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I have a 25+ yr old rossi pump .22 short barrel rifle, been cleaned once about 8 yrs ago, always kept it in my garage behind my toolbox incase some tweety bird would come along and annoy me.

A few yrs ago a buddy was looking to borrow it to rid his yard of some rabbits,
needed .22 short as not to alarm his neighbors. So I loaded up the tubular mag
and said this thing is a tack driver with open sights, have fun.

About 3 weeks later at 6am one morning I get a panic call to come over his place and help him tow a dead cow out of his driveway, We live in open range az. He woke up to this cow in his yard and grabs the .22 and aims at the cows *****, the .22 short goes over the cows butt and hits it back side of its head, dropped him like a fly. Big fine if cought! Towed it out into desert before sun rise, coyotes ate her up in a few days.

Never underestimate the power of .22 cal.
Are you stating that this guy lives in open range where it was legal for this cow to be?
And he killed a cow legally lingering and eating and you assisted in illegally getting rid of the body? And you're posting that here?
 

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so what? I quess I conspired to commit murder, but it was an accedent officer!
Better call in PETA!
Here is a link to a simular situation in Arizona where a guy fired a 22 at a herd of cows on his property and killed a cow.

He faces 2 years in prison.Also claims he didnt mean to kill it, only to scare it off.

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/htmlres/openrange_press3.htm

After looking further it seems after a long legal battel Mr. Knudson took his own life .sad really
 

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there is no doubt ...that a .22lr can kill.....But ...say yr in a gas station payin for your gas and whatever....guy comes in with gun and you feel your life is in danger....you and he get into gun fight....youve been lucky enuff to hit him before he hit you now hes shooting back as the .22 didnt drop him as a larger caliber could have.....then he gets lucky with his stolen .357 and hits you center mass........get my point .....if your gonna carry a gun for protection carry something big enuff to handle the job......yes a .22 can kill but when your life or the life of wife and kids hang in the balance its important to hit the bad guy hard and end the fight as fast as possible.....if your set on carry a mouse gun thats your right......Me I carry .45 or .357 mag Ive had to pull my gun before and I'm sure as hell glad it wasnt a .22
 

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She shot her home invader in the bedroom. He made it to the yard and died. :bthumb:
I would use a 22. No problem.;)
My problem with this is that she shot him in the bedroom, and he made it outside. What would have been there to stop him had he been strung out on drugs, looking for money to make a buy, or high on something that would have reduced his pain sensation? He might very well have taken the gun and used it on the lady. I don't watch it much any more, but I used to be a real fan of the TV Show COPS, and how many times would someone say 'Oh yeah, I've been shot with a 9mm', a couple of them more than once.

So, as Szumi said, placement is everything.

The .22 in question is quite able to kill your assailant if shots are properly placed. How much damage your assailant does to you before he expires may put you in an expired condition.

No one that is even slightly close to sane wants to get shot so a real gun with real bullets has some practicality no matter how small the caliber. Not all assailants are sane.

I can't give you a cite but I've heard it passed around that your accuracy drops off 4x or more under stress so counting on well placed shots isn't practical.

If you have a the .22 bersa I think you have, it is the same size as the bigger .380. I have a Bersa 95 and it has been excellent.

The .380 with the spendy defense loads seems to be the low water point for those that want their gun to be comfortable rather than comforting. (Sorry Clint)

I'll be carrying a 442 air weight today.

Szumi
Remember the video of the police officer pulling over that Chevy Suburban with the criminals in it? If I recall, they said 27 rounds fired for no hits. Maybe it was two police officers. But, still, here is a trained LEO with a hi cap pistol, and he can't hit a target just feet from him? Yes, I understand the people were shooting back, but a lot of it is 'heat of the battle.'

Statistics on gunfights involving police officers show that at under five yds away from their opponents, they miss more often that they hit.

It's fantasy to think I'm gonna do much better, so no .22 for me.
Usually, I would be willing to guess, in those cases, the target was also armed and probably going to shoot back. I don't think most self defense shootings have both sides armed.

Have you ever heard of a "Mall Ninja?"

HEY! Where'd you get a picture of my rifle? :p

My feelings. Different guns for different situations. At home, my .45 is handy, and I'll grab that if I have time. A thousand square foot, two bedroom condo isn't going to give me too much time to react. Since I don't keep the shotguns nearby, those are out.

Carry weapon has been either a 9mm or a .45, but I'm thinking a .22LR might, in some cases, be a better choice, from the carry perspective. If so, it'll get loaded with Stingers or Velocitors.

No doubt a .45 ACP 230 grain JHP will do some damage.


Here's a Hornady 9mm.


This is the Aguila 60gr SSS. I'm not impressed.


On the other hand, a Velocitor does impress me somewhat. This is fired from a 10/22.


This is fired from a Walther P22.


For those of you who's states allow it, try the .50BMG. :D


For the rest of you, the .44Mag should work almost as well.


Ever wonder what happens to that deer you just shot, internally? Here's a .308.


Gary
 

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No doubt the larger calibers make great sense.

But aside from folks on the 'net, most people don't live in a ranch house in the middle of 2sq miles of space or in the Last House on the Left on a forested logging road.

I have neighbors 360`all around, with 30' seperating houses to the right or left. I don't want to get arrested for dropping my neighbors kid while shooting at a shadow.
 

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so what? I quess I conspired to commit murder, but it was an accedent officer!
Better call in PETA!
Actually; You aided and abetted in the commission of a felony involving a firearm.

Then, you admitted the crime on an open forum.
 

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No doubt the larger calibers make great sense.

But aside from folks on the 'net, most people don't live in a ranch house in the middle of 2sq miles of space or in the Last House on the Left on a forested logging road.

