[TangoTwo]

I came across this on another forum. Totally agree on the -2's that are a fact when shooting in a dead calm. There ain't no such thing as a dead calm. Always something happening, you just can't see it. My experience has been 8-10 good shots, then, -2! If you get lucky, a 250 is a real possibility. Just don't pull the trigger when that 8 is lurking. Shot a match last month, guy a couple benches down shot a 250. I had two 8's on that target, just pulled the trigger at the wrong time. I hate calms. Not predictable.

Take it for what it's worth. BTW, if the tails on your flags move at all, you should be ok.

Ken



I didn't post the name of the poster. Maybe he will see this and add something?

Congrats to Jim Pepper and Jack Boger for 250's at Blue Ridge today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim and Jack--
Congrats to both of you for shooting 250's today at Blue Ridge/ Wilkesboro. Jim shot a 250 in IR5050 -10-1/2 class and Jack shot a 250 in RBA -10-1/2 class. That was fine shooting guys. We had several 249's too. Weather was hot and muggy, with hardly any wind to move the flags--and bullets were dropping and rising for no apparent reason? Lots of mule tales on the flags and dead calms that were causing -2's, and -1's! Jim Pepper has been to Blue Ridge twice and shot a 250 each time--I think Jim is beginning to like shooting here! Thanks to everyone for coming out and shooting, and thanks for all the help. I was dead worn out when the match ended--then again, I think I was worn out after the first target! Thanks to all, it was another good shoot, and the winning was spread out. Allen Stigall shot a 745 agg. in IR5050--that was some great shooting Allen! It took some doing today!

 

[Kent Owens]

Ken-
We had too much calm air to suit me yesterday, although there were little breezes blowing now and then, I just wasn't patient enough to wait for them. There was a condition present that would cause the bottom to fall out of a shot now and then, but to me it wasn't perceptable. but it did happen in the calm "seeming" air. I say seeming, because I don't think it was actually that calm--it would drop a bullet 2 rings( or enough to drop 2 points--but it wasn't consistent to where you could hold high for it. The best thing to do was just wait it out. There were some good scores shot by people who read it right and didn't shoot at the wrong time. I can't run a match and shoot too, or so it seems, so I shot in the middle of the pack most of the day and wasted some good ammo. Maybe next time will be better?
Gary shot a good target in RBA--249-17X, and took a second place plaque.

 

[Tenspot]

Would both of you consense that the calm conditions lead to those vertical -2's?? That has been my experience, normally low but not predictable.

As I get IR50/50 going in our club, our small bore range configuration promises to be a humdinger for wind - it is in a "hole" in the mature red pines. Wind never blows any one given direction in there. SOmetimes it seems very calm, to the unobservant.

 

[TangoTwo]

Brian,

I have found dead calms will often cause a -2 low, but not always, sometimes left, right or up. Many times it's only a -1, still hurts when you think you've got it made. For lack of a better term, I like to think that a bullet needs some air movement to hold it up. When the wind just dies, so does the bullet. Then you get smart and hold high, ever hit right where you are aiming?

Watch where you step, might get some on your shoes.

Ken

 

[Tenspot]

Ken, I can absolutely gaurantee that A few of those holdoffs have gone exactly where the crosshairs were and not where my poor judgment thought they should!!! If someone only had a camera on us when that happens, I am sure the facila expressions are priceless.

 

[18269]

Here in the south

We had much the same conditions. In Cordele on Saturday it was just as tango and Kent described. On sunday in Montezuma, the famous wind there kicked up some.

all weekend long I struggled with 248's in heavy guns. I had the ammo matched up and was dead centering a fair amount of bulls. Every time I missed a couple of subtle changes that did me in.

Funny how scores run so close accross the nation. Makes me think we only are grasping the tip of the iceberg?

 

[Kent Owens]

Ron-
Congratulations on your shooting. I notice you shot pretty good in GA the past weekend. 248's ain't bad shooting my man! I'd take 3 of 'em every match and sit in the truck! A 744 would win a lot of 3-gun aggs.--but not always. It'd sure put toward the top of the list at the end of the year :t Keep up the good shooting, and keep trying to find reason for why things do what they do. my main fault has been lack of patience, and the matches I run, I have even less patience it seems. We've been shooting an IR5050 match and an RBA match on the same day. I've been opening the range at 7:00 am and leaving bout 6 or 7 PM! I use to enjoy all the matches, but now I seem to dread the home range match, because I know I won't be able to pay proper attention. If I had it to do over, I'd only hold one match on a given day.

