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Old 11-07-2014, 04:03 PM
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Post Turner Bench Rest build



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A couple months ago Turmite, Mike Turner, and I started a collaboration on a new, to Turner Customs, version of a bench rest stock. A few days later Mike sent me this CAD rendering of the stock.



Without going into a lot of details; mill problems frustrated Mike for the next 2 months or so. Now it seems that the problem are behind him.

This morning Mike sent me these photos of the first stock cut with the new program. There are a couple things to say about this specific stock.

It's not available for sale. I bought it!
It would be considered 'paint grade' due to being slightly off center. Procedures contributed to the mis-alignment.
The stock was sanded with 80 grit to blend some tool marks.










Ill be adding dimensions and weight as soon as I have them available.
Fore end width 3"

Copied directly from Turmite's email.
Length overall 32.5" more or less
LOP 13.5 before buttplate addition
Fore end height 1.725
Butt stock height 3.72
Fore end Length 10.356
Weight??? Unfinished. No idea, but guessing about 3.5 lbs

I'll post more photos when I have the stock in hand and mount one of my barreled actions in the stock.

Then bedding, finishing maybe even some shooting results.

Down the line a bit, there will be a second stock and barreled action added to this thread. It will be cherry, figured maple and spalted sycamore.

***11/22/2014***
The stock shown above arrived at my place this week. Work has kept me from making any progress until today.
The stock will be bedded and pillared. I am using a combination of Raven Eye pillar bedding parts, along with some generic hardware bought at McMaster Carr.

Here is a photo of the parts used to attach the rear tang. This one is a bit different as the screw comes up from the bottom.
The bit on the left is a binding post nut. They come in various sizes and threads. I picked a 10/24 as I wanted the bottom OD, of the binding post nut, to fit the ID of the rear tang. Some filing is required.
The other parts are from the Raven Eye kit. I didn't use the Raven Eye pillar as I had another laying around that required less filing.



This is the bottom view showing the escutcheon and the bolt.



Here is the home made pillar sitting in place.



Nothing is glued in yet. But soon.
More when something happens. Waiting on some pieces.

***11/25/2014***
Here is a photo of the receiver inletting as the stock comes off the mill.


The inletting is very tight when using a Kidd receiver, not so much so when using a Ruger receiver.

***11/28/2014***
Here is how I modified the use of the Kidd rear tang so that you insert the screw from the bottom of the stock. If anyone decides to do this modification one word of advice. Be sure of your thread sizes and O.D.s when ordering the parts. I haven't researched the availability and compatibility of these parts with the standard take down screw or it's escutcheon. Just make sure your bits with fit together.
First a photo of the finished product.



Up above I have a photo of the pieces needed to attach the rear tang from the bottom. Here is a photo with a bit of narrative about each part.



One key piece to this puzzle is the Binding Post Barrel/Nut. The one shown has a barrel O.D. just under .250 but the screw head is too large to fit into the Kidd rear tang. Chuck the part up in the drill press and turn the screw head down until it fits nicely. Once the Barrel/Nut fits correctly, set it aside for a while. You want it to end up like this.



You now need to get the stock ready for the parts.
First operation is to locate and drill the hole from the rear tang down through the stock. Just be careful, use masking tape, when drilling out the bottom of the stock. I used a small drill, 1/8 ", to mark the hole, then opened it up as necessary. You need to do the following in whatever order makes sense to you;

1. Enlarge the bottom of the hole for the escutcheon of your choice.
2. If you use the Raven Eye escutcheon, as I did, you will need to open the hole for the larger screw to pass through.
3. Drill the thru hole for the rear tang screw.
4. Enlarge the top of the hole to fit the pillar you are going to modify in the next step.
5. Turn down and shorten the pillar to fit. Again I chucked the pillar in the drill press and turned it down. Then I used the ol' Dremel tool to shorten the pillar to the correct length. Trim and try it, repeat until golden.
6. Dry fit it all together. Remember the height of the rear pillar must be correct for the front pillar. Don't go with the epoxy too soon. Get it all to fit correctly first. The height of the rear pillar and the front pillar are the critical points. Be sure both pillars are slightly proud of the wood.
When everything fits correctly you can epoxy in the escutcheons, pillars and any spacers you may have needed. You want solid metal from the escutcheon to the top of the pillar.
7. At some point, you need to rough up the inside of the rear tang where the barrel, of the Binder Post Nut, will go. Also, rough up the barrel nut. Epoxy this part in place inside the rear tang. Release agent on the screw, some spacers and pull it all tight. The rear tang does not need to be on the receiver to do this.
Line up the screw driver slot when you epoxy the nut in. It will look lots better than if askew. Note the one shown in the photo above is not glued in yet.