I have neighbors 360`all around, with 30' seperating houses to the right or left. I don't want to get arrested for dropping my neighbors kid while shooting at a shadow.
For house protection ......A 12 guage with #2's or copper plated BB's will do the job very well also a .38 speacil standard pressure with 110gr hollow pts....I myself use #4 buck shot as my barrel will hold about a basket ball size pattern at the distances I would need in my home ....and nothing gives the intruder that oh $hit feeling more than hearing that 12 gauge rack one into the chamber......not many dirt bags have walked away or retuened fire once hit with a full load ...If all you have is a .22 well its better than nothing but as soon as cash allows I would be getting something better siuted to the task at hand.....The whole key to self defense is to end the situation as fast as possible .....more often than not a .22 cant be counted on to do that......some people will debate the .22 usefullness for SD till the end .......Bigger is better always .....use the heavyest slug for caliber that u can find ....practice often and hope and pray that you never need it.....Takeing someones life wehter justified or not will change yours forever
 

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S.s.s.

About that story about helping dispose of the cow that some fool killed with a .22:

This calls for the SSS plan. Shoot (which your friend did alone), Shovel (which you helped him with), and Shut up (which you are both supposed to keep doing, forver.)

You violated the third part. That's half of the two parts you were involved in.
And it only took you a couple weeks. Remind me never to call you to help get me out of a mess!! :D
 

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Itd never be my first choice, but if I was accosted on the way home from a steel challenge match, I would be OK using it.

Only problem is I'd probably instinctively empty the mag into the perp.

25 rounds of 36g HP .22's would likely ruin your day..and your shirt....and the rug.
 

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Re: Self Defense, i CAN carry more than a .22- so I do. Not just for more power, but also, more reliability (in semiauto).

However, most criminals are cowards at heart. They (usually) prey on those they think are weaker, unsuspecting, etc.

I suspect the SOUND (much less getting winged by even a ,22) of a firearm being fired in their direction will change a lot of their decisions about continuing.

Yes, this does not address the Mutant Biker Zombie attacks or the hopped-up-on-crack-failure-to-register-pain scenarios. But Im just suggesting in general, ANY firearm will tilt the table considerably vs no firearm.

So, if all I could carry was a .22- I'd be doing it for sure.
 

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Okay, I know a few pages ago I said a handgun for home defense should at least be in the .38 special/9mm range (I ultimately want a .357 magnum), but financially a .22 makes more sense for me. Now, when I say financially I mean after buying the gun (what I'm looking at isn't exactly cheap) as a larger caliber would require a decent commute to a range, fees at said range, higher ammo prices and etc while a 22 can be fired at my pistol club just blocks away for significantly less. So, despite increasing crime in the area, getting anything bigger than a 22 would lead to it becoming a paperweight majority of the time and then I would have to hope I'm familiar enough with the weapon not to mess up under pressure and on top of that hope it even functions since I wouldn't be able to properly break it in for awhile.

Now, I want a .22 primarily for the range, but with there always being that risk someone may try to break in and attack me, I wanted to at least have the option to use the heavier 22 magnum, so a Single Six is at the top of my list. Yeah, I know I also spoke out against SA revolvers, but I have since fired a Taurus Tracker and now feel all DA revolvers may not actually be superior to SA in terms of firing speed, though it definitely have the edge in reload speed. Also, I plan on practicing on working the action two-handed (offhand cocking, but not to the extreme of fanning as I don't want to break it, lol) just for fun anyway, so that'd be a nice skill to have, especially with the weaker recoil of a 22.

Anyway, now I'm just pondering if it would be smarter to get one of those 45 grain defense rounds (which I imagine would be more expensive & harder to find), a regular 22 WMR or up it to a 50 grain? I also wonder if those pointed bullets provide any benefits in such a situation as I don't know what type of ballistic tip they use?
 

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Okay, I know a few pages ago I said a handgun for home defense should at least be in the .38 special/9mm range (I ultimately want a .357 magnum), but financially a .22 makes more sense for me. Now, when I say financially I mean after buying the gun (what I'm looking at isn't exactly cheap) as a larger caliber would require a decent commute to a range, fees at said range, higher ammo prices and etc while a 22 can be fired at my pistol club just blocks away for significantly less. So, despite increasing crime in the area, getting anything bigger than a 22 would lead to it becoming a paperweight majority of the time and then I would have to hope I'm familiar enough with the weapon not to mess up under pressure and on top of that hope it even functions since I wouldn't be able to properly break it in for awhile.

Now, I want a .22 primarily for the range, but with there always being that risk someone may try to break in and attack me, I wanted to at least have the option to use the heavier 22 magnum, so a Single Six is at the top of my list. Yeah, I know I also spoke out against SA revolvers, but I have since fired a Taurus Tracker and now feel all DA revolvers may not actually be superior to SA in terms of firing speed, though it definitely have the edge in reload speed. Also, I plan on practicing on working the action two-handed (offhand cocking, but not to the extreme of fanning as I don't want to break it, lol) just for fun anyway, so that'd be a nice skill to have, especially with the weaker recoil of a 22.

Anyway, now I'm just pondering if it would be smarter to get one of those 45 grain defense rounds (which I imagine would be more expensive & harder to find), a regular 22 WMR or up it to a 50 grain? I also wonder if those pointed bullets provide any benefits in such a situation as I don't know what type of ballistic tip they use?
Regarding DA vs SA. It is a matter of practice. Have you ever seen Jerry Miculek shoot a S&W 617 22LR?


There are defensive 22LR rounds including hollow point. CCI Velocitors. 40 grain semi-hollow point can do the job. With 22lr, placement of shots is important but for most bad guys, being shot at is enough deterent, being hit, helps more.
 
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