[rain164845]

My apartment building has a clause in the lease prohibiting firearms. Since this goes against constitutional law, does contractual or constitutional law apply? They're after someone in the building shooting paintball guns and I'm afraid they might run across my rimfire and airgun. Thanks,
Joe

 

[Coyote]

Joe

With the clause in the lease - prohibiting firearms - is only in the building. They are not telling you that you cannot own a weapon; they just cannot be in the apt. that you are leasing. If you knew that you could not have them in the building and signed the lease anyhow, you could loose your lease for having them there. It’s not the ownership of the weapons that is being questioned and they are not asked you to give up ownership of any weapons……….they are just stating that no weapons can be on their property, which is the apt., that you are leasing. (No one from the building, owner of the building or anyone else can take the guns away from you.)

 

[2945]

you could loose your lease and deposit(s)
i doubt they could take the guns, just dont let em know that you have em, be discreet. keep em in the back of a closet in a case or something

 

[George S]

I think that apartment owners do have the right to enter the apartment units with some form of notification. Should the owner or manager want to come in, you would have to have your weapons completely out of sight. Storing in a dresser, cabinet or other type of personal prpoerty should be safe. The owner/manager may be able to look in closets or stoage areas.

Check your lease to see what it says about inspections by the owner or manager and when they can be done and with what kind of notice.

You should be very careful to make sure they do not see you carrying any weapons in or out of your apartment. You might wish to consult with an attorney to see if you can break the lease if you do not wish to store your weapons elsewhere.

 

[Fumbler]

My girlfriend's roommate used to live in an apartment complex where she had to sign that agreement.
They have the right to prohibit guns because it is their property that you are on.
You have the right to choose to live there or not (but must obey the agreements).

What I have heard though is that those clauses only apply to the buildings and storing your guns in your car (in a legal way depending on what state laws are) is fine.

 

[gmcfixer]

I agree with Coyote. I would have to say that if someone told me that was part of the lease agreement I would walk out right then. Who knows what other kind of chicken poop they will come up with? Best bet is stash em in your car or at a friends house till stuff blows over and find a better place to live!

Dave Z.

 

[knitepoet]

I've got to agree with what has been said above.
Let us know how it turns out.
Good Luck!!
Paul

 

[147]

You might want to ask the NRA about it. Any situation where you are signing away a constitutional right gets into touchy territory.

What if the landlord was asking you to sign away your right to a jury trial? Or your right to express yourself or had a clause prohibiting the practice of any religion in the building. How about having a particular skin color? I think the prohibition of guns on the premises is in the same category as prohibiting people of a particular race or creed from renting. You have a right to bear arms. Although you are on the landlords property there are limits on the conditions they can enforce. In essence they are discriminating against gun owners - not necessarily the folks you think about as a protected class but a class worth protecting.

Another approach is to talk to the landlord about the clause. Every landlord I have worked with is willing to modify standard agreements to fit particular tenants requirements if the modification is reasonable and doesn't put them at risk.

 

[1747]

First off, I wouldn't move into such a place. Now if your already in this situation then discover the fact of such an agreement, I would wonder why it was not made clear upon time of signature. If you simply wanted to "sign here" for a place to live, it's your own fault, pardon the bluntness. If you're on a lease with some time, your only option is to ride it out, then move. If your time is up, friggin move already, whats the problem.

 

[rain164845]

What if the landlord was asking you to sign away your right to a jury trial? Or your right to express yourself or had a clause prohibiting the practice of any religion in the building. How about having a particular skin color? I think the prohibition of guns on the premises is in the same category as prohibiting people of a particular race or creed from renting. You have a right to bear arms. Although you are on the landlords property there are limits on the conditions they can enforce. In essence they are discriminating against gun owners - not necessarily the folks you think about as a protected class but a class worth protecting.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. When you lease a piece of property, you own the inside up to the outer walls until the contract is terminated. If it is mine, why should I sign away a constitutional right to live there? I plan asking my International Business Law professor about it since he's a big shot lawyer.
Joe

 

[Elkein]

You could politely explain that the paintball gun they are searching out is not a firearm, (neither for that matter is your airgun.) They have no right to perform search and seizure of items not expressly signed for in their contract.

 

[knitepoet]

You might want to ask the NRA about it. Any situation where you are signing away a constitutional right gets into touchy territory.

