Does anyone find their 57M Varmint 22 LR "touchy" to shoot ?

1604 Views 21 Replies 14 Participants Last post by TractorMan02, 5 mo ago

huntschool

Discussion Starter · 7 mo ago

Here I am again with a question: Do any of you who shoot a Coper 57M Varmint (Wilson barrel) find the gun to be very "touchy" meaning how much shoulder or grip force you use for each shot. It seems the gun likes a bit of shoulder contact. I can keep the groups under .6 OTO/.4 CTC and some even better (best is .385 OTO .165 CTC) However, it is a struggle to keep the group there. This is with Center X ammo.

I am shooting off a front bag and a back bag with an excellent 6oz Jard trigger that I am very comfortable with. It seems even the slightest variation in "pressure/hold" in the butt stock changes my point of impact in what I call notable amount. I am not/ nor do I want to be headed to a heavily mechanical front rest. I plan on putting a Pic. rail on the forearm and using an Atlas BT65 bipod.

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

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Thomasconnor

· #2 · 7 mo ago

You say you're shooting with a front bag.

If you were using a front rest you would have the rifle in the same position every time, and lean into it with the same amount of pressure every time (or even free-recoil) as there's a front stop.

With a front bag you can't do either of those so you are challenging yourself, which I applaud.

The more sophisticated the equipment gets, the more the human element is removed...Tom

huntschool

Discussion Starter · #3 · 7 mo ago

Thomasconnor said:
You say you're shooting with a front bag.

If you were using a front rest you would have the rifle in the same position every time, and lean into it with the same amount of pressure every time (or even free-recoil) as there's a front stop.

With a front bag you can't do either of those so you are challenging yourself, which I applaud.

The more sophisticated the equipment gets, the more the human element is removed...Tom

Thomasconnor: Agreed. Thats the problem. Its me and I know it. I just wondered if anyone else has had the same experience as I feel like the gun is "over sensitive" if you will.

Litl_Red

· #4 · 7 mo ago

There are two things that matter significantly when it comes to your rifle support, positioning and resistance. The positioning is self-explanatory, while resistance is actually what you're talking about: shoulder pressure etc

My CZ has been insane about resistance. My Caldwell front rests have a number of ways to "fit" the rifle's fore end with different bags or "pinchers". And I've got suede front bags that have grip and are fitted to the Caldwell. So it's quite easy to lock the CZ in up front. It turns out the CZ responds erratically to high resistance. Plus locking in often makes the rest's front stop hard to use.

It took me quite a lot of time to discover that using teflon tape between the front bag and fore end gave lots more groups without flyers and reliable sight settings. The tape makes the fore end stop repeatably usable. And apparently the tape makes it easier to get the same recoil resistance shot-to-shot.

Back in the day a lot of benchresters used talcum powder to get uniform resistance. The tape is oblivious to humidity which isn't the case with the powder I found.

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horseman2

· #5 · 7 mo ago

Sensitivity to shoulder pressure and cheek to stock contact are along a similar vein.
For cheek contact, let your beard grow out for 3-4 days.
On game day, when you feel your whiskers touch the stock that becomes your sensitivity level.
Trying to replicate that to shoulder pressure is almost impossible. With changing seasons, so does what we are wearing. Only will that happen when hooting without a shirt and growing whiskers on your shoulder.
Good luck with that . . . far simpler to blame the ammuntion!

huntschool

Discussion Starter · #6 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

horseman2 said:
Sensitivity to shoulder pressure and cheek to stock contact are along a similar vein.
For cheek contact, let your beard grow out for 3-4 days.
On game day, when you feel your whiskers touch the stock that becomes your sensitivity level.
Trying to replicate that to shoulder pressure is almost impossible. With changing seasons, so does what we are wearing. Only will that happen when hooting without a shirt and growing whiskers on your shoulder.
Good luck with that . . . far simpler to blame the ammunition!

horseman2: You are correct. I do think that when I get the bipod on the gun some of this may go away as I can "load" into the bipod. I like the beard comment. I do in fact have a slight beard and stash and know "the feel" if you will. I also think I may need to do some scope work as it pertains to eye relief and comb height.

Its not the ammo I assure you and I will not blame it.

BobSc

· #7 · 7 mo ago

Would action screw torque have anything to do with this condition and has anyone tried adjusting the actions screws to see if it would make a difference? Perhaps a bedding issue? Just curious....

huntschool

Discussion Starter · #8 · 7 mo ago

Worked hard on hold yesterday. Found out several things on what to do and what doesn't work. Strangely (not) it amounted to returning to my early (read 1950's) training with a youth marksmanship group. I remember one of the instructors telling me, "get behind the gun son" and that seems to be what I need to do. By doing so I was able to get and maintain shoulder contact and thus "load" the rifle on the rests without over exerting pressure in the wrong directions. Seems problem is understood. Now I need to practice the fix.

Shot some 50-yard targets with Eley Edge. Seven targets, which I did what I should, gave me a CTC average of .329. Whenever I altered the procedure to try something else the target went to crap.

Thanks to all for looking and responding.

