Fully bedding the barrel vs bedding the receiver and a little of the barrel +/- pillars.....please help me understand which and when

learning-
Your question is way too wide-open for any one person to answer, without writing a book, which has already been done. Member firemanbob Wrote a book on General accurizing of the 1022.
Your query has basically described the entire journey of five decades of 1022 tweaking and tuning. My recommendation is to read the stickies in the bedding and accurizing areas and decide what level of involvement you want to commit to. I have done everything from aluminum tape bedding, barrel channel bedding, all the way on up to custom pillar bedding jobs with Kidd rear tangs with free floated bull barrels or sporter barrels with pressure pads. In 35 years of accurizing 1022s, I will say that my general recipe is as follows, but there are exceptions:

For a heavier precision target gun, the rifle is pillar bedded with Devcon 10110, second hold down with Devcon anchored & bedded Kidd rear tang, and on most, the barrel is free floated.

For a high accuracy sporter, the recipe is the same as above, but always with a pressure pad in the barrel channel. Position, size, and density of the pressure pad vary based on barrel length and contour, final configuration is determined through much experimentation. I will post a list of bedding threads from projects that I have done, and I will dig up a long explanation post with instructions on how I do a pressure pad. It's up to you to decide how deep you want to delve into this rabbit hole.

DrGunner

My Ultimates

Here are the ones I have kept:

1.) Purple Barracuda/Tactical Machining/Kidd 18"LW

Purple Laminate Barracuda, Pillar & Devcon bedded w/Kidd rear tang.
Tactical Machining a Receiver with integrated rail, retrofitted w/Kidd rear tang.
Kidd 18" Black LW barrel
Kidd Silver bolt
Kidd Black Viton Charging Assembly
Ruger Poly TG with Kidd DI Kit, Kidd extended mag release.
Bench Optic:
Weaver Classic V24 BallisticX on Leupold QRW rings
Offhand Optic: Bushnell TRS 25

Build Thread:

Birthday Present for my Daughter





2.) Applejack Raptor/Ruger/GM 20" Fluted Taper

Applejack Raptor,
Pillar & Devcon bedded w/Kidd rear tang, A683 Watts 3/4” Flange pillar, VQ escutcheon & Devcon 10110
1983 Ruger receiver w Kidd rear tang+ Cerakote
20" GM Fluted Taper with Tactical Innovations M22/50 Brake
Kidd silver bolt
Heier Custom Ruger TG w VQ internals @ 2.5#
Chaser Prototype “Skullie” mag release.
Kidd CH, pins, buffer
Weaver Classic V24 BallisticX on Leupold QRW rings
Offhand Optic: Ultradot 25

Build thread:

My Sons Ultimate PMACA Barrett .50 Clone





3.) Tacsol Vantage/Kidd Classic 18"LW

Tacsol Vantage stock in Forest color, rear tang & pillar bedded w Devcon
Bipod/ Bag rider hrail
Sling w Talon swivels & studs
Kidd receiver pins & bolt buffer
1/4-20 takedown screw
Kidd Classic Rcvr w rear tang 20 MOA rail
Kidd Lt wt 18" .920 barrel
Kidd silver scalloped bolt
Kidd charging rod & spring
Kidd single stage @ .87#
Offhand optic:
Mueller Quickshot
Bench Scope:
Mueller 8.5-25x44AO Tactical scope on Leupold QRW rings, low

Build Thread:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477781[/url

http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Vantage Kidd LW/5E22B8AB-39D1-43CA-BCC4-BBED3924616C-5323-00000D0BB58A9F47_zps5402b911.jpg.html






4.) Blue Raptor/ Kidd Classic 18"LW

PWS Raptor stock, Pillar & Devcon bedded
Sling & studs, Bipod rail
Kidd Classic w rear tang 20 MOA rail
Kidd Scalloped silver bolt
Kidd charging rod & spring
Kidd single stage @ .98#
Kidd 18" black LW barrel
Offhand/Position optic: Ultradot 6 on Warne quick detach rings, low
Benchrest optic:
Weaver Classic V24 BallisticX on Leupold QRW rings