What if the landlord was asking you to sign away your right to a jury trial? <snip>

Brookie,
That's a common practice. If you read the fine print in a majority of insurance contracts, they have a binding arbitration clause prohibiting you from taking them to court.
There was a spot on the local news recently where a couple had their lawyer draw up a clause restoring the right to a court action unless the ins company responded denying it. They sent it in with their premium check. The court ruled that since the ins co cashed the check and did not respond, that clause was effectively added to their policy. They sued the ins co over something they refused to pay and they WON.
Paul

 

[knitepoet]

This is pretty much what I was thinking. When you lease a piece of property, you own the inside up to the outer walls until the contract is terminated.
Joe

Joe,
when you LEASE you don't own ANYTHING (except for your personal belongings.)
All a lease is is a permit to use.
Here's the readers digest condensed, non lawyer-eze version of just about ANY lease agreement, "In return for me paying you "X", I get the use of "Y" until such time as either of us see fit to terminate this agreement"
Paul

 

[rain164845]

From M-W.com (webster's dictionary) lease- a contract by which one conveys real estate, equipment, or facilities for a specified term and for a specified rent; also : the act of such conveyance or the term for which it is made
convey- d : to transfer or deliver to another especially by a sealed writing e : to cause to pass from one place or person to another

So when it is conveyed, ownership is obtained. This is how it was described in my Real Estate class last week.
Joe

 

[The Shootist]

Anumber of things....

1. In most states a landlord may not enter a rental unit without first giving AT LEAST 24hr advance notice. The landlord also is limited from entering when you are not present.

2. In civics class, 20 some odd years ago, I was taught that a contract which asks you to sign away a constitutional right is at that time null and void.

3. It is federal law (one of Clintons gun laws in fact... 94' 96' ?) that no device which propells a projectile via compressed gas or spring energy may be considered a firearm.

Yes you DO have temporary ownership of rental property, and I would love to see pecedent set in such a case. Public housing residents have been sucessfully prohibited from keeping guns, but they also live on public not-for-proffit property, at taxpayers expense.

 

[knitepoet]

Courtesy of the American Heritage online dictionary
Lease:1a)A contract granting use or occupation of property during a specified period in exchange for a specified rent.

Try and get home OWNERS insurance on a leased apartment. Unless you are the actual property owner, IE landlord, All you will be able to get is "renters insurance" which will cover your personal belongings and possibly somewhere for you to stay in the event that your apartment become uninhabitable.
Paul

 

[The Shootist]

Insurance terminology is industry specific, and little meaning in a real world legal discussion.

You can't get Home Owner's insurance on a rental for the same reason you can't get Life insurance on you neighbor's wife. You don't own it, but a rental is your "Home" and therefore gives you the same privacy rights as if you did own it.

Have any of you concidered that a landlord forbidding you to own a gun is essentially taking full legal responsibility for you safety while you are at home? If he REQUIRES you to forfeit your means of self protection, there may well be a liability issue against him.

 

[knitepoet]

<snip>
Have any of you concidered that a landlord forbidding you to own a gun is essentially taking full legal responsibility for you safety while you are at home? If he REQUIRES you to forfeit your means of self protection, there may well be a liability issue against him.

hmmmmmm VERRRrrrrrrrry intresting
I hadn't thought about that. I'd be intrested in what a lawyer would have to say about it.

Paul

 

[rain164845]

tomorrow I'll be going by

and asking the law guy his opinion of the matter. Should be interesting all the way around. I'll let you guys know what he has to say.
Joe

 

[Coyote]

Have any of you concidered that a landlord forbidding you to own a gun is essentially taking full legal responsibility for you safety while you are at home? If he REQUIRES you to forfeit your means of self protection, there may well be a liability issue against him.

I think one point may be missed here. When you lease/rent a home or an apt. You are told of the lease agreement and what is contained in that lease agreement. If you do not like it, if you disagree with it, you do not have to lease it. By signing the agreement, your taking the reasonability of knowing the declaration in the lease that you cannot have firearms in that building. No one is influencing or forcing you too lease something when you are in disagreement with the lease. The landlord would not be taking any responsibility for your safety. The arguement would be: locks on door, security systems, ect. I am sure those would all be acceptable in place of weapons.

Do not get me wrong. I have weapons in my home. But I own the home. Therefore, it my choice, not my landlords.