[dgaboury]

Hey everyone, after doing a few searches here on RFC... I've come up dry. So I was hoping ya'll could answer a quick question for me. Who knows... this might even spark a serious debate here!
Now I know everyone has their opinions and likes and dislikes:hide: ... so that's why i started this thread! Go ahead and answer this please
...
Which stock is the best for shooting off-hand? And why?
Likes, maybe dislikes?
Stocks like Boyd's Barracuda? Or more like McMillian?
...

Thanks in advance everyone!:snipersmi

 

[Tuck]

that would be a gatewood offhand, they are great and have a cant built in for speedy scope sighting.

look him up.

 

[nemohunter]

Gatewood is the best. Raptor or Fajen Legacy next. niether have the ergonimics that the Gatewood has. then everything else. unless you start talking bolt guns then Pharr comes into play.

 

[19045]

I agree with nemo, get a Gatewood or Fajen Legacy.

 

[stsbuyer]

Hey everyone, after doing a few searches here on RFC... I've come up dry. So I was hoping ya'll could answer a quick question for me. Who knows... this might even spark a serious debate here!
Now I know everyone has their opinions and likes and dislikes:hide: ... so that's why i started this thread! Go ahead and answer this please
...
Which stock is the best for shooting off-hand? And why?
Likes, maybe dislikes?
Stocks like Boyd's Barracuda? Or more like McMillian?
...

Thanks in advance everyone!:snipersmi

Here is my 2 cents from 30+ years shooting Silhouette. I use a
Mark Pharr/Robertson Composite RT/s and RT stock.
It has the high & squared cheek rest you need for a good cheek weld to the stock. I have seen many different actions inletted in to the Pharr design, Anschutz 1712 & 5418, Remington 40x & 700, Winchester 52, Sako 94, and I am sure many more. The Pharr RT/s is carbon fiber whick makes it much lighter than laminated or solid wood stocks. This gives you the opertunity to put more weight in the barreled action and it is easier to make weight limits. You can also use it for Standard or Hunter Rifle. It is also available in any color you could think of.

Later Paul

If you want to spend the extra money it is available in wood.

 

[dgaboury]

hey thanks everyone for the replies! :bthumb:
I am a little surprised to see the Gatewood up there... haha, but then again i'm so used to seeing adjustables like the Fajen at the range.

it's a shame the Gatewood isn't really a looker imho :hide: ... but then again performance over purty!

anyone ever custom built their own?

how's about the fajen laminates with the high cheek piece? or maybe the boyds?

thanks again for the input guys!

 

[Tuck]

make it a looker.

 

[Doc]

Hands down the Gatewood

I've been a custom stockmaker and checkerer. If you get one finished it is an unbelievable thing. The clear coat he uses is nearly indestructible. If you get one unfinished you can finish fitting it to your exact stance, which is indescribable.

Doc

 

[Skeeter27red]

couldn't pay me

You'd never see me using one of those Fajens (sometimes it's a blessing to be a lefty), my partner paid like 113.00 for one, I just laugh at him. I think they are a "Newbie thing". ..........
"But I like the adjustabilty" He says.......I say "Just how many times are you going to adjust it?"
If you are shooting to win in competition, you want a high quality true composite stock. Of course wood can be made to work, but you'll also be dinking with it from day to day as the POI changes with the weather, sometimes even just morning to afternoon. It doesn't take some kinda fancy weird shape, any REAL shooter will settle right in to whatever they are using (within limits of course). But then I've been shooting right handed guns all of my life. It has taken me years to aquire lefty stuff that actually fits and is worth owning, and even when it fits exactly perfect, the scores are virtually identical for me on a lefty stock that fits vs. a standard Sporter stock with a right handed cheek weld. I've learned that it's all about that tiny moment in time where the crosshairs are in the right spot, get it to go then and it will go, no matter the stock (okay, shooting a righty T-hole is kinda hard for a lefty).
I see this when I watch Chief Dave shoot as well, you can actually "see" his connection with whatever rifle he is using (and it doesn't matter what he uses, if it shoots, He will kick your buttocks).
A better question might be "Which scope can I get the most parallax adjusted out with?" getting rid of any left over parallax is going to pay a lot more than even the best stock choice, offhand or bench. But hey, that's just me.
P.S.- Ever seen the footage of Jimi Hendrix playing the National Anthem with his teeth? It's done on a right handed guitar that is turned upside down and strung backwards. Think about that....all knobs in the wrong spot, etc., it just didn't matter. For those that don't know Jimi Hendrix, he was left handed.

