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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Folks,

Tried my first bedding job this weekend, and I made a mistake bedding the barrel. I followed the directions in the tips section meticulously. When I removed the barreled action after the Acraglas gel cured, there were a number of large voids in the bedding.

I mixed up some more Acraglas, applied it over the voids, then replaced the barreled action. When I tightened the take-down screw, some gel oozed up around the barrel which seemed right to me.

Cut to 10 hours later, I removed the barreled action and the bedding is 1/8" or more thick at the bottom (above the level of the channel of the stock) and up the sides. The thinkness of the bedding lifts the barrel about 1/4" at the front end of the stock.

I guess I didn't seat the barrel deeply enough the second time although the screw seemed to be tightened down normaly.

I'd like to know what I did wrong but, more importantly, how to I fix it? I'm thinking that going after it with a drum sander on my Dremel tool is the right approach, but I'd really appreciate hearing from folks who know what they're doing -- unlike me.

Thanks,

Mike
 

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What you did wrong was try to bed it a second time.
It's ok, lots of us make that mistake.
Its the reason most of us recommend not bedding the rear first, then the front, as many newcomers ask about.

The way you fix it is the same way you described, just remove it somehow.
A dremel is probably the best tool for this.

As far as what you need to do after removal...Ask yourself if this is an inportant part. Lots of times you will get voids, it is hard not to. It is okay if you do get voids. The purpose of bedding is to provide as close to a perfectly mated surface between the barrel and or action to the stock. If the barreled action fits well after you take out the boo boo then go shoot it.
If it shoots well then don't mess with it.
If it shoots worse than before the bedding than dremel out enough of the old bedding to let you bed the whole thing again.
 

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I bedded mine 2x and was planning to do it to the next one. I didn't mix up quite enough on the first one. I wiped it with alcohol swabs and put another layer on. I did this after 3 hours. I figured it would take care of shrinkage.

I tape the front of the barrel so that when the action is tightend down it is centerd in the groove. I also did both the rear of the reciever and barrel at the same time.

I removed more wood than I did the last time, I don't know whether that will be good or bad.
 

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Of the over twenty ceterfire rifles I've bedded I ALWAYS do a second bed. Here's why. Any bedding mat'l shrinks. I could not care less about a few voids and such, they don't hurt a thing. But when I learned to bed rifles it was from a pretty famous benchrest shooter/gunsmith that wrote articles on the subject in Rifle magazine back in the 70's. After a full cure of at least 24 hours I ALWAYS go back and do what is called a "paint coat" bedding. This is to make up for the shrinkage from first time through.

After the first bed the action comes out of the stock fairly easily. At this point you check your release and touch up or replace it as needed. Then you litterally paint a new coat of bedding compound over everthing you have already done but you keep this coat very thin. Fill the voids if you want to make it look good (I do but this is not important or needed, just makes it prettier). If when you set the action back into the stock you get alot of bedding sqeezing out you used TOO MUCH. You should get only a tiny amount. Let cure for 24 hrs. You will find that this time when you seperate the action from the stock it is going to be much more difficult. That is because you now have a much tighter fit than one coat will ever give you. :t Many gunsmiths use a similar method.

The second coat is NOT a problem. Doing a second coat wrong IS a problem. Built too many 788s and 700s shooting under 1/2 MOA to think otherwise.
 

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What is the "wrong" way to do a second bedding, using too much? I was afraid I wouldn't get a good bond because of release agent on the JBweld but it seems to be ok. I used shoe polish as a release agent. I've only done one gun so I'm far from an expert. I have one to go (probably more in the future) so I don't want to goof. I was going to swab the bedding with alcohol like I did the last time but also make a few shallow holes with one of my small dremel bits, maybe that's overkill. Maybe I will just scuff it up with a pick.
 

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Just clean well with alky and maybe a touch of fine sand paper on the large smooth areas. I have never and will never used JB to bed a rifle so I can't help you there. I have some very strong beliefs about what should be used to bed rifles and JB ain't one of them :rolleyes: Good luck.
 

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The wrong way of bedding twice is adding bedding material to only part of the bedded surface. This can introduce uneven pressure once everything's hardened and the action screws are tightened.

If I were you I'd just wipe it with alcohol or MEK. JB Weld is pretty good about sticking to itself. I have tried JB Weld and I believe that epoxy mixed with some fine cut fiber glass (AKA Acraglass) is best. I don't waste my money on the kits, I just buy 2 ton gel epoxy and fiberglass cloth.
 

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If I were bedding my savage .308 I would get a bedding kit, although the folks at the savage forum use JBweld a lot. I wasn't planning to bed more than one gun, heck I wasn't even planning to bed IT!! When I first came to this forum I thought "boy these people are really anal, I'll never go to all that trouble with a .22"!! Any everything I do is going to be the last thing I do and the last time I do it. Heck, I don't know when I'll be getting my barrel, maybe I should just get one of those kits. I already tried the jb weld and had good luck though.

I just wish I would get the whistle pig barrel I said I'd never get!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Update

First of all, thanks to everyone here who has shared their experience. I appreciate it.

Well, last night I sanded the bedding down to the point that it was level with the barrel channel. I applied a small amount of Acraglas over it then put the barreled action back in. I can tell it will be much better. However, I found that, when the barrel was positioned in the channel for the right amount of free float, the receiver was up off its bedding and quite unstable.

When the receiver was solid in its bedding, the barrel was way too high in the channel. This is all with the take-down screw tightened down snuggly. With no artificial support, the barreled action would see-saw with the screw being the axis.

Unless I'm even more screwed up than I know (a distinct possibility,) this experience tells me that it would probably work best to bed both barrel and receiver at the same time.

