[prof242]

Got a BIG problem. Have had two caseheads that blew out on my 10/22 magnum with a Butler Creek target barrel intwo different shooting sessions. The second time (yesterday), it broke/cracked the magazine! Called CPC to see if he'd do some of his work on it and possibly eliminate the problem. He said he no longer works on the 10/22 magnums.
Anyone have an alternative gunsmith who would look into this?

 

[899]

Holy Sheeeet!

DON'T use anymore of that ammo!!

It looks like you got ahold of some "hot loads"!

It's rare but, not unheard of.

Also! How do you "store" your ammo when you go out to shoot? Do ya leave it in the sun?

I don't believe that it's the rifles fault, IF you haven't done any "weird" modifications to it.

 

[prof242]

This is Federal Premium ammo with the 30gr Sierra HP. Ammunition was stored in a white box in the car (air conditioning had been running so ammo wasn't hot). Loaded the magazine, fired 4 rounds, then......BLAM. I shoot left-handed so my face received a peppering and some minor bleeding. Looked into the ejection port and saw the cartridge case still there with the blown rim.
The only mods are the BC barrel and Volq parts in the trigger.

 

[2893]

was the round fully seatted? or was it possible the case was unsuported, bolt not fully closed, round slightly protrudung from rear of barrel?

how old is the barrel? how clean is the chamber? if you were to remove the barrel, and let a round drop into it, would it drop into it all the way to the rim or would it hang up?

what about other ammo? everything cycles fine? did you try anything else between the blowouts? or afterwards?

was'nt quite sure, so I just went and took a look at my rifles, and they will both drop the firing pin with the bolt not completly shut... so if the round was getting hung up somehow,and extending ino the magazine well when the pin dropped I could see the damage being as you described.. but why the hang up?


Kevin

 

[899]

Kevin,

Good point!

I've seen problems associated with "over loaded" (too much powder aka "hot loads") ammo from the factory and "over heated" ammo (ammo left out in the sun).

I forgot about "out of battery" firing!!

 

[prof242]

Got home and stripped the rifle down. The chamber was dirty and could have caused the hangup. NOW, the rifle was thoroughly cleaned after the last time out (a week prior), and had fired five rounds about 10 minutes earlier, before these five. Is this a problem with Federal ammo? Don't seem to have the fouling problem with my T/C Contender barrel, nor does a friend who has a Marlin bolt gun.
Guess I'll try other cartridges to see if that clears up the problem. Just, the Federal shoots so darn good.

 

[2893]

If the rifle only had ten rounds through it prior to the malfunction I'd dobt it was due to the 10 shots of fouling... I was out this past week and put down 100-150 rounds of Federal Premium lot#H14H11 and had no problems whatsoever from this ammo...


I do have a couple of other questions though.
1) if you hand feed a cartridge into the barrel through the magazine well, does it set flush with the back of the barrel?

2) did you happen to pick up any of the empty cases at the range?

3) if it's an older barrel, i've heard of the back not being tempered properly and being battered by the bolt...

4)what's the lot # of the ammo you were using? is there any way you can weigh a loaded cartridge? I could compare weights with one from my lot to see if its overweight.

not perfect, but we could get close

Kevin

 

[prof242]

Kevin,
I think you may be on to something here. The cartridge case head does NOT sit flush with the barrel when a case is hand fed!

I weighed all the cartridges left in the box and the average was 56.1125 (got an electronic scale so wasn't too slow). Maximum ctdg wgt was 56.2 gr and minimum was 55.9gr. Lot number is 2AW133 Federal Premium, Sierra JHP (not Speer).

The barrel, a Butler Creek, was installed last year and has had less than 500 rnds fired through it (still have the original carton).

 

[prof242]

Another quick question (mind slipping, must be getting old ), what is the thought on sending the barrel back to Butler Creek vs having a gunsmith cut a deeper (better?) chamber for this. I hesitate to replace the barrel completely because I'm getting sub-1" groups at 100yds with Federal, Winchester, and Remington (top-of-the-line) ammo.
What gunsmith might you recommend?

 

[2893]

OK! I weighed 15 rounds, for a average of 55.39 grains High @ 55.6 low @ 55.1. given the slight variance... it does'nt sound like a double load to me.

I've got a Butler Creek take off setting around, + a couple of stock mag barrels right now... took them out and when a round is placed in the chamber it goes in all the way to the rim. it is this way in my rifle as well... sounds like something is hanging up that round inside the chamber. as to having a smith rechamber your barrel... not sure of the cost, but you'll probably lose accuracy unless they also set the barrel back as well, otherwise there just going to introduce more slop into the works. you could call Butler Creek and talk to them, sounds like its been a while. I think first off you should pull that barrel off and take a look to see if you can see what it is that's causing the problem?

If you do use a smith, I think every one here would agree that CPC would be the one to call, although I've heard he's not doing a lot of 22mag stuff anymore?? think I'd call anyway, just in case.