That is kind of it for the rear tang mods. I'm starting to work on a butt plate at the moment. Here is a photo of where I am at the moment, no sanding has been done, nothing has been epoxied in other than the binding post nut.



***11/29/2014***
I have this stock sanded to 220 and have fashioned a butt plate and fore end cap along with a black plastic spacer for each end. The photo below showing the stock as it sits today, the stock has been wiped with mineral spirits for the photo.



A couple tips, for those who will end up finishing one of these stocks.

A rattle can of Rustoleom paint has the exact radius needed to sand the concave surface between the flat on the bottom of the fore end and the top of the stock. A piece of the correct grit sandpaper and some masking tape are all you need. Well, plus the elbow grease.



A second tip. When fitting a butt plate, pistol grip cap or fore end cap; if the stock has any irregularities, like high spots, that keep the plate from getting perfectly flat contact, you don't have to get out the cross cut saw to clean it up. Use either your dremel with a sanding drum or a very sharp paring chisel and relieve some of the wood in the affected area. Just, be sure to, stay inside of the edge by 1/4 " and trim away. In a minute or so you will have a perfect fit for your plate.

Speaking of plates. Butt plate and fore end cap with black plastic spacers.




It's bedding time for this stock. The bedding discussion, for whatever it is, will be in Post #2.
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Last edited by Bill40718; 12-06-2014 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Corrections of my mistakes. I'll try to make corrections in red.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:04 PM
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Bedding this Turner stock.

As discussed, implied or whatever, somewhere in Post #1, I did have to open the inletting, on this stock, a small amount to get the receiver to fit without an unusual application of force. Kidd receivers seem to be a bit fatter than a Ruger receiver. I took about .005" to .010" off each side of the receiver inletting and a lesser amount where the trigger group fits the inletting. This sanding was to achieve a fit that you would want for a non-bedded, or maybe pillars only, fit of the action to the stock. As you will see in the following photos I removed a bunch more in the areas where I'll have the bedding.
About bedding. I don't think this stock really needs to be bedded. The front and rear pillars are solid from top to escutcheon and hold the stock tightly in place, with no strain or torqueing. But I'm going to bed the rear tang, the front action screw area and about 1" forward of the action screw. This is mostly so that I can be a bit gentler with, the relatively light, action screws; which have not been replaced with the ubiquitous 1/4 - 20 screw.

Below is a photo showing the drilled, chiseled, gouged, Dremeled and otherwise defiled areas that the Devcon will be placed. The folded paper, 2 thicknesses of 80# paper, is my highly accurate free float gauge. If it goes, I'm good. If I can double it and it goes, I'm still good. If I can quadruple it and it goes,.... well you get the idea. There isn't too much free float until it looks ugly.



A closer look at the forward bedding area.



And the rear tang area. I don't have a mill and cool cutters like Azguy but I still managed to get a groove cut into both sides of the rear tang to anchor that Devcon in place. An old, i.e. worn down, Dremel cut off wheel works fine. Just be careful.



It's not easily visible in the photos, of the front bedding area, but there are numerous anchor holes bored into the sides of the front screw area. The anchor holes show well in the rear tang area. There isn't really a rule, or standard, about these anchor holes. I just poke them in here and there, but try to end up with 8, or so, in each bedding area.

Everything that can be taped is taped. I don't like to clean up Devcon all over the stock. Of course, it would help if I was less messy.



Real work, and honey do work, has me whipped and progress has been slow. I'll add to this when I get time to actually mix the Devcon and bed those 2 areas.

*** 12/07/2014***
I got started early this morning and got this stock bedded.

First off I had to finish preparing the stock by building a dam to contain the devcon to the first inch or so of the barrel. I just flatten out a small block of clay to the approximate size and thickness I need. Lay the pad into the barrel channel. Take a wood dowel, of the correct size, and wet it with a bit of mineral spirits. Use this dowel to form the clay in the barrel channel and get the thickness close to what you need. Trim the excess clay at the proper places. The photo below shows the finished clay dam.



