[52406]

Hey guys, I'm extremely new to this. Please don't kill me for asking a question that I'm sure has already been asked (but I was unable to find using a search).

I am interested in getting a small caliber rifle for target shooting, varmint sniping, and just having fun. And maybe if I have kids someday, something that could be fun to teach them on.

From what little I've found on the internet so far, I think that I like the .17HMR more than the .17HM2.

I am also interested in a .22LR.

What are the pros and cons of each? From what I've found, the .22LR is easier to obtain and more common than the .17HMR, however the .17HRM has a longer effective range than the .22LR?

I'm not necessarily looking for a specific rifle right now (although I do have a few models in mind), I'm looking for more of a, "why choose this one over that one?"

Thoughts? Input?

I'll be honest, I will be putting a scope on it. I would also like to add a bi-pod and suppressor to make it more of a relaxing experience. I know that a lot of people would frown on this, but I do enjoy the comfort all of this can provide.

Thank you very much for your time and understanding.

PS ~ I'm a noob when it comes to weapon terminology and knowledge. So if you want to "break it down shotgun style" for me, it would be greatly appreciated.
Chuck

 

[Garys4598]

You didn't convey whether you own any other firearms... you implied that you own no rifles, but haven't shared what sort of knowledge you have with rifles.

So, I guess what I'm driving at... If this is your very first rifle (not to mention firearm in general), I personally would strongly recommend the .22LR over the 17HMR. You mentioned that, "...maybe if I have kids someday, something that could be fun to teach them on..." In my humble opinion, there is no better rifle caliber for such an endeavor. The .22LR has 'stood the test of time' whereas the .17HMR is arguably one of the new kids on the block and who knows? If/when you have kids down the road.... the .17HMR may not be readily available whereas I'd roll-over in my grave were such true for the .22LR.

Just my two-cents mind you.

 

[Bangflop]

Compare the price of .22 ammo to .17hmr. That in itself may
be enough to help your decision.

 

[bscman]

22lr is about 1/8th the price of 17HMR.

17HMR has a longer range, is faster/flatter shooting, and inherently more accurate. It'll do everything the 22lr will do, but at twice the distance.

There are a LOT more choices for ammo out there for 22lr, as well as a LOT more firearms chambered for it both new and old.

With 22lr you can choose between $1.25 per 50 ammo or $12.50 per 50 ammo, and everything in between. There is literally a round for anything you might need....from ~350fps all the way to 1,700+ fps in all shapes and sizes. The HMR only has a handful of choices.

22lr is quite a bit less noisy, and has rounds avaible that are darn near silent from a rifle.

A 22lr can be had sub-sonic, so it can be very quiet out of a rifle with a "moderator" or "silencer" where the HMR will still have a lot of noise and the "supersonic crack" as it exits the barrel.

Everyone and their mother should have a 22lr.

The 17HMR is really only of interest to those searching for great down range, or those fairly serious about varmint control...for plinking, or teaching "newbies" to shoot, it's an expensive round.

FWIW, the 17HM2 will do just about everything the HMR will do inside 100yds...but at 1/2 to 1/3 the price. It is just as accurate at 100yds.

If I had to do it over again I'd buy a HM2 over the HMR any day. $4-5 per box vs. $10-13 per box is appealing. I've been very let down with the HMR in terms of hunting....not everything it was hyped up to be. The HM2 would do everything I use it for now (paper punching) and would be cheaper to shoot!
I'd take my 22WMR over the HMR anyday (in terms of field use).

Most entry level rifles in the HMR chambering are running $175+ while entry level 22lr's can be had for about $115. The price scale continues, with the 22lr being a bit cheaper. For the price of the rifle, and the price of the ammo, you can truly justify buying both if you really wanted. They each have their unique perks.

Personally, I'd opt for a 22lr if you're planning on a silencer.
Heck, I'd opt for a 22lr period as you mention it being your first. Learn and Practice and pick up more rifles as time goes on. Rimfire is CHEAP.