 

[steve b.]

Pharr stock aside, we need to take a step outta the dark ages....

This is the best stock:

http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/ecatalog/grunig-elmiger-rs-revolution-iii-p-237.html

Ha..! These things make Pharr stocks look cheap in price!

Actually, it depends on what you shoot. I use a wide range of stocks for my needs, everything from a basic wood sporting stock to an Anscutz unlimited prone stock. I like the McMillan Silhouette Master alot for my MSR 54:18. I have handeled a few Pharr stocks, and I think that's next on my list.

Set a price range and go from there.

 

[Skeeter27red]

Opinions are like.........


I think a lot of the dark ages will depend on personal taste. For instance, I'd prefer a nice, light 64 action Anschutz over a 54 action for Silhouette, that is just what I prefer. From there you can then begin to look at overall weight, and what the weight advantage of the lighter action allows as far as distribution of the weight to get all of the "pointability" and balance instilled into the overall package. The correct weight placement can be a huge advantage over a heavier action that did not allow for as much freedom of weight placement. For a 10/22 action, I have spent considerable time sorting that out and get those needs perfect, and there is a right combination for different stocks. A big part of the reason we went to a modular barrel construction is because of the different needs for different applications, and the inherint ability of the design to accomodate the different applications. There are many choices for stocks and barrels, but if you do not match these components correctly, you'll end up with something that is much less than what it could be for the same dollars spent. Doesn't matter if it is for competition or just field use, the perfect balance and having all of the weight sorted correctly is big.
So, weight distribution has to be a consideration, and then that will lead you into what stock and barrel choice is going to bring home the gold.
The British thinking from my perspective has always been one of an eccentric flair to their designs, or perhaps "overcomplicating" as what they desire for a design solution. Doesn't make it better or worse, that is just the way the naturally do things. The Italians lean towards a sexy appearance that flow like the curves of a Woman's body. To them, THAT is "mechanical art" You don't have to spend a ton of money to win, you just have to land with an effective package that allows YOU to be more precise.
The rest is just what you like........I still say the scope is really big in all of this.

 

[steve b.]

Of course personal taste!

I would agree that weight distribution is critical, but the most common complaint with sports like silhouette is that the rifles are too light. David Tubb went on at length about this in his second book, as well as Maik Eckhardt in his book, Ways of the Rifle.

If you look at the rifles used in olympic events, they are much heavier that we expect, and use the heavy single shot actions. The large heavy action creates a much better ballance point because of the large barrels and extension tubes used. There is an outstanding discussion about this in The Ways of the Rifle.

For modular, again G&E, Walther, Anschutz, Steyr, ect sort use the same flavor of stocks, but the G&E is so much more refined. I like the G&E with MEC parts, they just seem to go hand in hand. But there is no doubt that many of these rifles are setup to add weight in various locations rather than loose weight. I'm still trying to figure out all the possible places to add weight on my 9003 air rifle. I'm not real familar with any Italian olympic rifle, but I sure love their pistols.

For prone, wood stocks are back in favor, due to their harmonic dampening, and if bedded correctly, they are just as stable as any alu stock. Eric Uptagraft has moved back to the wood stock, but I'm not sure what Matt is shooting - aside from the heavy Anschutz 2013 action and Lilja barrel combo. Both Matt and Eric favor heavy rifles for off hand. Their prone guns are tanks.

I think silhouette is so difficult because of the weight limits and stock restrictions. With reverse taper barrels and counter-bored muzzles, a silhouette rifle can really be comfortable. "Pointability" changes quickly over the duration of a match, and the rifle's CG will become critical as the day wears on, and having weight close to the body's center is very important. Staying within the 10.2 lbs is just maddening when a 14lb rifle seems just right.

As for scope, when I can figure out how to make weight with a Nightforce, I'll be happy, but i ain't giving up the 54 action!

Now, what you come up with for the 10/22 is gonna be pretty interesting, and i'm curious as to what direction you are gonna go. Any hints?

 

[SwampF0X]

OK, I'll be the not so technical oddball here. I like the Barracuda for off hand shooting. I haven't tried every style stock on the market but I have shouldered several. The Barracuda IMHO is the most comfortable stock I have ever held.

