[kalbrecht]

My K77/22 VBZ doesn't always extract.Seems to only fail to extract when using Winchester ammo. I haven't had Remington, Federal or CCI fail to extract but probably 10% of winchester cases stay in the chamber when I work the bolt. Winchester T-22's are really bad, Wildcat ammo isn't quite so bad, but it fails to extract once in a while also.

Do I need a new extractor for my rifle, or what do you suggest?
(Yes my rifle is clean)

 

[kalbrecht]

No responses, I'm new here, would I get resonses if I posted somewhere else?

 

[2109]

Are you talking about fired or unfired rounds? If unfired the chamber may be tight for this ammunition and that is why it does not extract, if you are talking about fired rounds it could be the ammo or the extractor, if it is only one type/brand of ammo I would say it is that ammo. For what it's worth.

 

[kalbrecht]

The rifle won't extract approx. 10% winchester fired cases. It pulls them about a 1/4" back but then leaves them stuck in the chamber.

Shouldn't a factory built rifle work with any U.S factory made .22 lr ammo?

On a similar note, doesn't SAAMI have standard chamber drawings that apply to all .22 lr firearm and ammunition manufacturers?

 

[106]

Strange........

kalbrecht,

The problem you are describing is quite unusual...! !

Forgive me, but my first thought was that you are new to shooting, and that you are not pulling the bolt back briskly enough...! !

Beyond that, I would suggest that you put a drop of penetrating oil on each extractor plunger [J-16], and then work each extractor vigorously about 50X...! !

Then, give it a try using the Winchester ammo, and let us know the results...! !

Good Luck...! !

PS: Whoops, I forgot to answer your questions:
0 All new rifles should function perfectly right out of the box...! !
However, they don't....! !
0 All rimfire rifle chambers are reamed to SAAMI specs.; the 77/22 is reamed to the Sporting chamber specs, which means it will accept just about anything...! !
0 I doubt your problem is your chamber...! !

 

[kalbrecht]

Big Mike, I forgive you , I've been shooting for 40 years. My first rifle was a 98 Mauser so I'm not exactly a newcomer to bolt actions.

Last night I took the extractor and cartridge guide out of the bolt, sprayed the parts and recesses with action cleaner, lubed with Rem Oil and reassembled the bolt.

I'll try to get out to the range later this week and see if the problem is solved. I'll post here with the results.

This problem is a new one for me also, thanks for your help.

 

[kalbrecht]

Well, I just got back from the range(only 1 mile away)

No failures to extract with Federal, Remington and CCI .

3 or 4 failures per 10 round clip with Winchester Wildcat and Winchester T-22.

This is silly, I've had rifles before that shot better groups with one brand of ammo but I've never had a rifle that absolutly refuses to digest a certain brand of ammo.

Don't know if its worth sending the rifle back to Ruger for this, the problem is so strange and who knows if they could fix the problem or possibly make it worse.

 

[5808]

Is it possible that it is a problem with the particular lot of winchester ammo that you are using?......I'm not really baseing that on anything but a guess, but isnt it possible that the batch you are using has a defect.......Have you tried winchester ammo from a different lot?

 

[106]

Strange > > > Wierd

kalbrecht,

Big Mike, I forgive you , I've been shooting for 40 years.

Maybe you're just 'mellowing' as you 'mature'....? ?

This has to be ammunition related, and more specifically, the case dimensions, radii, etc. ..! ! Is there any discernable difference in the rim diameters, rim thicknesses, and rim to base-of-case radii between "those that do" verses "those that don't" that you can see...? ?

At this point, I believe the problem is the 'transition radius' from rim to base-of-case on the Winchester ammo, like it was formed on a worn die, and doesn't have a sharp edge to the rim...? ?

As DogTagger has suggested in his Post, you might want to try a different "lot" of Win T-22's or Wildcats from another store.

Don't know if its worth sending the rifle back to Ruger for this, the problem is so strange and who knows if they could fix the problem or possibly make it worse.

I agree with your assessment of a Ruger repair...! !

If your front sight fell off, or the bolt handle broke off, that they do a great job of 'fixing'...! !