All comments and suggestions gratefully accepted.

Thanks,

Mike
 

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Miketuite said:
First of all, thanks to everyone here who has shared their experience. I appreciate it.

Well, last night I sanded the bedding down to the point that it was level with the barrel channel. I applied a small amount of Acraglas over it then put the barreled action back in. I can tell it will be much better. However, I found that, when the barrel was positioned in the channel for the right amount of free float, the receiver was up off its bedding and quite unstable.

When the receiver was solid in its bedding, the barrel was way too high in the channel. This is all with the take-down screw tightened down snuggly. With no artificial support, the barreled action would see-saw with the screw being the axis.

Unless I'm even more screwed up than I know (a distinct possibility,) this experience tells me that it would probably work best to bed both barrel and receiver at the same time.

All comments and suggestions gratefully accepted.

Thanks,

Mike
I'm wondering if the takedown screw is too long. Other possibilities would be not enough material was removed from the barrel channel, I didn't see where you mentioned which stock you used. That would tilt the action in the stock.

If the barrel wasn't centered in the channel when you did the reciever then everything would be off when you went to bed the barrel, the reciever would no longer be "bedded".

I did both back of reciever and barrel at the same time when I did mine because I was very impatient. Whistle pig barrels has embarked on a program to help people like me develop patence apparently so I was thinking about doing it like Mknarr does, mostly so I don't have to worry about the action getting stuck in the stock. I may end up doing it the way I did it the first time, both at the same time. I wrap tape around the end of the barrel so it is centered in the channel even with screw snugged down. If you use thick tape and start at the side of the barrel it may make it crooked in the stock also as one side will only have 3 wraps. I wanted to use self stick silicone tape as it's pretty thick and I "really" hogged my stock out but couldn't find it and wound up using foam tape. I had to do mine twice because I didn't use enough the first time and it really turned out good.

What stock did you use? Did you hog out a factory stock? When you sanded it down the second time you only sanded it level with the barrel channel, it seems like it should have been relieved a little more. I've only done one and am far from an expert though. I may have relieved a little to much this time, I really got carried away.

As long as it fits snug in the stock and wedges in the bedding the same time each time its removed I think it should shoot fine.
 

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This is all good stuff. One thing I never thought of ahead of time, but luckily had no problem is to check for barrel droop BEFORE you do any bedding. Just make sure whatever barrel you are using to do the bedding doesn't droop when torqued down - those screws do not have to be torqued tightly at all... you are not shooting it, you are just holding it in place.

I use car paste wax as a release agent... doesn't stain anything like shoe polish could. Don't forget to put clay or something like that in all the little nooks and crannies around the vblock, etc. too.
 

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I appreciate your info but.. what about; the layer of release agent on the glass before applying 2nd coat-Iknow you must refresh that on the metal???? do you do an alcohol wash?I'm concerned about mineral spirts or any oil base as residue will undoubted left just where you don't want it.
 

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Here we go again Vincent! JB weld for a bedding agent. May as well use Pam too! Makes for a glued together rifle while trying to save a few bucks bedding a rifle you have just spent hundred of bucks on for parts! I will continue to use a proven product.
 

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jrinfoley said:
Here we go again Vincent! JB weld for a bedding agent. May as well use Pam too! Makes for a glued together rifle while trying to save a few bucks bedding a rifle you have just spent hundred of bucks on for parts! I will continue to use a proven product.
I didn't get the impression the rifle was glued together, It sounds like it was not postioned properly in the stock during the bedding process which could have happened with any bedding product. There was another thread a long while back from someone that glued their stock and action together when using a bedding kit. It seems to me that the process is as important, if not more important and the materials.

Disclaimer: I'm not implying I'm an expert or suggesting JBweld is better than the real thing, all I'm saying is mistakes can happen when using any product whos purpose is bonding and strength.
 

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jrinfoley said:
Here we go again Vincent! JB weld for a bedding agent. May as well use Pam too! Makes for a glued together rifle while trying to save a few bucks bedding a rifle you have just spent hundred of bucks on for parts! I will continue to use a proven product.
What is Acraglas?
It's epoxy with fiberglass mixed in right?

What is Brownell's Steel Bed?
Its epoxy with steel powder mixed in.

What's JBWeld?!
JB Weld website said:
We call our resin epoxy steel because it contains fine particles of ironand steel.
So whats wrong with JB Weld? It's just cheap Steel Bed. :rolleyes:
It works. Get over it.
 

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Fumbler, I saw you were mixing glass with the epoxy. Good for you. One of the issues I have with the "homebrew" methods is they use an epoxy w/o filler. I ran some pretty interesting tests years ago that have caused me to stay with the kits. Most people that use epoxy DON"T add glass filler and shrinkage is MUCH greater than Acraglass or gel and it is pretty hard to convince them that it is a mistake.

The other reasons some of us push for kits is that they actually come with instructions and usually the guy who is posting a question has never bedded a rifle before. On top of that the release agent, in my opinion, is better if you are new to this kind of work. When I, and I'm pretty sure the others, push for newbies to use the kits it is for these reasons.

Years ago a very knowledgable gunsmith steered me away from steel or iron filled bedding compounds for a very good reason. They RUST. And being where they are the rust usually isn't caught until it has done damage to the gun. He showed me pictures of a very pretty custom Model 70 that was ruined in one hunting trip due to rusting steel bed. You can get bedding material that has aluminum filler and I would be much more comfortable with that.

It would also be a little nicer if you were to please present your info without the sarcastic "Get over it" :( :1t . That isn't needed in an intelligent discussion.
 
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