Reactions: 2

HUSHKABOOM

· #9 · 7 mo ago

I would be real happy with that average.

huntschool

Discussion Starter · #10 · 7 mo ago

HUSHKABOOM said:
I would be real happy with that average.

HUSHKABOOM: Thanks, I am. My enlightenment came from 64 years ago... Did not know I could remember that far back. Now its regimented practice. Just got an order of Center X and SK Rifle Match in so I can o=practice a bit more. However, the Eley Edge shot pretty good and I have a pretty good stash on hand so I may stay with that.

skwerl457

· #11 · 7 mo ago

I shoot a Montana Varminter with an M-POD mounted
front and good heavy bag rear , once she's set it takes
a lot of pressure any where to disrupt a shot.
... skwerl

chinaski

· #12 · 7 mo ago

I picked up a 57M sporter this past year and found the same to be true, it likes a preloaded bipod, me behind it and holding the rifle with some pull back to the shoulder. I've tried a front rest with a few different bag set ups and positions, free recoil, pinch trigger, 2 finger grip pull back, etc, etc. Never got anything close to what I thought the rifle was capable of. I've had a few rifles like this in the past and this 57M is like those, a Harris bipod, rear bag and prone. With both Center-X and SK Rifle Match I was able to get 5 shot groups in the low 3s over flags, knowing that it'll shot the 2 lots of those I've squirreled them away and plink and practice with TAC, not the same accuracy and a few fliers but is perfectly acceptable for leisurely shooting.

Here's an old article to bipod prone shooting that I found helpful years ago and is pretty much the technique I use and have since first reading it over 10 years ago.

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www.accurateshooter.com

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huntschool

Discussion Starter · #13 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

skwerl457 said:
I shoot a Montana Varminter with an M-POD mounted
front and good heavy bag rear , once she's set it takes
a lot of pressure any where to disrupt a shot.
... skwerl

Thanks. That sounds like a good setup.

chinaski said:
I picked up a 57M sporter this past year and found the same to be true, it likes a preloaded bipod, me behind it and holding the rifle with some pull back to the shoulder. I've tried a front rest with a few different bag set ups and positions, free recoil, pinch trigger, 2 finger grip pull back, etc, etc. Never got anything close to what I thought the rifle was capable of. I've had a few rifles like this in the past and this 57M is like those, a Harris bipod, rear bag and prone. With both Center-X and SK Rifle Match I was able to get 5 shot groups in the low 3s over flags, knowing that it'll shot the 2 lots of those I've squirreled them away and plink and practice with TAC, not the same accuracy and a few fliers but is perfectly acceptable for leisurely shooting.

Here's an old article to bipod prone shooting that I found helpful years ago and is pretty much the technique I use and have since first reading it over 10 years ago.

You are being redirected...

www.accurateshooter.com

Yes, this gun wants to be "cuddled and hugged" even on bags. It will be getting a Pic rail up front so I can use an Atlas bipod. For now, I am content to develop a good "physical relationship" with it. I know it can shoot..... Fact is, I think these guns are a good bit under rated for competition even with the Wilson barrel that is on mine. Their trigger, as is, from Coper is not at a good target weight but I fixed that with an 6oz Jard. I now think I want to go down to 4oz.

Thanks for the article. Says a lot.

WindShooter

· #14 · 6 mo ago

Who wants a touchy, hold sensitive gun? Get rid of them. PM me, I’m happy to help. LOL

Would love to own an LVT. I don’t even mind the vents in the stock.

NVaVettes

· #15 · 6 mo ago

Isn't the fundamental problem with a 'highly sensitive' rifle, of which I have at least one, is that it needs to be bedded and maybe even pillared into its stock?

And / or a more rigid stock?

huntschool

Discussion Starter · #16 · 6 mo ago

NVaVettes said:
Isn't the fundamental problem with a 'highly sensitive' rifle, of which I have at least one, is that it needs to be bedded and maybe even pillared into its stock?

And / or a more rigid stock?

NVaVettes: The stock is rigid as is, however I may get it pillared as an afterthought. Still a work in progress.
Thanks for your interest

jcolville

· #17 · 6 mo ago

mine didnt shoot as well as i thought it should. for the money that they get i felt moa would be better. my anni 64 shoots better

huntschool

Discussion Starter · #18 · 6 mo ago

jcolville said:
mine didnt shoot as well as i thought it should. for the money that they get i felt moa would be better. my anni 64 shoots better

Mine has shot well when I do my part. It has taken some "getting acquainted time" as to shoulder pressure and "load" on the front as well as a new trigger and checking ammo. I now have it shooting mostly down into the .3's and even the occasional .2's at 50. Still more work needed on my part.

It has been a process and continues as such with the performance mostly based on me executing correctly.

Sorry yours did not come up to your expectations.

Donnie Powell

· #19 · 6 mo ago

If the front bag is packed to hard that can cause problems.

Ehouse923

· #20 · 5 mo ago

Mine isn’t sensitive at all. It very consistently shoots 4” groups at 50 yards regardless of how I hold it

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