Build Thread:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489351[/url





5.) FAT BOY- Custom BR Eliminator/Kidd Classic 21" Lilja .920

Custom Revolution Eliminator stock with BR forend, butt and plate built by Azguy, pillar and Devcon bedded by me. Brass Ruger Medallion inlaid into pistol grip
Bisley adjustable butt plate
1/4-20 takedown screw
Kidd Classic black rcvr with rear tang 20 MOA rail
Lilja 21" Stainless Match barrel, floated
Kidd receiver pins and buffer
Kidd silver scalloped bolt
Kidd 2 stage trigger w/straight red trigger, 3oz/5oz, custom skullie mag release by Chaser
Heier custom charging handle w/Ruger eagle
Scope: Mueller 8-32x44 Side Focus target scope on Leupold QRW rings, low

Build Thread:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527301[/url







6.) LUXUS APACHE TOMAHAWK/Kidd Supergrade 20" Black SS Fluted .920

Luxus Apache Tomahawk, Exhibition grade Bastogne Walnut, Stock finish, Inletting for Pillar and rear tang by Azguy. Pillar and rear tang bedding by DrGunner.
Morgan adjustable butt pad
Browning Buffalo Nickel Sling & Talon Swivels
Kidd Supergrade rcvr with rear tang, 20 MOA rail
Kidd 20" Black Stainless Steel fluted bull barrel, Nitride Oxidation blackening, threaded to rcvr
Vince Heier Custom Ruger Eagle CH, Kidd charging rod+spring.
Kidd buffer & Recessed Allen screw trigger pins
Kidd scalloped bolt
Kidd 2 stage at 3/6oz
Offhand Optic:
Sightron 6-24x42 Big Sky SIL on Leupold QRWs

Benchrest Optic:
Leupold FXIII 30X
Rings: Warne Maxima High

Build thread:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571238[/url









7.) Silver Kidd Supergrade 18"LW
Red-white-blue laminate stock pillar & rear tang bedded by Tony Kidd. Sightron SII 4-16x42 AO Silver scope on Leupold QRW rings
Red, White & Blue “In God We Trust" Leather sling




8.) Walnut Pharr Clone/Kidd Classic 16.5ULW

Walnut Pharr clone custom stock carved, finished, and pillar/rear tang bedded by azguy
Kidd Classic Receiver
Kidd 16.5” ULW Barrel
Kidd Scalloped Bolt
Kidd Charging Assembly
Kidd Single Stage TG
Bushnell Engage 4-12X SF scope
Leupold QRW Rings

FREE FLOAT VS PRESSURE PAD
Below is a copied post from years ago, explaining the process that I use to determine:

1) Whether a free float vs contact pad is optimal.
2) The best location for the pressure pad.

3) The best size (front to back length) of pad to use.
4) The best material to use for the pad.

Free Float vs Pressure Pad
*ALL TESTING SHOULD BE DONE ON A SOLID BENCH, WITH THE BEST RESTS YOU HAVE AVAILABLE. A Windage top mechanical front rest and rear bag are ideal. Just be sure your setup is stable and consistent. A bipod with no rear bag induces so many variables that you really can’t rely on the groups you get with that setup.
If you have a free float, test shoot it first. Then skip down to the section describing testing with pressure pads.

And if you have contact between the barrel and stock, test shoot it first.

Then to create a free float for testing, put a thin washer or stack some aluminum tape under the front of the receiver surrounding the takedown screw area in order to elevate the front slightly and float the barrel. Then you can test it in that configuration without changing anything.

If it shoots better with the shim under the receiver, then sand out any contact areas in the barrel channel creating enough space for a free float. IMO, a dollar bill space is insufficient. I prefer one or two business cards, depending upon thickness but the rule of thumb I use is one business card for rimfire, two for centerfire. You are not creating space to tame horrendous barrel whip, but the amount that a stock can expand and contract with moisture and the amount of flex present when shooting off a bipod mounted to the foreend can be enough to make a difference.

