Rimfire Central Firearm Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all-

I have installed a VQ bedding kit. It came with 2 different "pads". My understanding of "free floated" is that you should be able to run a piece of paper the full length ot the barrel, between it and the stock, with no hang-ups. However, with this kit installed, there is a slight vertical wobble in the barrel. This can't be good! Why would pads be included with the kit if everything is supposed to be "free floated"? I installed the thinner pad while at an indoor range today (50 ft), and groups were where they should be with the pad, but 50ft is no where near the distance I'd like it to shoot tightly at. I get the feeling that Bughole Tuners are going to be brought up, and these may work fine, but it seems as though one needs a drill press to install it correctly. Correct?? And if these tuners or pads are the answer, why is everyone always talking about FREE FLOATING their barrel?

Confused as ever,
Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,556 Posts
Free floating is to make sure there isn't any random touching goin' on. Personally, I don't think the term "piece of paper" is adequate. I like more air. wooden stocks have a tendency to squirm around like your girl friend when you bite her neck if the humidity changes. YOU are controlling things to YOUR liking with the pads or the bughole. a non floated stock will maybe or maybe not touch..leaving you no control over tuning it.

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
But what about the rocking of the barrel? It moves a good 1/8" where the barrel meets the end of the stock, without the supplied pad in place. I have a Fajen thumbhole stock. I noticed also that there is a hump in the stock about 2" in from the end...... should I remove this hump?? ****... somebody is going to get a great deal on a maxed-out 10/22 if I can't get a grip on the bedding theory!

Thanks, man...

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,556 Posts
It is hard to judge when we are talkin on keyboards. Don't know how much pressure you are putting on the thing to get it to flex. I'd suggest that you put one finger on the rear of the action right where it and the stock come together so you are touching both pieces....then try to flex it. If you are feeling any movement between them at that point, then I would say you have a problem. if you can feel any movement there, then the action needs bedded or worse yet, it needs bedded correctly, because if you are getting movement at that point, it means the action is rocking at the takedown screw point.

If it is stable there, it is possible that the flex is coming from the forearm itself. Of course, depending on how hard you are horsing it, you could conceiveably even be flexing the barrel. With no idea of how much pressure you are using, it's darn hard to say.

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Can you tell where the wobble ic coming from? Doe the barrel wobble where it meets the receiver, without the receiver moving? Does the entire barreled action wobble in the stock?

This might help nail down where the problem starts. If your entire action wobbles then the bedding needs some work. If the barrel is not tightly fitted to the receiver, don't try to fire the rifle until you get that fixed. If the wobble is just barrel flex then I suspect everything is all right but you'll need to add a little support somewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, Antlurz-

I used your "finger on area between rear of action and stock" test, and yes, it does move. There is rocking where the action screw is. The VQ bedding kit I installed is drilled to the full depth of the drill bit supplied. Do I need to countersink it just a bit more? Or would it be better to add a little material to the rear of where the action meets the stock? Since I have nothing available as far as bondo or anything, I would rather set the bedding pillar a little deeper. Will that solve the problem?

Thanks everyone!
Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
Howdy hondovlx600,

I noticed also that there is a hump in the stock about 2" in from the end...... should I remove this hump??
I would have to define 'The hump' as a stock designer feature. It allows you to hog out the barrel channel with in inches of muzzle end of the forestock. Then trim for an even gap between the forestock end and the barrel. Also a good place for a'Bughole Tuner.' I have the same stock, the barrel channel between the rcvr and the hump is +.080" clearance under the barrel & .035" gap between forestock top edge and barrel . At the hump, the barrel clears by .035".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi 38super-

[the barrel channel between the rcvr and the hump is +.080" clearance. At the hump, the barrel clears by .035"]

Do you mean there is .080" clearance at the receiver end of the barrel, and .035" at the "hump"? Do you use flexible feeler gauges to determine this?

I don't know how to achieve this result. Like I said, my action rocks slightly at the action screw (up and down). If I install the VQ rubber pad under the barrel before tightening it down, it takes the "rocking" out, but I'm sure this is not the proper way to correct the problem. A Bughole Tuner would achieve the same incorrect "fix". I would still like to install one, but not until I fix the stuff that's wrong.

Without the pad installed near the "hump", if I put slight upward pressure on the barrel (which rocks the action upwards in the front) I can slip a piece of paper between the barrel and stock. However, if I don't lift up on the barrel, I cannot begin to slip a piece of paper between them. Can't even get it started.

Any of you live near Orlando, FL so we can meet and take a look at this together? Any gun shop I've posed these types of questions to results in a "What do you mean by bedding" type of question as an answer. No help at all!

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,556 Posts
Brian...

What you have proposed will "mask" the problem, and you might even get a substantial improvement (a fairly sure bet) in groups, however it doesn't actually remedy the problem, it just hides it.

You are now at the point you need to make a decision. IF you are really trying to get the most out of the rifle, you should consider bedding it. You don't need a high dollar bedding kit to do it. a childs clay kit, and a $4 package of JB Weld will get you the makin's for an A1 bedding job.