 

[Tenspot]

Kent, as someone getting ready to hold IR matches, that is good info....!

 

[Kent Owens]

Tenspot--
Not to discourage anyone, but I'm not as young as I used to be and the all day matches takes it toll on my bad back and bad hip. The shooters are all very good to help out, and without their help the matches couldn't go on. I'm in a unique situation with the home range--none of the members shoot rimfire BR, and none of 'em help. A lot of our shooters come from Tenn. and VA and I agreed to take over the running of the match so it would not be discontinued. In the beginning, I had a partner to help, and it was fun, we had big plans, but he was tragically killed shortly after the first match in an auto accident. That left me on my own with 14 mathes on the schedule( 7 double matches)! The shooters have been great to help out and that's what has made it possible. My advice is to solicit all the help you can. Pick some people to score targets, and use a laptop PC with the scoring programs to list scores--they work great and make sense of who actually won after all the shooting! If I can be of help, let me know. By all means do run the matches--we need all the new shooters into the game to keep it growing and alive. Good luck--hope your health is better. Take it easy-you'll age more gracefully--or able to walk anyway

 

[18269]

Amusing story

At the Georgia State Championships, there was an Anschutz rifle for sale. It sat in a cleaning cradle all day. I talked to the owner. I told him if it would shoot my ammo, I would buy it. It had an original anschutz stainless barrel. The stock looks almost like a Edge, but not quite, looks lighter. I thought surely it would need rebarreling.

After the match was over, I shot it. While everyone was standing around jawing, waiting on results, I was plugging away with it.

I shook the guys hand and closed the deal. Then I showed him the target I had just shot with it. A 250. Haven't shot another one with it yet. Scores aren't up to my expectations. The bedding isn't an issue, Tim McWhorter did the smithing. Can't put my finger on it. It is shooting in the 243 - 246 range. Just out of the running. The secret may lie in the tuner. Maybe I just haven't shot it enough.

Ain't rimfire benchrest fun?

 

[Tenspot]

THanks for the advice Kent. There is one other member in our club that shoots. I may get 1-2 more for a few shoots if I loan out equipment, but I know they won't last. I am hopefull to have 1-2 other people that will help out even though they won't shoot, as they just like doing things at the club and having fun.

I figured to keep just IR going the first year and get my feet wet. I still have to get a slab poured , a roof , and 10 benches built. I have to get crafty at motivating others for this as I just had my second abdominal hernia surgery of the 2005. It is keeping me from getting alot done, not to mention puts a cramp on my shooting from a bench.


Kent, Ron, & Ken,

I plan on pouring a 60x10 slab and putting 8-10 of the U-shaped benches on it. FOr the bench tops I will make a form from a 4x8 sheet of plywood (bottom) and frame the edges, down the middle, and the U shape. The U will be 21"x21", the perimeter of the top will measure 45.5" wide x 44.75" deep. I plan on putting bench 1&2 15" apart, bench 3 & 4 35" apart, and repeat that pattern down the line. That way every other bench gap is walk space.

Any input on those ideas? I am starting from scratch here, so I want to make a real friendly range!

 

[TangoTwo]

Brian,

Have you considered tee shaped benches? At Camillus that's what we use on 6' centers. This leaves plenty of room to get out between them and lefties can shoot along side normal people without skipping a bench. I think tee shape may accomodate handicapped shooters better too. I have never shot off a u shape bench, the tee or some variation of it seems standard at all the ranges I have shot. If I recall correctly, the front of the tee is about 42" and the back about 16" I can take som better dimensions if you like. Our benches set on two columns of concrete blocks. The front is two blocks long and the back is a single block perpendicular to the front. Both are three blocks high with a 2x8 fastened with anchor bolts, a 2x6 on edge and 2x tops. This puts the top at 32-33" high.

Most of the time you can get volunteers to hang/collect targets. What really helps is when you have someone to score while you are shooting. The laptop with the scoring program is a blessing. I always record the scores on the paper scoresheet too. Just in case my computor skills, or lack thereof, cause me to lose the data. It gets easier after you've done a couple. I have had to call a 14 minute warning instead of the customary 15 minutes on occasion. Sometimes you get preoccupied with your shooting. Hard to get in the zone and watch everything else too.

Good luck,

Ken

 

[Tenspot]

Ken,

Please do get actual dimensions on the T shaped benches. THis was a debate I had with myself. I have had to of the regional shooters tell me they prefer T's, and several that are indifferent, and a few U's also.