If it shoots better with contact between the barrel and stock, and the groups are good enough for your purposes, then simply test the rifle with different torque values on the action screw, I will usually work in 2 inch pound increments starting at 12 inch pounds and going up to 24. If groups are better with barrel contact, but still not up to your desired goal, then the next stage of tuning will involve testing barrel contact with a pressure pad. In this case, I start by sanding out the contact areas in the barrel channel. For pressure pad material, I prefer slices of bicycle inner tube, of varying thicknesses- starting with relatively thin material, cut to cradle the bottom of the barrel and coming up the sides to 1/8” shy of the top of the barrel channel. I make four of the same thickness- one of them 1/2 inch long, one 3/4 inches long, one 1 inch long, and one 1.5” long. Work with the one that is .75 inch long, and mark out your barrel channel in 1 inch increments. Start with the pressure pad right at the receiver, test shoot and then move it forward 1 inch, test shoot & then apply, lather, rinse, repeat. Once you find the "sweet spot", try the other length pads at the same spot.

Pick the best of the four, then work forward and back in 1/4" increments to fine tune.

When that's done, you will have found what I nickname the rifle's “G-spot”- as in “Good”. (Shame on all you perverts who thought otherwise.)

Then you just need to experiment with different thickness and density of material before committing and gluing something in place. Once I find the “G spot” and have fine tuned the pad position in 1/4” increments, I then test different pad lengths- I prefer to experiment with different lengths by working in increments of 1/4” longer and shorter than the “best of 4” pad. After that, different thicknesses of material.


I prefer to use thin double sided adhesive tape made by 3M to hold pressure pads in. Glue and epoxy can stiffen the pressure pad and change its properties.

The really thin 3M double-sided sticky tape holds well, is easily removed, and does not harden/denature the rubber of the pressure pad.

It has been my experience that MOST, but not ALL .920/Bull barrels shoot better with a Free Float- which IMO & IME performs best with a rear tang or other rear hold down to achieve optimum results. A front pillar and good bedding job can produce similar results without a rear tang.

As a general rule, those .920 bull barrels that do shoot better with a pressure pad usually perform best with the pressure pad very close, if not right against the takedown area/receiver. It has also been my experience that .920 barrels that do require a pressure pad usually do best with a 1 - 2” pressure pad of relatively firm/dense rubber.

I have free floated many 20-21" .920 barrels weighing 3-4 lb mounted with a slip fit in all manner of receivers and have never seen the "weight of the barrel deform the receiver"...

I have seen droop induced by over tightening the V Block screws- one good remedy to prevent this is to use a Gunsmither Block which creates a straight pull.

It also helps to use a proper inch/lb torque wrench and torque them to 12-20 inch/lb MAX.
I have also seen droop in a rifle that had a sloppy fit between the barrel stub and counterbore in the receiver- the result of an out of spec stub in two cases and counterbore on a receiver twice. I have always been able to remedy that problem with Loctite 603.

My preference is the interference fit provided by the Kidd receivers. I use the heat/cold process and have never had a problem putting one together or taking one apart.

In my experience most Taper/Sporter profile barrel shoot best with a pressure pad, the distance from the receiver varies greatly but as a general rule of thumb-

Most of my heavy tapers and short (16.5-18”) barrels shoot best with a 1-1.5” pad placed 4-6” from the V-block. Most of my longer/ thin tapered barrels (20-24”) do best with a .75-1” pad often very near the end of the barrel channel.

I do not claim this process to be "RIGHT", just what works for me.

There are exceptions to every rule.

Hope this helps-

DrGunner

Bedding

Creating as close to 100% contact between the stock and action as you can get creates significant repeatability from shot to shot because the action does not move in the stock. It also produces repeatability in the position of the action in the stock during repeated disassembly and reassembly cycles of the rifle throughout its lifetime. The pillar and rear tang create two separate fixation points for the action, allowing a 20" 3+ pound .920 inch steel bull barrel to be free floated. This produces superior harmonics which again allows for much more consistent repeatability from shot to shot.