If Butler Creek won't fix you up, you could always call Ken at White Face Mountain Barrel Suplies he's one of our sponsors, and has great prices and turnarounds on GM barrels. I think a majority of the guys here have at least one GM barrel in the stable, and I don't think I've ever read any negative reviews. I've got two and there both shooters. matter of fact I lay awake last night thinkin about one of them for a upcoming project. so I don't think you'd go wrong there.

Anyhow, looks like the problem is narrowed down... and theres quite a few options from here.

let us know what you find when you get the barrel off!

Kevin

http://www.riflebarrelsupply.com/

 

[prof242]

Kevin,
Checked both the Butler Creek bbl and the factory take-off. Both had the casehead above the chamber slightly, meaning it was not flat across the barrel face. The factory was the higher of the two. Will go and buy a box of other ammo to see if it also is high in both of those chambers. May just have to buy another barrel. Like the looks of Whistlepig barrels, but may go with the GM.
Max

 

[2893]

Wish I could post attachments, I've got a WhistlePig on both my 10--22 and my 10-22 mag.... the one on the 10-22 mag is dialled in! it loves the Rem. supriems, and it's a nice looking rig as well.

don't understand why the factory barrel would be not seating properly, the only thing exposed past the barrel should be the rim of the cartridge. All of mine are free to that point...

picture sure would be worth a thousand words right about now!



the last post kind has me wondering, the round should'nt be flush across the back of the barrel, the rim should stop the forward motion of the round into the barrel. the forward face of the bolt covers the exposed portion of the rim... (aprox .045")

if I missunderstood, just disregard

Kevin

 

[prof242]

No Kevin, it was me who misunderstood. The cartridges (both Fed and Win) chamber smoothly right up to the rim on both barrels. When I first read your post, I thought that maybe there was a rim cutout...duh.
Don't know what the problem is unless there could be a misalignment between the boltface and the barrel's chamber face. Tried to see if this was a problem when I had the barreled action out of the stock. Seemed OK. Also, both faces were clean. Looks like a Whistlepig barrel is in my future.
Max

 

[2893]

Max,

just for giggles, I think since the barrel was clean, and rounds seated well, I'd get in contact with Federal and check with them.. se if there might be a problem with the lot of ammo.... you did'nt say how many were left over, it would'nt be to far out to believe you got the only bad ones in the box right at the git go...

http://www.federalcartridge.com/default.asp?br=1

sometimes it's not fun shooting from the correct side of the rifle eh? they should issue us little deflectors or something.

you might try some other "good feeding" ammo, and just go out and run a box thru from the FAR SIDE with all bits and pieces away to see that all works well.

just thought of this... when did you first break into these particular bullets? when the trouble started? or have you been shooting them a while?

Kevin

 

[prof242]

Kevin, I will get in contact with Federal and see what they have to say. The problem with the case heads (this is the second time in about 200 rds) was with the same lot of ammo and the BC barrel. Never had the problem with the factory barrel, but never shot it with this ammo. Never had the problem with my Bullberry barrel, but that has a recessed case head chamber and, of course, a solid breech.

Yep shooting from the "correct" side of the rifle can be daunting. I shot highpower with an M1 Garand......M1 fingers anyone?

Oh, by the way, did you know that the whole world is born left handed, and you remain that way until you commit your first sin.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[prof242]

I tore the whooooole rifle down into parts, examined and cleaned each one. Looked to see if there were any burrs, tool marks, etc., that needed polishing. Lo & Behold! The bolt face had tool marks way beyond what I've ever seen before. Assembled the rifle and used some dentist's "carbon" paper (the stuff he/she uses to ensure your bite is correct) to check bolt face to barrel breechface alignment.
AHA! Polished the high points down evenly with my stones until I had even fit at the breech. (Took it apart and reassembled many many times.)
Will take it out Monday to see if this fixes the problem.

 

[899]

kevin,

The "spec" for the Magnum bolt's rim recess is .050.

.045 is getting very close to a LR's rim thickness, ya might be asking for trouble with a too shallow recess.

prof242,

If the recess was too "deep" the cartridge could been held away from the breach (barrel) face. When ya stoned down those "high spots" you might've solved your problem.

I don't recall, did you have alot of "FTF"s? Failure to Fire.

That's a symptom of an excessively deep rim recess, too.

 

[prof242]

Ski: I used the thickest casehead as a gauge to ensure that I did not take off too much. No, didn't have but one or two FTFs that I remember. Monday is my normal "range day" so the culprit ammo (Fed 30gr Sierra HPs), Winchester Supremes, and a just-bought box of the new CCI TNTs (Speer 30gr HPs) will be tried. I've rigged a "deflector" to ensure I don't get peppered in the face in case the problem is not solved. Wish me luck.

 

[899]

.:t :t

Good luck!

 

[2893]

SKI....

your right, .050" correct # to many # flyin around my nogin! thanks for picking up on it.

Max make sure to let us know how things go at the range today, hope everything go's well:t

Kevin