However, when it comes to diagnosing 'wierd' problems, well, they are just "parts replacers"...! !

Give us a 'few shots' at solving your problem, and if we fail, there is always Ruger...! !

 

[kalbrecht]

Dog tagger,Big Mike, I too am begining to thik it's the ammo. It's funny that it occurs with both wildcat and T-22 Winchester ammo.

I think tonight I'll get my dial caliper out an take some measurements. The Winchester rims do seem smaller.

Big Mike you are right, I am mellowing as I mature.

 

[106]

Headstamps

kalbrecht,

It's funny that it occurs with both Wildcat and T-22 Winchester ammo.

Do they both have the same headstamp...? ? If so, it could be a worn brass drawing die problem...! !

Brass is drawn in HUGE lots of several millions of cases, and then it is shipped to the loading plants for the actual manufacture of the .22 ammunition, often with different loadings:
0 Priming
0 Power charging
0 Bullet seating
0 Inspection (?)
0 Packaging

Let us know what you find....

Mellowing as we mature..........

 

[kalbrecht]

Well, I measured a bunch of cases tonight, rim diameter and rim thickness were all the same between rem, cci and winchester. Case body diameter on the winchester cases was about half a thousandth greater than remington or cci.

The only real significant difference I could see was that the junction between the case body and the upper rim is rounded and the surface is sloped on the winchester cases. the remington and cci cases have a sharp junction between the case body and the upper rim and the surface is flat.

All winchester cases are headstamped Super X. Obviously different lots.

Looks like I may have some questionable winchester ammo, but my kids ruger 10-22 digests them just fine.

I sure would like to have my rifle be capable of shooting all brands of ammo. Does anybody knw if aftermarket extractors and cartridge guides are available for the 77/22?

 

[cjsdad]

Just a thought here but I had a problem with a 10-22LR that I converted to .22Magnum throwing the ejector. It was also having a few failures to extract and eject. Seems the spring under the ejector was a little weak and the increased force of the blowback was allowing the spring to compress and let it slip out. I put a spacer under the spring and that tightened the spring enough that all problems have been cured with ejection and extraction as well as extractor retension.

What does all of this have to do with your 77-22 you ask. Maybe the extractor spring could use some more tension. If I remember correctly the 77-22 and 10-22 use the same primary extractor so either a VQ Exact Edge extractor would work for you or you could do the same fix that I did and put a spacer under the spring. Make sure that your factory extractor tooth is sharp and clean too.

I found that a common framing nail is the perfect size for the hole so simply cut the appropriate length spacer and drop it down under the spring and reassymble. Since it is a non-wearing part it does not need to be hardened or even steel for that matter. Just keep it clean and lubed to prevent it from rusting.

 

[kalbrecht]

cjsdad, The extractor on a 77/22 appears to be altogether different than the one on a 10/22, I don't think they are interchangeable. When I removed the extractor from my 77/22 the spring appeared to be very robust, in fact I had a heck of a time reassembling it. I'd hate to try to reassemble it with a stronger spring.
Anyway, since no one else had experienced these kind of failures I finally sent the rifle back to Ruger with the instructions "Don't send it back until it's 100% reliable". When I find out Ruger's fix and if it works I will post here.
Thanks all

 

[106]

'worn brass drawing die'

kalbrecht,

The only real significant difference I could see was that the junction between the case body and the upper rim is rounded and the surface is sloped on the winchester cases.

This is indicative of a 'worn brass drawing die', and is most probably the root cause of your extraction problems...! !

Let us know what "Ruger" has to say.....! !

 

[kalbrecht]

Big Mike, I sent some samples of the fired cases to Ruger with the rifle. I will let you know.

 

[kalbrecht]

I got my rifle back from Ruger today. Acording to the repair tag they replaced the extractor, cartridge support and firing pin. No charge for parts or labor and the shipped it back for free!

I took it to the range tonight and ran a box of the suspect Winchester Wildcat ammo through it. Not one single failure to extract.

Ruger is a great company to deal with!:t

 

[106]

77/22 Extracts Now...! !

kalbrecht,

Great.....! !