Now I started on the receiver. Plug anything and everything that could cause a mechanical lock when the devcon cures. The following 3 photos show where I put clay plugs. Pay special attention to the take down screw area as there are some ridges there that can cause a mechanical block if they aren't filled with clay.





Once everything is plugged start on the release agent. Kiwi clear shoe polish is the agent of choice. The last guy that used my Kiwi left the top loose on the tin and the wax hardened beyond use. I'd chew him out except everyone would accuse me of talking to myself again. I ended up using the Carnuba paste wax that I use on my stocks after finishing. Put wax everywhere you think the devcon could possibly migrate and then go another 25% further. Let the wax harden and lightly buff it off. Repeat the wax application a couple more times.

Now, stop doing anything and think about what you have done. Check it all again. Check the taping, the waxing, the plugging and any other operation your rifle might have needed. Look again for any of those mechanical lock areas and be sure they are plugged.
Gather up your bedding supplies, your cleaning supplies, some lacquer thinner and your Devcon.

Now think about what you are going to do. Get a plan in your head and think about it. You don't want to have to stop midway through the bedding to fix something or find something or whatever. Think it all through and be sure the plan will work.

When ready, mix up the devcon. Mix more than you think you will need, I always need more than I think I will.
Devcon 10110 is mixed 2.5 parts epoxy to 1 part hardener by volume. Mix the stuff for at least 4 minutes. I will say that I truly hate epoxy. It's a mess to work with and to mix and to clean up. Have a couple pair of disposable gloves available and use them. You will be glad you did.
Don't get too excited and hurry the job, you have 45 minutes working time with the 10110. I finished this stock up with 10 minutes to spare and I changed gloves three times.

However you choose to apply the devcon; get it into all the nooks and crannies you cut into the stock to lock the devcon in place. Dr. Gunner like syringes, I haven't gotten them to work for me yet. I use pop sickle sticks and tongue depressors to push the stuff where I want it. Apply way more than you think you need; the excess, if any, will squeeze out and can be cleaned up.
The following two photos show the devcon applied to the action screw area and the rear tang. I just push it around and fill the holes and corners and leave lots of excess.




Neatness isn't really too important applying the stuff, just get it where you need it. The receiver and gravity will disperse the devcon to where it's needed.
Slide the barreled action, without any internals, into the stock slowly and let gravity help move the devcon around. Once the barreled action is in place I apply some light hand pressure to get it set in place. I tie a couple strips of inner tube around the receiver to hold it all together.
Now is the time to start cleanup. I clean up any screw holes first. Q-tips and lacquer thinner will remove the devcon from the holes. Keep cleaning until the holes are clean. I then run the screw, coated with release agent, into the hole and out a couple times cleaning between each time. If you are going to leave the action screw in place while the devcon dries, now is the time to re coat it with release agent and screw it into place.
Now do the cleanup around the rear tang, the action screw and inside the receiver inletting. Pop sickle stick work well to get the bulk, of the devcon, off the stock. Q-tips, with lacquer thinner, are used for the detail cleanup. Stay with it for a while, the devcon will continue to move, gravity remember, for a few minutes. You will likely clean up in the receiver inletting, i.e. where the trigger group goes, 2 or 3 times before you are done.
After the devcon starts to cure, around an hour, lacquer thinner will help shape and smooth the devcon. Kind of nice when you have some rough spots.

Here is a photo of the rifle, after cleanup, waiting for the devcon to cure.



The tape was removed about 5 hours after bedding the rifle. Nothing exciting to see but here is a photo of the rear tang area. Some filing and sanding will be required for final shaping. The angle on this photo kind of stinks but you get the idea.





***12/08/2014*** Update

Went to take the barreled action out of the stock this afternoon. It was very, very tight. No pressure or slap on the barrel to crack this one. A delrin block that fits inside the receiver and a brass hammer did the job. It had to come straight up, no tilting allowed.

Below is a photo right after the action was removed. The only thing I did before the photo was remove the tape in the barrel channel.



As I said above, get the Kiwi all over and then some. Here is a photo of the receiver right after removing it from the stock. Notice how far the devcon migrated from where it was supposed to be. Cleaning this up was a job for finger nails because the Kiwi was where it should be.



Here is a close up of the rear tang bedding. Notice the devcon down below the rails. The stuff goes everywhere.



And a close up of the action screw area.



