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i brought home some game the other day and my sister-in-law said that hunting is gross and she would never permit my brother to clean animals at their house. she told me it was wrong to kill innocent animlas (but she eats meat?) for sport and that her son will never go hunting with my bro until he is at least 16 and even then she dobted it. she also went off about guns and how the are good for nothing but killing i started to think a lot bout what she said. i have to agree with her but hear me out... hunting in itself is pretty gross, we take pleasure in killing an animal. think about that, you are taking life. then you tear the skin off pull out the guts decapitate the thing. guns are alo made for the sole purpose of killing. weather it be game or in self defence (the only reasons to kill) then i started thinking about this...i never really took pleasure in killing anything. i would shoot the animal then thank God for the meat in a short prayer. i have a tremenous respect for the animals i kill. sounds strage but really i respect them. they gave their life so i could eat. maybe if my sister-in-law hunted something she would respect the fact that an animal died just so she can eat everytime she goes and buys meat from the local super market. then i started thinking about guns. yes they are devastatingly deadly but i know that beause i hunt and have handled them since i was about 5. if she would let her son learn firearms he would grow up and respect them as i have and know when to use them and what for. if her son could hunt as a youngster he would be able to see all of that rolled into one... the deadly destuction of firearms, the respect everytime he eats an animal he realizes it died just so he can live. i am going out again next weekend and my girlfriend is comming. hope she has learned from me that guns are not evil but a needed tool and life is not something i chose to waste by killing but life is something i resect by killing so we might live. sorry for the long post but just my thoughts.
 

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mwm0816;
Im glad you respect the animals you harvest.
Your sister-in-law has been poisoned by the liberal mentality, going by what you said she said about guns, I would say she lacks knowledge of some of the countrys history, and what guns had to do with it.
People who eat meat, then blast hunting or the process of how meat get to fair - are hypocrites, plain and simple.
 

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imho, your sister in law has a skewed sense of life - much of it enabled by the changes that have come about in the last 100 years or so, brought about by the abundance of cheap energy.

Considering that cheap energy is going by the wayside, many people will be challenged to adjust their perspectives in the next 100 years.

Its because we actually "want" for very little, that people are able to indulge (deceive) themselves on how our society and living should be.

I absolutely agree that since you are more involved in the process of procuring your own food "hunting"..that certainly you are more respectful of how you harvest it and of the life it once was. Yours is a more realistic experience and is closer to "living".

(its always good to think :t )
 

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wellllllllllllllllllll

your sister in law is right and shes dead wrong.in a perfect world we would have no weapons and not hunt. but in this one we do what is bred into our blood, we hunt and we kill. the only differance now is we do it for pleasure mostly.would we still eat if we did not hunt yes we would.would we still kill if guns suddenly disappeared, we sure would.your sister in law wants a safe world w/o guns but she is wrong to think she would be safer , in most cases the opposite is true.prepackaged meat is nice if u have her mentality but dam it is sooooooooo processed.
david
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
danurve said:
mwm0816;
Im glad you respect the animals you harvest.
Your sister-in-law has been poisoned by the liberal mentality, going by what you said she said about guns, I would say she lacks knowledge of some of the countrys history, and what guns had to do with it.
People who eat meat, then blast hunting or the process of how meat get to fair - are hypocrites, plain and simple.
right you are! she comes from canada and was raised by a father and mother who were very much anti-gun and for registering and collectiong guns. too bad she and her dad were not in canada (moved to the USA) after they guns were baned and crime went up. i dont mind canada or canadians just stuipd people. we all tied to talk my brother out of marrying her but he was stubbern and did it anyway now he will never be able to have that father son time in the woods that most of us had cause she is so anti us.
 

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she most definately needs to go see where that steak she's stuffing her face with comes from- hunting is no where near that bad, in my opinion. if i were your brother id be looking for a good divorce attorney, as this woman is not quite right in the head. ;)
 

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How do you defend the killing of an animal we don't eat, ie: crows, prairie dogs, coyote's, etc? I have a sister, that loves guns. She target shoots, and has handguns, for personal safety, but boy she has a problem with shooting animals.
 
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Amen to the meat packing industry being a sad fact. Ever see what happens when they miss with the stun gun or the electro shocker? They hang them up and start skinning anyway! More humane than my harvesting with a rifle? H*** NO!

Worked as a Food Inspector in KS and as a Animal Health Tech in Iowa. The packing industry sucks.

Ill kill, clean, cook, and eat my own food, thanks.