I've read a lot of excellent reviews on the Gatewood Offhander. I've never seen one in person but I just don't like the way they look. Fugly IMHO........sorry Claude, no offence.

swampf0x

swampf0x

 

[Skeeter27red]

Pardon my relative ignorance

Of course personal taste!

I would agree that weight distribution is critical, but the most common complaint with sports like silhouette is that the rifles are too light. David Tubb went on at length about this in his second book, as well as Maik Eckhardt in his book, Ways of the Rifle.

If you look at the rifles used in olympic events, they are much heavier that we expect, and use the heavy single shot actions. The large heavy action creates a much better ballance point because of the large barrels and extension tubes used. There is an outstanding discussion about this in The Ways of the Rifle.

For modular, again G&E, Walther, Anschutz, Steyr, ect sort use the same flavor of stocks, but the G&E is so much more refined. I like the G&E with MEC parts, they just seem to go hand in hand. But there is no doubt that many of these rifles are setup to add weight in various locations rather than loose weight. I'm still trying to figure out all the possible places to add weight on my 9003 air rifle. I'm not real familar with any Italian olympic rifle, but I sure love their pistols.

For prone, wood stocks are back in favor, due to their harmonic dampening, and if bedded correctly, they are just as stable as any alu stock. Eric Uptagraft has moved back to the wood stock, but I'm not sure what Matt is shooting - aside from the heavy Anschutz 2013 action and Lilja barrel combo. Both Matt and Eric favor heavy rifles for off hand. Their prone guns are tanks.

I think silhouette is so difficult because of the weight limits and stock restrictions. With reverse taper barrels and counter-bored muzzles, a silhouette rifle can really be comfortable. "Pointability" changes quickly over the duration of a match, and the rifle's CG will become critical as the day wears on, and having weight close to the body's center is very important. Staying within the 10.2 lbs is just maddening when a 14lb rifle seems just right.

As for scope, when I can figure out how to make weight with a Nightforce, I'll be happy, but i ain't giving up the 54 action!

Now, what you come up with for the 10/22 is gonna be pretty interesting, and i'm curious as to what direction you are gonna go. Any hints?

When I talk about Italian design, it is from other arenas, such as Sports car racing, I have very little knowledge about all of the gun people or their books. I just know what works the best is going to be similar to the cars I've designed and developed and raced (and won with) I think it is a fairly universal philosophy.
The thing about what makes the cars work isn't any one aspect, it is their ability to put a superior state of tune onto the chassis regardless of the weather, track type, or conditions at that particular moment in time. It's more of an orchestration of all elements coming together in symphany in rain, hot or cold, long sweepers, or tight low speed corners. The ability to allow yourself elbow room to set-up for any condition is done at the design level.
So there's your hint/s.
Interestingly, when Chief Dave made that 100 yard Rolex shot to set off the primer of a .44 shell nestled between two swinging Rolex watches at 100 yards, it was done with a 13 pound HMR from a standing freehand position, it wasn't from a bench. He showed me the exact spot underground about 3 weeks ago. There were a TON of witnesses, I had an oportunity to speak with some of them.
There's a lot of merit to what Steve is saying about the weight issues.:bthumb:

 

[dgaboury]

OK, I'll be the not so technical oddball here. I like the Barracuda for off hand shooting. I haven't tried every style stock on the market but I have shouldered several. The Barracuda IMHO is the most comfortable stock I have ever held.

I've read a lot of excellent reviews on the Gatewood Offhander. I've never seen one in person but I just don't like the way they look. Fugly IMHO........sorry Claude, no offence.

swampf0x

swampf0x

:yeahthat:

I agree with you swampfox... tuck's gatewood aside, they are quite the ugly girl of the aftermarket stocks! However, sometimes looks must be compromised for pure functionality. I've never held the gatewood, but I'll take the word that they work great for what they were designed for.... offhand shooting!!! yeeehaw!!!
The reason I started this thread in the first place was to get insight for building a new stock to accompany my new receiver design.
So far it looks like an adjustable cheek ftw.

Skeeter and Steve - I completely agree with the weight issues. I've been shooting junior olympic small-bore for a little over 3 years now and having a heavier rifle on your hands seems to affect steadiness for the better.

I'm new to this art and have soooo much to learn from the masters...
thanks for reminding me

 

[dgaboury]

ohhh haha yeah... and i want something that'll work darn well in the meantime!!!