 

[Dust_Remover]

If this is your first rifle ever, definately go with the .22LR. That was my first rifle, and it'll be my daughters first rifle, and the baby due in September's first rifle. .22's are so quiet anyway, save your money on the supressor and spend it on a upgraded rifle and or scope. If a .22 is too loud for you w/o earplugs, then you need to go outside because you are probly shooting indoors. My personal recommendation for a rifle would be a Savage Mark II BTVS (if you like thumbhole stocks), or any of the variations that have the heavy barrel.

I have both (17 and 22) and I still shoot the .22 more because I can shoot it in my backyard without the neighbors getting upset.

Branden

 

[FiremanFrank]

Accuracy

As far as accuracy goes, if you look through the thread on the .17 HMR fun challenge you will see only one guy who made it at 50 yards and I did it at 100. It took me many tries to make it at 100 yards and ( 4 shots in 1", 2 groups on a page) and I never did make the 50 yard challenge (which is 2, 5 shot groups under .300") and I have shot probably 30 different 2 group sets. The ammo isn't up to the cartridge's potential as the quality control isn't there yet.
In regards to the .22, I made the same challenge easily at 50 and 100 yards with just a couple attempts (I think I fired 3 or 4, two group pages) and I did better than with my .17. I think unless you are doing long range varmint shooting the .22 is the hands down favorite. By the way, both the .17 HMR and the .22 are otherwise the same Savage MK. II heavy barrel models so I didn't slip in my Anschutz for this.
You also have the option with the .22 of going to the local Wal-mart and buying bulk .22 for plinking at a very cheap price. You can get 500 rounds of the cheap bulk for the same price as one box of 50 rounds of .17 HMR.

Just my opinion and good luck with your decision.

- Frank

 

[jeffd818]

I picked a .22lr for my first rifle. It is versitile, cheap, and a blast. The .17 hmr is better than the .17 hm2 in my opinion. For a target, varmint hunter, the .17hmr wins, for a cheap fun plinker the .22 is better. Of course, there are extremely accurate .22s but the .17 goes faster, farther and is a great critter gitter. The .22 is pretty much the universal teach your kids to shoot round however, so if htat is a big consideration, go for that.

 

[pmullineaux]

the 17 hmr, is not for plinking or target practice in my opinion; it is for hunting. It is 15 dollars a box for ammo. If you wanna plink, and spend all day on the range, or in the field , get a 22; ammo can still be had for 2 dollars a box. Plus you can get used 22 rifles for under 100 bucks, that can't be beat.
matter of fact, you could get a used 22, a decent scope, and a bunch of ammo, for 200 bucks alltogether. That will be the cost of your 17 hmr rifle alone.

 

[pmullineaux]

P.S., the 17mach 2 is better than the hmr, for the same reasons listed above for a 22, except the rifle will be more, and ammo will be 4 to 7 bucks a box, depending on where you get it.

 

[rpbill56]

HM2, it's the best of both.
Bill

 

[52406]

Holy crap Batman, that's a lot of replies! You guys rock!

Thank you for everyone's input! Of course if you guys or anyone else still has more they wish to say, please do so. I enjoyed what you guys had to say.

So it pretty much sounds like the general consensus is to go with the .22LR. Cool, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I guess it goes to show that the .22LR has been huge in popularity for a reason.

To answer Garys4598:

You didn't convey whether you own any other firearms... you implied that you own no rifles, but haven't shared what sort of knowledge you have with rifles.

I do own a pistol. Its a Ruger P97DC in a .45ACP (which by the way I'm looking to sell, if you're in Oregon and you're interested, let me know). Other than that, I own no other firearms and have never owned any other firearms. My SWMBO is interested in getting a pistol for self defense, and I've been interested in getting the Walther P99 in the .40 for a long time now. I've fired it a few times and loved it! But I'm getting off topic...