Good shooting,

Rex
 

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Pecci said:
How do you defend the killing of an animal we don't eat, ie: crows, prairie dogs, coyote's, etc? I have a sister, that loves guns. She target shoots, and has handguns, for personal safety, but boy she has a problem with shooting animals.
defend???

generally speaking, crows, pd's, yotes, starlings, house sparrows, et al are species that have become a problem just by either their behavior or sheer numbers. Reducing their numbers by hunting is better than dumping poison into the food chain and definitely more selective.

I don't know of any hunters that wantonly go out and shoot anything that moves.. there is reasoning behind choosing the targets. - despite how peta draws their cartoons, most hunters are NOT frothing drooling shoot em up characters.

If your sister carries for personal protection, then she is already accepting the fact that some lives are worth more under certain circumstances. Not only accepting, but willing to make the selection. And that is with human life. How can she place herself in judgement over others hunting animals?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Pecci said:
How do you defend the killing of an animal we don't eat, ie: crows, prairie dogs, coyote's, etc? I have a sister, that loves guns. She target shoots, and has handguns, for personal safety, but boy she has a problem with shooting animals.
you still respect the animal for giving its life but you kill them as needed. they do more damage than good. those animals hurt human food populations such a nuts, hooved animal and humans. bout broke my leg in a squirrel hole! defend my statment that the animal died so you can live and have a better life.
 

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mwm0816,
I thought I was the only one! I also give a short prayer of thanks and respect for the animal. The mentallity of alot of hunters is that animals are food or fun and nothing else, I on the other hand realise that I take a life whenever i pull the trigger. So that makes me all the more appreciative.
Anyhow, if someone lights into you about the sport just tell them that it's an olypmic sport and lacross was a sport devised by the american indian to teach battle techniques, especially without a weapon and hand to hand combat.
Thanks.
OIS
 

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mwm0816, some more food for thought!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you interested in trying to convince her that she may not be correct in some of her ideas about guns and/or hunting???????
This is kind of a stealth attack. Its best if nothing relating to hunting or guns has been discussed prior to this!!!
1) Start by asking her if she believes herself to be an honest person. Most people will say that they are.
2) Ask her what she thinks is the best way to analyze a problem, to effectively solve it. A) Use logic and verifiable facts to solve the problem or B) use emotionalism to solve the problem. Most people will choose logic and facts!
The stealth part is over. Ask her if she remembers how she feels about hunting/guns. Apply what she just told you in questions 1 and 2 to your discussion regarding guns/hunting. The idea here is not to beat her up but to get her to honestly think about what she is saying and why she is saying it, to remove the emotionalism from the discussion, or more likely she is parroting/repeating what she has been told so many times that she now believes it to be the truth. :mad:
***Points to think about A) Which animal dies a more "humane" death?? An animal being forced onto the killing floor with electric shock prods. Its been hearing the other animals that preceded it, not to mention the smell of blood and offal. Or B) The animal in its natural setting that is suddenly hit by a bullet or an arrow. Either bullet or arrow properly placed should result in a dead animal in under a minute. Sometimes instantly!
***Which food is healthier?? Raised for slaughter animals or wild animals? Raised for slaughter animals typically have: a) growth hormones, b) steroids, c) anti-biotics added to their feed, and are not cholesterol free. Wild animals don't have a, b, or c and deer are essentially cholesterol free.
***If you eat meat you are responsible for the death of animals. You may not have killed that animal personally but through the ecconomic chain you paid someone to kill it for you, as well as raise it, butcher it, and wrap it up in a nice neat little package with a price per pound. Even a vegetarian is responsible for the death of animals. How many animals die as a result of the various agricultural processes, mining, oil & gas (Exxon Valdez ring a bell??) Do you heat or air-condition your home, refer to Exxon Valdez.
***Prairre dog are a reservoir for bubonic plague.
***Starlings/sparrows compete with and displace native songbirds
Regarding guns...........
***Would you just stand there and watch or run-away while some deranged person beat to death another person??????????
***Would you willingly submit to a rapist?????????????
And the list goes on and on. Hope this helps. God Bless, Frank.
 

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Rex M said:
Amen to the meat packing industry being a sad fact. Ever see what happens when they miss with the stun gun or the electro shocker? They hang them up and start skinning anyway! More humane than my harvesting with a rifle? H*** NO!

Worked as a Food Inspector in KS and as a Animal Health Tech in Iowa. The packing industry sucks.

Ill kill, clean, cook, and eat my own food, thanks.

Good shooting,

Rex
Skinning a live animal? Seems a like it would be pretty difficult. You worked on the kill floor alot? Sure that it wasn't nerve activity? I don't have a problem with Kosher slaughter or non Kosher. But the alive part seems a far fetched as does the in-humane part. I still maintain that far more game, killed primarily for pleasure (unless your a subsistence hunter), dies a drawn out death after being wounded than domestic cattle slaughtered in plants. This hyper-sensitivity stuff towards animal death is bad thing to have and support if your livelihood or hobby hinges upon just that.
 