Pillar bedding a stock creates a solid metallic fixation pillar that passes through the wood material of the stock which prevents the fasteners from compressing the wood material of the stock which can deform or compress over time, altering the thickness and density of the stock material which can alter how the material performs with different torque values on the action screws. Using a metal pillar, the same torque on the action screw should produce repeatable and reliable results.

Also- wood will expand in humid conditions and contract in dry conditions. This can significantly affect the contact surface between the action and the stock and also vary the amount of pressure from the action screws. Moisture in the ambient environment can also swell the wood around the barrel, changing contact and altering barrel harmonics. This is why the free float is so desirable, no matter what the wood in the barrel channel is doing below, the barrel will behave as consistently as can be expected in given conditions.

I build my rifles to last (hopefully) a lifetime. I also clean them after every range session. I noticed with some non bedded stocks, the rifle would behave quite differently every time I removed and reinstalled the action. Varying the torque on the action screws can produce good results and most rifles are "tunable" in this regard- but what to do when that rifle that’s always been a great shooter doesn’t dial back in after a breakdown and clean?
Adding pillars and bedding compound reduces many of these variables and produces a consistent shooter that will reliably perform as expected through MANY cycles of disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly. An added benefit is that my bedded rifles are much less sensitive to action screw torque. Whereas before, my non bedded rifles would often perform best at a specific torque value on the action screws, my bedded rifles perform consistently over amuch broader range of action screw torque values.

For many, simply torquing them to my standard specification of “PFT” and call that good.

Hope this helps-

DrGunner

BEDDING THREADS:

Gunnerbedding:

Rear Tang Install:


Raptor Sticky:


Tacsol Vantage Sticky:


Fat Boy:


Tomahawk/Kidd Supergrade:


Barrel Bedding Can Harm Accuracy:



CZ 452 Varmint:


CZ 452 Silhouette:



CZ 452 Varmint & CZ 452 Silhouette Sticky:




DrGunner

I know I spammed you with a ton of info to unpack.
I have a couple questions, as the answers are important in determining what steps you take.

Do you have all of the components gathered, or do you at least know what major parts are going into the build- receiver, barrel, stock?

What is the intended purpose of the rifle?

What type of diet will she be on- what grade/type of ammo will you be shooting?

What distance will you be shooting, for the most part?

What is the minimum accuracy goal you have in mind?

I start every one by simply assembling and shooting it, testing different action screw torque.
Sometimes they do very well right out of the gate.
The first bedding step I will always take is simple aluminum tape. Pillar bedding is sometimes added later after the rifle has aged, and been through multiple range trips, disassembly - cleaning - reassembly cycles, which can tend to loosen the fit of the action in the stock and the wood under the takedown area can become compressed.

DrGunner

DrGunner said:

I start every one by simply assembling and shooting it, testing different action screw torque.
Sometimes they do very well right out of the gate.
The first bedding step I will always take is simple aluminum tape. Pillar bedding is sometimes added later after the rifle has aged, and been through multiple range trips, disassembly - cleaning - reassembly cycles, which can tend to loosen the fit of the action in the stock and the wood under the takedown area can become compressed.

DrGunner

Click to expand...

learning said:

Sorry for the delay in responding.
this is all rather new to me.

I think for this, my first 10/22 build, i would really enjoy a rifle that allows me to shoot paper or steel targets prone, with a rifle scope, at ranges of 50-200 yards.

Click to expand...

Perfect- read the bold, underlined advice in my quoted post ^^^ and work from there, starting with assembly and extensive testing with many types of ammo FIRST. If you're not happy, first step on the bedding road should be aluminum tape. That exercise will teach you what type of fit you're looking for with the action in the stock. You're looking for a nice high contact fit that is not tight or stressed. Understanding what that contact relationship should be will teach you what you want from actual pillar bedding down the road. If you ever do decide to take up actual bedding, look up an article called "Stress Free Pillar Bedding" written by benchrest Gunsmith Richard Franklin on the 6MMBR site.

Pillar bedding at 1022 is seldom absolutely necessary, it's just something that I do to all of mine because I have gunsmith level practice and good results that I'm proud of, coupled with an OCD personality.

YMMV

DrGunner