Gary, you are correct, I own no rifles. My biggest experience with rifles would be the M16A2 from the Marines (I got out of the Corps in 2002). I have fired a few hunting rifles, however we never ran into any game.

I also have some experience in handling SMG's, which is where my love for suppressors came from. I know there was at least one gentleman that said to save my money on one, but its going to happen anyways. Thank you for your input also!

For another thing that Garys4598 touched on:

If/when you have kids down the road.... the .17HMR may not be readily available whereas I'd roll-over in my grave were such true for the .22LR.

Forgive my noobness... but would the same still be true if I said I was interested in loading my own ammo? I understand that the .17HMR could not be as readily available, but if you were loading your own, you could always create it? (If I am wrong in this, please correct me)

I really do appreciate everyone's help and two cents. Please feel free to keep this discussion going, and if it happens to morph into "what your favorite .22LR is," then that's cool with me also. I think after reading all what you gents had to say, I am leaning more towards the .22LR.

And since it's what got me started on thinking about getting a small caliber rifle, how about tossing your two cents in on the Walther G22. It's the specific rifle that got me interested.
Chuck

 

[rcrdps]

Just an FYI,... the general concensus here is going to be that it is impossible to "reload" or "handload" rimfire. If you can reload, get you a .223.

There is of course the debate about 17HMR vs 22LR in accuracy. Here's the kicker, it will take a very nice( high$$$) 22LR to beat a 17HMR. I picked my 17HMR up for $180 from Wal Mart and put a cheap Simmons scope( also from Wal Mart) on it. The first day shooting, I could split a twig from 100yds no problem( I had to do that to get the cup I was shooting at to fall). That's no modifications whatsoever to the gun. I highly doubt you could do that with a cheap 22lr.

So yes, the 17HMR is defintiely way cool. But you can't beat the ammo price of 22LR. And like was mentioned, you can't really "silence" a supersonic round.

Now,.. for the bad side of the 17HMR. It might be "cheap",.. but I've seen bulk .223 for the same price as 17HMR. The 223 rifle will cost you more, but the ammo won't. And if you're reloading, it will probably be cheaper than 17.

So get the 22,... then later on, skip the 17, and get a 223.

As far as the g22, I've not read anything really good about it, but I do favor a bullpup design also. I've been looking at the Dixie Consolidated, but he is behind 6 weeks on production. Also, you'll need a 10/22 to stick in it.

If you don't decide on the g22, go to the gun shows and find your 22 there. You don't need a new one. You're going to be upgrading everything on it anyways. BTW, I picked up my 10/22 for $150 from a gun show.

Gene

 

[52406]

Just an FYI,... the general concensus here is going to be that it is impossible to "reload" or "handload" rimfire. If you can reload, get you a .223.

There is of course the debate about 17HMR vs 22LR in accuracy. Here's the kicker, it will take a very nice( high$$$) 22LR to beat a 17HMR. I picked my 17HMR up for $180 from Wal Mart and put a cheap Simmons scope( also from Wal Mart) on it. The first day shooting, I could split a twig from 100yds no problem( I had to do that to get the cup I was shooting at to fall). That's no modifications whatsoever to the gun. I highly doubt you could do that with a cheap 22lr.

So yes, the 17HMR is defintiely way cool. But you can't beat the ammo price of 22LR. And like was mentioned, you can't really "silence" a supersonic round.

Now,.. for the bad side of the 17HMR. It might be "cheap",.. but I've seen bulk .223 for the same price as 17HMR. The 223 rifle will cost you more, but the ammo won't. And if you're reloading, it will probably be cheaper than 17.

So get the 22,... then later on, skip the 17, and get a 223.

As far as the g22, I've not read anything really good about it, but I do favor a bullpup design also. I've been looking at the Dixie Consolidated, but he is behind 6 weeks on production. Also, you'll need a 10/22 to stick in it.

If you don't decide on the g22, go to the gun shows and find your 22 there. You don't need a new one. You're going to be upgrading everything on it anyways. BTW, I picked up my 10/22 for $150 from a gun show.