That would free up some space for me to have 10 benches and a scoring area on the slab. Is a 10' wide slab sufficient?

 

[Kent Owens]

Brian-
10' for the slab is going to limit storage under the shed for equipment. Kettlefoot range in Bristol, VA has a great setup. If I think of it, I'll take a digi cam and take some pic's when I go over the last of this month. They have shelves built between the posts all the length of the shed, and it makes for a great place to store all your equipment. Another range we shoot not too far from here has a shed that's very narrow--only room for the shooters under the shed, and no where to stash rifles, cases, ammo, etc. if it's raining. wilkesboro has a wide shed with rows of tables to store the equipment, and the storage is a big deal to me. I hate to keep going back and forth to the truck to store rifles if it's raining. I keep mentioning shed, and I'm not sure if you even said you going to build one? Sorry if I'm putting the horse ahead of the cart. The T shaped benches are a good idea too. You can make a form to mold 'em--put plastic in the form so the tops will be smooth and they will release from the form easily. Use 8" blocks for the legs as Ken said, and if you want you can use Liquid Nails adhesive to attach them together instead of mortar. It works. They make a concrete adhesive in caulking tubes But, do thing about storage for the equipment. We have a separate little shed for scoring, bout 12' x14'.

 

[TangoTwo]

I'll second Kent's thoughts on storage and seperate scoring area. We use the clubhouse while everyone is on the line shooting. Scoring is hard enough without guys looking over your shoulder. Besides, I think the rules say something to that effect, at least for the protests. If you don't have room for the shelves/tables the guys will deal with it. It is a nice touch though.
You want the tops of concrete benches to be smooth but not shiny. Sometimes plastic makes the tops too slick and everything slides around. Others I have shot from must have been finnished with a rake. Stuff didn't slide on those, rough on the elbows. Tell your mason/finisher that you want a nice float finish. I still like a solid wood bench, must be the carpenter roots in me.

Ken

 

[Tenspot]

Kent, great info. Do get pics, they are truly worth a thousand words!!

I have 3K for the budget, and the concrete will eat up a ton of it, it is $90 a yd up here.

Step one was to move our driveway and raise the berm behind our smallbore range. I cut down 27 mature red pine and limbed em for that which cost me a hernia surgery last Friday. I'll do concrete in July, roof this fall. A shed may come next year.

 

[Kent Owens]

Ken-
I shot at Wildernes Road, VA a couple of weeks back and they had some very good wood benches. I liked them a lot. The legs looked to be 6''X8'' 's concreted into the ground and had very solid wood tops. I sat down an tried to shake the bench to test it and it was solid as a rock! If they wobble I put my knee against 'em. I shot pretty decent off 'em too, made me like 'em more Still blew a few shots, but not because of the bench. Those benches were T- shaped and about 3'X4' long. Wilderness has a nice place to shoot there too, beautiful surroundings, if you like woods and steams, and I do.

Brian-our posts past in cyber space! Did you have the trees cut into lumber to build the shed? Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead. How deep are you going to pour the slab. I know it varies from area to area, depending on how cold it gets in Winter and how deep the ground freezes. A couple of the ranges I shoot do not have slabs--the ground is paved with .22 empties, a sort of brass gravel I've been asked by a property owner to design a rimfire range, top class setup for .22 matches and centerfire, so I will get a chance to draw up what I feel is needed, without having to do all the work. Should be fun, when I can find the time. Been a busy year so far, shooting 3 weekends a month! It's fun though.

 

[TangoTwo]

Dwight,

Had me going back to the title to check my spelling, never was my strong suit. I guess shooting clams could be dangerous, what with skipping bullets across the water.


Brian,

Our slabs of concrete are 6' square and 4" deep. Frost line around here is about 4' so the slabs just "float", no problems as long as you don't have any plumbing cast in them. Gravel the rest to save some money. 6' gives you plenty of room behind for shooting stools.

Ken

 

[18269]

I would like to invite all of you

to come shoot with us here in the sunny south. Where the gentle breezes blow at least ten minutes before changing directions. Tropical climate. Lots of sun. Hardly ever rains. Visiting Montezuma will make for a memorable shoot.

 

[Kent Owens]

Ron-
Same invite to you man! We're havoing the NC State IR5050 Championship in Wilkesboro on July 2 and an RBA match will follow in hte afternoon. Come on up! Shoot some 250's! Someone always does! They've been hard to come by for me lately. I keep dropping the 23 rd or 25 shot! Don't know what that's about? Still trying to figure it out. I think it's over confidence Take care.
Kent