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Just received this e-mail blurb from CIA. Don't know these animals.


RI1109G - BRNO Model 3 Target Rifle .22LR Heavy Barrel Good Condition

$179.87 (22 pieces)



RI1109GC - BRNO Model 3 Target Rifle .22LR Heavy Barrel Good Condition w/ Cracked Stock

$149.87 (2 pieces)



RI1110V - BRNO Model 4 Target Rifle .22LR Heavy Barrel w/ adjustable sights Very Good Condition

$199.87 (9 pieces)



RI1110G - BRNO Model 4 Target Rifle .22LR Heavy Barrel w/ adjustable sights Good Condition

$179.87 (55 pieces)



RI1110GC - BRNO Model 4 Target Rifle .22LR Heavy Barrel w/ adjustable sights Good Condition w/ Cracked Stock

$169.87 (10 pieces)



RI1110AGC - BRNO Model 4 Target Rifle .22LR Heavy Barrel w/ no sights Good Cond. w/ Cracked Stock

$149.87 (20 pieces)



MA1109 - BRNO Model 1,3, & 4 Single Shot Magazines

$49.87 (18 pieces)
 

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I have one of the #4's that I bought new about 5 years ago--it had been in storage, unfired since the 1950's. The year of manufacture was 1958!!! We ordered a couple from a guy in NM. Total cost was 397.00 each. This rifle is exceptional--equal to a 52-B Winchester of the same vintage--but the trigger isn't as good--but it is a better than average trigger. The rifle weighs about 9-1/2 pounds--is a five shot repeater. The action is about like the 452 CZ but smoother working and probably machined a little more closely. The bolt just glides on mine. I think the action on a #3 is a tad weaker, but probably plenty strong. I think the cut out (ejector port is larger and the #4 action is stiffer. The #4 was an improvement. The #4 also has an adjustable bedding block in the forearm like the old 52 Winchesters. I would'nt take 600.00 for mine!! It's new--and hey it's old too!
 

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What is CIA? I would imagine something in Canada. They are dime a dozen up there. These would be good prices for the states but very average for Canada. If it is a dealer in the US let me know. I would like a number 4 for position shooting practice.
 

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When I saw the first post I said "these are probably guns from Canada". Apparently everyone was trying to get rid of their guns before the 1/1/03 deadline when they needed to have licences to own them. **** shame but apparently everything was being sold a firesale prices. As most of you know these were not generally sold in the US but plenty were sold in Canada.
 

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CIA is Century International Arms in St. Albans Vermont. Usually they import from European, Mideast, or Asian sources. When I hear cracked stock on Century merchandise, it's usually somebody's surplus leftovers. I would be surprised if these are from Canada as they would be more expensive, unless they were confiscated by Canadian authorities. Perhaps I'm wrong on the Canada source, but who knows.
 

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I ordered a RI1110G as soon as I got the e-mail this AM (the RI1110V is out of stock). I've never heard of this rifle but it seems to be a heavy barrel target rifle. Should be a good deal for $200 if it shoots okay.

Were these ever used as a military training rifle by any country? Or perhaps in a national youth shooting program? Most of CAI's used merchandise is govt. surplus.

For those of you who haven't dealt with Century- you need a rep and an FFL to get anywhere with them.

I will post when mine arrives.
 

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I am intrigued. Doing a search for Century International Arms, I find one in Boca Raton Florida but not Vermont. Can anyone provide a link and/or phone number to contact them. I am not a firearms dealer, but I know a couple who would buy them for me. If a Model #4 Target Heavy Barrel is really roughly equivalent to a 52B, why wouldn't one in very good condition with adjustable sights be a good deal for $200 or so?
 

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They are probably military surplus in these quantities and conditions. Many countries in Eastern Europe used them as trainers. Real luck of the draw with them. You could get a winner or one someone cleaned with lapping compound and no bore guide every day for 20 years. There are no parts availability for these guns and has not been for decades. I believe they stopped making them in the late 50's. So these guns could have several decades of continued use on them from dozens of owners. Could get that diamond in the rough or a closet ornament.

I would compare them to a very big and heavy used CZ452 and not a Winchester 52B, C, D from that era. If you knew the history and could get a great shooter for $200 it is a good deal. Made of very strong steel and the barrels last forever. If you don't know it is a shooter then you could get a brand new CZ452 American or Varmint for about $275 or a CZ452 Special for $179.
Guaranteed shooter and brand new with warranty. All parts are readily available.
 

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The 52B has some trigger adjustments for trigger pull and sear engagment that can be done with a small screwdriver. The BRNO 4 has the same trigger as the 452, meaning you need to swap springs for trigger pull and add shims/sleeves for less sear engagment. The dovetail on the Brno 4 is 15 or 16mm wide so standard 22 or BKL rings won't work either.
 

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Good Info Austin870

Thanks for the input austin870. That makes them a little less intriguing. I did buy a 452 American a week ago, sighted it in and shot silhouettes (the big ones for pistols) with it last Sunday. It seemed to shoot well. While sighting it in, it would put two to three bullets right together at 50 meters, from a rudimentary front (only) rest. Tomorrow I will brave the cold (for Florida) and do some more extensive testing of ammo, the rifle and me, using a good bench rest and bags. I plan to be out there several hours trying out five or six types of ammo I have on hand.

