Evolution if any of Win 52 barrels for accuracy

I also believe advances in ammunition likely played a large role in the improvements, and testing older rifles with modern ammunition is always interesting, but remember to not lose sight of the intimate relationship between ammunition and chamber/rifling configuration, something with which many here, particularly the BR crowd, continue to tweak and experiment.

Winchester knew what it was doing, having at its disposal the best of the best for research and development. I think we must assume Winchester designed and manufactured its rifles and ammunition to maximize accuracy and performance of its products, first and foremost. So, while most of the rifles remain in largely fine shooting condition today, the ammunition painstakingly designed and made to perform in those rifles is long gone, making it impossible to gauge performance against modern ammunition in modern rifles.

Looking at those 200-yard average groups, it doesn't seem to me there have been leaps and bounds of improvement in accuracy with more modern rifles and ammunition. Rifles shooting those 1.25" 200-yard groups would have been averaging less than .3125" at 50 yards...with 10-shot groups, no less. I'm pretty sure none of my rifles have ever done that well, even with the best Eley or Lapau ammunition...well, maybe one in the last 20 years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, many in the BR community use a chamber made for a specific, currently produced ammunition. The vintage 52 chambers may or may not perform with ammunition made for modern chambers, so, who knows whether or not modern barrels and/or rifles are "better" than the vintage ones?

Food for thought,

TBR

TEDDY BEAR RAT said:

I also believe advances in ammunition likely played a large role in the improvements, and testing older rifles with modern ammunition is always interesting, but remember to not lose sight of the intimate relationship between ammunition and chamber/rifling configuration, something with which many here, particularly the BR crowd, continue to tweak and experiment.

Winchester knew what it was doing, having at its disposal the best of the best for research and development. I think we must assume Winchester designed and manufactured its rifles and ammunition to maximize accuracy and performance of its products, first and foremost. So, while most of the rifles remain in largely fine shooting condition today, the ammunition painstakingly designed and made to perform in those rifles is long gone, making it impossible to gauge performance against modern ammunition in modern rifles.

Looking at those 200-yard average groups, it doesn't seem to me there have been leaps and bounds of improvement in accuracy with more modern rifles and ammunition. Rifles shooting those 1.25" 200-yard groups would have been averaging less than .3125" at 50 yards...with 10-shot groups, no less. I'm pretty sure none of my rifles have ever done that well, even with the best Eley or Lapau ammunition...well, maybe one in the last 20 years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, many in the BR community use a chamber made for a specific, currently produced ammunition. The vintage 52 chambers may or may not perform with ammunition made for modern chambers, so, who knows whether or not modern barrels and/or rifles are "better" than the vintage ones?

Food for thought,

TBR

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I think we can disassociate what the Bench crowd is doing today in the quest for ultimate accuracy from what the 1930s Winchester people did. Today we have some outstanding ammunition but the rifles lack the detail hand work by Master craftsmen that was applied to the top of the line rifles of the day. To be fair of course they used the same basics tuning to their own ammunition and vice versa but I am a firm believer that they could massage a few tenths extra with some loving care.

As proof look at the Skip Line and other Custom Shop 40x repeaters that the lucky owners are shooting sub half inch groups at 100 yds. Remington had a couple of guys who flatassed knew what they were doing.

I have at least two 52s that will shoot quarter inch or less at 50, I do not have an adequate supply of ammo to test at any farther range and my shooting club has poor wind characteristics for those ranges also. I would hate to toss $20 a box ammo away under any but near perfect condition.

Popular story from the 70s regarding craftsmen: The WWII German Daimler Benz crankshafts were nearly perfectly balanced in the aircraft engines powering the Luftwaffe. It was said that they were so finely balanced that the results were not able to be duplicated with the machinery available at the time. The Germans were hand building incredibly well made engines and that was probably one of their mistakes. Automation may not have produced such a fine product but they could have increased quantities which we all know have their own quality.