Guess it all boils down to how "perfect" you want it to be. My guess is, since you have already put the VQ kit in it, you really would like to get it the best you can....and yes, setting it a bit deeper in the stock would help. but there again, it's not the total fix that some would like to believe.

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Brian,

I'll phrase it all a little diffrently. "Free Floating" a bbl has long been a trick to improve shooting. A bbl vibrates every time its shot. By floating, you remove any unwanted inconsistant affects on this vibration. The pressure pad is a controlled (by you) method of limiting this vibration. The pad is simply the next step. The "Bug Hole Tuner," permits easy tuning, for different ammo, conditions. This dampening effect usually allows for tighter groups. Another way is the "Boss" system used by Win. and Browning. The object is to get the barrel in the same spot every time a bullet exits the bbl.

If your action is moving, so is your Point of impact, (POI). Without looking at the rifle, it is very hard to judge what is wrong and how to fix it. As Antlurz, said, your best bet at this point is most likley to bed the action. Check the "Tips and Tricks" section. There is a whole lot of very useful advice there.

Don't think you waisted your money. The VQ kit will provide a very solid point for the action screw. This is a good thing.

Of course, if you are totally fed up, I'll buy it for a hundred bucks!!:D :D Naw, just hang in there. Stop the movement in the action and things will get a lot better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Just remember when you free float that barrel on the 10-22, you now have a nice teeter totter, unless you bed the action or add a 2nd take-down screw. Adding a pad up front may help but I think you'll have better results if the action has a firm bed to rest on, even with the front pad. Just my opinion...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
Do you mean there is .080" clearance at the receiver end of the barrel, and .035" at the "hump"? Do you use flexible feeler gauges to determine this?
Under the barrel, in the forearm. I cleared the forearm such that the only close fitting was at the 'hump,' why precision fit the whole length of the forearm. I used mylar tape as a not to exceed guide along the top of the barrel channel. I found some white cardboard that mic'd out to .035" and used it for 'feeler gauges.'

As Antlurz and Plchacker has stated, secure the reciever first. Antlurz came up with his brass key trick. Glued it over the take down screw hold to give the rcvr a flat spot to seat on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,556 Posts
38super...

actually, I can't take credit for the key trick. I think coyote did that one... but the result is the same. A hard bedding for the takedown screw, and a bed for the rest of the action to sit on. From my point of view, the action should have a hard point at the takedown, at the rear of the receiver, including a bit up the sides to stop any rotational movement, and the first couple inches of the barrel. That locks thing into place and then something to tune the pressure on the barrel should get you what you are looking for.

From there on out, things should look up..

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK..... here's what I want to do:

1) I already have a hard bedding for the takedown screw, so I'm set there. But I still have the rocking up and down (teeter-totter) movement.

2) Bed the rear of the action, so that it has something to sit on, which will get rid of the teetering. What is the best way to do this? Every post I've read in the "Tips and Tricks" regarding bedding sound like completely different processes!

3) Next, I want to bed the first few inches in front of the take down screw, which I can do if I knew how to bed the rear of the action at the same time. Will Saran Wrap work as a "release agent" for both these areas? What else will work in a pinch?

I know I'm wearing you guys out with my problems, and I greatly appreciate it (and am going to send off a check for my $20 worth of trouble in the next few days), but I'm at my wit's end at this point. Help me out before I ruin about $600 worth of 10/22, not to mention the window I'll have to replace when I throw the thing through it! :)

Using JB Weld, if I put a little around the rear "lip" of the action, and a small amount in front of the takedown screw, will this achieve what I'm looking for? I'm worried about using too much in the rear of the action, and not being able to get the **** thing apart again. I have read and re-read all the tips and tricks, and looked at the photos till my eyes start blurring, but I stilll don't see a surefire way to bed the rear of the action properly.

Thanks for bearing with me through this....

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
saran wrap is not a release agent but next to it in the pantry is a great release agent...Pam cooking spray.double coat all areas that might remotly come into contact with the jb weld build "dams" with clay to keep it out of areas that you dont want it.be careful think it through and all should come out well.there are many posts on bedding you could use search to find them.even if your eyes tire reread them over n over then study your action.. this is easy to do but also easy to "glue" your action in the stock forever.Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
Antlurz, you are tew much! Yes, I seem to remember Cheapseats input on that issue.


Say hondovlx600, I still a little bugged by your rockin' rcvr. The barrel/rcvr assy should seat firmly into the stock inlet. The lower edge of the rcvr should rest on the inleted edge and stay there when the takedown screw is tightened. Sounds to me that the area around the takedown screw is a little high or not flat. Compare between the original stock and the Fagen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
It's not rocket science, because I can even do it. Just prevent the bedding compound from getting into any crevice or hole that would prevent the action from being removed from the stock. Remember any place the bedding compound touches, it will STICK TO!!. So be sure those surfaces are covered with a release agent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
THANKS ANTLURZ! That's what I needed to see!!!!!!! Exactly! I searched quite a bit myself, but couldn't find what I needed. You are DA MAN, as you have been many times before. Thanks, Ron. I'm actually smiling right now, for the first time in about a week! :=)

Brian
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top