Gene

Great idea on the gun show! I must be a little slow, I can't believe I didn't think of that.

As far as the .223... I think due to my hatred of the M16, you will probably never see me fire a .223 again!

Good information though, I will keep it under consideration.

Oh yeah, thanks for the heads up on the loading/reloading info on rimfires. So that goes to answer the question I asked Garys4598.

 

[51239]

Consider the .22WMR in a Marlin or Savage. A little cheaper than the .17HMR, hits harder at just about the same range.

 

[rcrdps]

A little more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_G22

Looks to be a pretty sweet gun. Kinda pricey.

 

[52406]

A little more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_G22

Looks to be a pretty sweet gun. Kinda pricey.

I hadn't seen the Wikipedia article yet, thanks.

Since it brought it up, I feel that I should ask... Wikipedia said,

Experience has shown that the G22 typically experiences feeding problems with high velocity ammunition, due to the fact that the bolt assembly is not quite heavy enough, and is thrown back too vigorously, often rebounding into the casing still being ejected from the narrow ejection port.

Is one able to replace the bolt assembly with a heavier one? In fact, is this rifle customizable at all, other than putting on a laser dot, scope, bi-pod and suppressor?

Nice info rcrdps.

 

[rcrdps]

I'm no expert on the G22,... but I doubt it. The 10/22 is really the only "easily" customizable 22 out there. Anything can be done with a machineshop, but I doubt there are a bunch of readily available aftermarket parts for it.

You'd probably be better off looking for heavier springs. That should be easy to come by if you don't mind buying a bunch of random springs.

Gene

 

[52406]

I'm no expert on the G22,... but I doubt it. The 10/22 is really the only "easily" customizable 22 out there. Anything can be done with a machineshop, but I doubt there are a bunch of readily available aftermarket parts for it.

As much as I love playing around in the Machine shop, right now the only access I have to a machine shop is the local Community College. They have very strict rules against working on any type of part that is for a weapon.

I guess back in the day there was a local gun smithing college in the area (so I've been told). They used to come over and use the machine shop at the college, until some friggin hippy lost their mind and screamed bloody murder. That was the end of that!

Not to get too far off topic, but where would one go to learn gun smithing? Man that would be a fun hobby! I would prefer to go to some place local (I'm just North of Salem Oregon) vs. doing some distance learning course.

You'd probably be better off looking for heavier springs. That should be easy to come by if you don't mind buying a bunch of random springs.

LOL, good to know! Thanks Chief!

 

[rcrdps]

I think VoTec schools tend to teach it. Don't know though, I just bought a lathe and started playing. I'm learning. On the thought of making a heavier bolt, you better make sure you have some really good cutting bits,.. like maybe carbide tipped. I tried boring some holes in my 10/22 bolt so that I could fill them with lead. My TiN coated bits would only "polish" the surface. Probably removing some of the temper would've helped, but I didn't want to have to try to re-temper it. I went the heavier spring route instead.

Gene

 

[52406]

I think VoTec schools tend to teach it. Don't know though, I just bought a lathe and started playing. I'm learning. On the thought of making a heavier bolt, you better make sure you have some really good cutting bits,.. like maybe carbide tipped. I tried boring some holes in my 10/22 bolt so that I could fill them with lead. My TiN coated bits would only "polish" the surface. Probably removing some of the temper would've helped, but I didn't want to have to try to re-temper it. I went the heavier spring route instead.

Gene

Why would you be using a TiN coated HSS tool? From my experience, I only use carbide. HSS is only an absolute last resort for me.

As far as the TiN goes, I have rarely gotten good results using that on hardened steel. Maybe its just a personal thing.

Explain your setup to me a little bit more... I assume when you say you bought a lathe, you're talking about a manual (vs. a CNC). What kind? Are you using coolant? Whats the length of your cutting tool, and how far are you "choked up" on it?