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Yep, I worked the kill floor on both jobs. And yep, they're still alive if they squirm out of range and never get hit with the electroshocker. Was worse in the John Morrel Hog plant in Iowa, there they would just chain up the missed ones and stick them. Same with the first cow I saw missed with the bolt gun, they just loop chains on them, hoist them up, and stick them. Essentially, they bleed to death. Missed the "knock out" affect completely. The skinning rail starts less than thirty yards down the line from the kill pen, so the back legs were started to be skined before they bled out. After you have been down in the kill pen long enough you get desensitised. I saw a couple of hogs that were hoisted alive on purpose. The kill pen workers were playing games with the guys on the skinning rail. Dog gone, i did not want to be the one trying to skin that cow that was picked up! When the hog line runs 900 an hour, and the beef plant runs 5000 a day, the chain is moving so fast that processes, such as bleeding out, are not completed before other processes start. There is nothing humane about it. And no it is not nerves, nerves are natural unless you take out the cerebral cortex in one blow. I have seen "nervy" hogs flop off the chains after being electroshocked and knifed and start running down the aisle! The process just doesnt work.

Sometimes it is a heck of a rodeo down there when a cow jumps out of the kill pen and takes of running down the line. They basically rope them with chains. I never did see the "back up" stun gunner ever get one, he just shot the bolts into the neck or shoulders and make things worse.

Kosher is worse. And chicken plants worse of all. Some of them are beaked, plucked, wings clipped, and all before they are ever beheaded. And those plants run a million birds a day! Nothing humane about that at all. The really sad part is the US is the best in the world. Dont get me started on what is done in SE Asia or Mexico.

I grew up on a ranch where we processed our own beef and pork. My dad had a home butcher shop where we did other folks deer, and I worked in a private butcher shop in town for three years before my stint with the USDA. I know it can be done humanely, just not in an automated format.

So, I will double lung my deer and watch him expire without any sense of pain or excitement. If you can take out lungs and the heart without causing an adrenaline rush, blood pressure drops below the critical level quickly and they pass out. They die a bit later. But they pass out quickly. Its the most humane way of harvesting animals.

And no, I dont work for APHIS or FSIS anymore. I am a biologist now. Yeah!!!

Good shooting,

Rex

PS. I guess it comes down to respect. I feel like we owe the animals a more humane death than they are getting at the factory. They are giving us nourishment for our own lives after all.
 

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So you've been to a kill floor in Mexican plants? I have in one plant in Juarez, Chihuahua. I've never seen one missed while I was there. I was there with a Mexican guy that I knew who had cattle slaughtered there. They were stunning by hand and not by automation. Even with your "horrific" account, I'll enjoy beef, pork, and chicken without losing even a wink of sleep. It sounds like cheap, plentiful meat (fast killing) comes with an 'ethical' price for some. I am more than willing to pay it. I can guarantee you this, when groups like PETA and HSUS are successful against industry giants in the packing business. It won't be long before their successes against a weaker target, hunting, begin to appear. It's a hang together, or we shall certainly be hung seperately situation.
 

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Killing is a fact of life. The whole food chain deal. Humans aren't supposed to be so squeamish that they couldn't kill their own meals, otherwise, there wouldn't be a human race. People in the modern world have gotten soft and detached from reality because of the conveniences of life. We'd all die without purified water, the grocery store, and air conditioning. How long have things been like this, comparitively speaking? Only a few dozen years, before that it was sweat, grow a crop, kill a steer or slaughte a hog, wring a chickens neck and go gather some eggs, take a bath in the creek and pull up water from the well at 4am after using the outdoor toilet. People NEED badly to hunt and kill and gut and skin animals to connect to reality. If one cannot do that, then at least grow a vegetable garden, so you can perceive the realities of survival. Man made it for many thousands of years without getting all wiggly in the stomach at the sight of a little blood and intestines.

Now at the same time, animal cruelty isn't necessary. Some idiots beat their pets, torture captive animals, etc. That is far far different from hunting, fishing, or farming to raise meat, and should be universally condemned. Nothing wrong with killing varmints and pests, such as mice, rats, prairie dogs, ground squirrels, etc. It's no different than spraying insects to keep them from devouring your food crop before it gets to your plate. Anyone with common sense should be able to differentiate from pest removal, food harvesting/killing, and sheer brutality of animal abuse. There are sociopaths and criminals in every walk of life who delight in vicious hatred and wrongdoing. Their crimes shouldn't bring down condemnation on all of us. Get them punished or removed as they should be, promptly, for the sake of everybody. :eek:
 
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