Thanks again for the info.

Barry
:)
 

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As I said earlier--my #4 BRNO is "new" and it'll shoot circles around my two Americans with whatever ammo is used. A new one of these # 4'swill hold it's own with a 52 of the same vintage, same condition--"new"--fact. I've done it and seen it done. The machine work on the '58 vintage#4 rifle is superior to the new CZ's--fact. I say this because I'd like to point out the fact that I was not comparing a worn out # 4 to a 52-B. And the 52-C trigger is better--I don't know if I'd go as far as to say the B trigger is any better after the two have been properly worked, at least on the early B's.
 

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You were right about the rings--you have to use good ones, but they can be found. I've modified several sets of Ruger rings for these BRNO's. The Australian Tasco rings can still be found occasionally, and Sako works too.
 

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Kent,

The CZ452 has destroyed the $300 to $700 new and used 22 rimfire market regardless of brand. The workmanship of the #4 is far superior but it lacks versatility with its weight. Too heavy to hunt or shoot Silhouettes with. You can take a CZ Scout for $149 add a Lilja barrel, custom stock, pillar bed job and be right around the same $600 your gun is. You could hunt, shoot Silhouettes, BR Sporter class and will shoot right with your #4 or a 52 and most dificult of all make weight for BR Sporter class. The Custom action, Win 52, Rem 40X or Anschutz 54 make a much better platform for putting money into a serious BR gun. IMO

Once again I love the #4 and have played with several of them and almost bought one several times. I always admire the workmanshiip. I just don't have a firm purpose for it.
 

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I ordered a brno #4 from Jerry's 8 or 9 years ago for $225, tasco rings were another $18; it was described as being in very good condition.

By it's appearance, the rifle I received was new. The trigger was right around 4 oz. with a bit of smooth creep. Remington subsonic made groups a bit larger than a dime at 125 yards. With the nearly 28" bbl it was pretty quiet as well.

The only additional trait for which I could have hoped would be a vertical grip as on a biathlon rifle.
 

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Austin, I agree you that the #4 doesnt quite fill any of the popular niches. I have two of the CZ Americans and they are very good- for the money they can't be beat. I reccommend them to everyone. In their original new condition that a good # 4 could be very good indeed, and were the equal of the rest of the rifles made in their day. My # 4 came new in the box with a test target--a very good one at that! I'm a 52 Winchester fan myself and a Kimber fan. And I also have a few CZ's, a Walther, a Sako--guess I just like good rifles. The #4 that I have is factory stock except for a one lbs. trigger job and it's the equal of any of my other rifles, and it beats some. Of course if you're shooting benchrest hardly any factory stock rifle other than a Cooper, Anschutz, maybe a 40X is going to win consistently IMO. An old friend of mine told me once that the way to get a good match gun was to go and visit some matches--see who was winning regularly, then buy his gun or have one built just like it by the same guy. Then at least you knew you had the same chance the winner had, if you were up to the task of shooting it well. Well at least it's an idea!
 

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Kent,

About your buddies advice, buy the one at the match even if you pay more for a used than you would new. Guns don't clone well even with the top gunsmiths in the country.

Then all you have to do is figure out how the owner learned to shoot that darn good in only 60 years and then you have figure a way to put it all together before the upcoming season. Somehow the math never works out on those crash courses. You just can't buy experience.

Reminds me of a young fellow that purchased a competition gun after watching my friend the owner win tournaments with it. After a month he brought it back and said it was broken. It won't shoot like it did at the tournaments any more. We laughed our asses off and he turned beat red. We gave him some lessons and he improved a great deal. We didn't see him for 9 months or so and he brought it back with a grin and a case of beer and said he got married, hadn't shot it in awhile and it was broken again.
 

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I know I tend to ramble too much in my typing, but I did say "if YOU were up to the task of shooting the thing". I've taken an average rifle and beaten poor shots with excellent rifles many times for money--but we all know that you can't take poor equipment and beat excellent shooters with excellent equipment--unless it's a match where you only fire one shot--then if you were lucky, it'd be possible. I enjoyed reading your post. My thanks to whomever started the thread--it's been fun and entertaining.
 

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I agree that the best smiths don't build or clone the exact same gun on each and every try, even though it is their intention. Due to materials differences, barrel stresses that can't be detected, stock stresses, action bedding, etc. they do a great job. I think everyone will agree that the same builders guns turn up in the top ten year after year. I don't think that's luck--it happens too often. My friend was simply telling me to go ahead and get a winning rifle to begin with and begin the game.
 

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I have both a BRNO #3 and a winchester M52D. The BRNO is a big fine, accurate rifle but it does not shoot nearly as well as the 52D.

Mind you the Winchester is heavily modified and the BRNO is nearly stock. The BRNO is more accurate than anything else I own, aside from the winchester. It is most certainly in a different class then the current CZ 452 offerings, which are basically BRNO #2's

By the way, the BRNO#3s advertised are very rare, it is the first time I have ever heard of one for sale (aside from mine) They will all have serial numbers less than 5000. BRNO #4s were used by the Canadian military for training and competion and some of the surplus models were incredibly beat up - it was the only time I have seen a .22 with the rifling completely burnt off just past the chamber
 
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