will proudly post to the group when I finaly get the can and let you know the results. Man, this turns into obsession pretty quick does't it.
Thanks Again,
Dave
 

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Ya, AR not stable for the sub-sonic .223 rounds is kind of what I am thinking to.
I'm thinking that to be True Sup. on the AR it must be totally Dedicated to shoot Sub sonic.
I got Feeling that you got to change the -Twist-Rate- for Sub-rounds to be truly accurate and fly stable.
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.Yo beercankilla you are thinking what I am thinking also.
I'm in the works right now on a 10/22 Sup.Can I think I will be going out of the Norm. for the Platform to house the Receiver and barrel though.
Not going to go with the Upper-end after-market Stocks for platform. A bell & Carlson would be the Sure-Bet on the Accuracy. Or something that is similar in Quality.
I feel the need to go with / Dixie consolidated on a Custom bull-pup, I don't know why but I got a feeling that with a little work & some help from George Jr. of DC it can be a Kick-*** playToy if I go all out on the Platform it should be quite the looker to.
 

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Shooting the .223 subsonic is not the best idea. It does not work out as well as those rounds that have been tailored to shoot subsonic such as the various whispers (see J.D. Jones website, SSK Industries). The reason for this is case capacity. For instance the .300 whisper will have a full case of powder and still fly subsonic with heavy bullets. You will need a 1 in 8 twist to stabilize the 220 grain bullets in the .300 whisper. Your .223 magazine should feed the .300 whispers parent case with no problems...the .221 fireball is the parent case. So build one upper in .223 and one in .300 whisper and one in....yes it just keeps going and going.

One note of interest..............Coyotes are very confused when you shoot at them through a can at HIGH velocity. The signature of the report is very difficult to locate. After the shot i have had them run right at me. The military has also noted this. The way in which we (and coyotes) locate sound is by triangulating the sound to find the origin. That is why ears are located as far away from one another as possible. When a high velocity round is fired through a can it distorts the signature enough to make it just hard enough to locate. aaahhhh how fun it is.
 
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