I spent about half an hour cleaning up the excess devcon, mostly around the action screw area. As I said above, you could not tilt the barreled action to insert or remove it from the stock. The following photo shows a bunch of material had to be removed before the action went in and out easily.



There is some cosmetic work to be done to the bedding. I need to finish blending the stock and the rear tang. Then I need to trim some material from the pad under the barrel as the devcon spread upward too far. After all that on to finishing the stock.

***12/10/2014*** Update
The barrel pad has been trimmed such that it only contacts the bottom 1/4th of the barrel.

***12/13/2014***
I have completed trimming and cleaning up the bedding. Below are some photos of the finished product. Note that I have sealed the action inletting and the barrel channel. The sealer imparts a nice shiny finish to the bedding.

The whole thing.


Rear tang closeup.


Action screw closeup.
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Last edited by Bill40718; 12-13-2014 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:05 PM
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First coat of Formby's Tung Oil.



After about 6 or 7 coats of Formby's TO. Still have a ways to go to get the pores filled.



*** Jan. 5, 2015 ***

After about 20 coats of Formbys version of Tru-Oil and still not having the finish I was looking for; I said 'To heck with this' and switched to plan B. A rattle can of Min-Wax Polyurethane and I was back at it. I know that was a cop out but I'm getting anxious to shoot this thing and get past the finishing stage. And remember, this was the test mule to prove out the program written by Mr. Turmite to cut this style stock.
Below are some photos of the rifle as it sits to day. There is still some rubbing to be done after the finish cures for a few weeks. I also have to do a bit of cleanup and polishing on the butt plate and fore end cap. Other than that, its done.







Now to get some range time and see what this rifle will do. Stay tuned.
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Last edited by Bill40718; 01-05-2015 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:40 PM
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So stoked on this Bill! Great looking design Mike!!!


Sub MOA or bust!!!
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:59 PM
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Personally I would not let that bit of off center bother me. I would not paint it.
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:13 PM
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Personally I would not let that bit of off center bother me. I would not paint it.
Vince,

Not planning on painting the stock.
Just want folks to know that this is not the standard Mike works to and would be downgraded to 2nd quality or, in my words, 'paint grade'.
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:27 PM
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Bill I need to clarify a couple of things to get this right!

I have sanded the stock with 80 grit on a high speed da small orbit sander. There were some machining lap over areas that I needed to blend before doing the close up shots. I assure you that you would probably not be able to tell it had tooling marks on it anyway, but I did not want to misinform anyone.

Second, the off center snafu, was totally my fault, and nothing to do with the cad, my program, nor the fixture, which I have made a single position version of what I will build for the machine in Shreveport that will hold three stocks. I will email you a photo later showing what the problem was.

To quickly explain it, I had two things happen that should not have. First, I eyeballed the center line vertically to get my centerline. Mistake number one. I did not use a brad point bit to drill the starter holes and because of that, the bit wandered and I did not catch it.......mistake number two!!

Mike
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:00 PM
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Bill,
Very glad to see this thread come back. The original inspired me in more ways than almost anyone else knows. I hope the rest of this thread comes to fruition. That first stock looks just like what my minds eye hoped it would. VERY excited for you!

As always, Respectfully......Scott
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by turmite View Post
Bill I need to clarify a couple of things to get this right!

I have sanded the stock with 80 grit on a high speed da small orbit sander. There were some machining lap over areas that I needed to blend before doing the close up shots. I assure you that you would probably not be able to tell it had tooling marks on it anyway, but I did not want to misinform anyone.

Second, the off center snafu, was totally my fault, and nothing to do with the cad, my program, nor the fixture, which I have made a single position version of what I will build for the machine in Shreveport that will hold three stocks. I will email you a photo later showing what the problem was.

To quickly explain it, I had two things happen that should not have. First, I eyeballed the center line vertically to get my centerline. Mistake number one. I did not use a brad point bit to drill the starter holes and because of that, the bit wandered and I did not catch it.......mistake number two!!

Mike

OOPS!

As you all can see, Mike can and will correct me whenever I mess up.
Thanks Mike, you all know the 3 letters that 'assumption' leads to.


I have made corrections to the original post.
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Last edited by Bill40718; 11-07-2014 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Corrections of my mistakes.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:55 PM
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A little off center would help me shoot better. Sweet set up. I probably would stain it too.
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:01 PM
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Very Nice!!

Good luck Bill and Mike.

Landy
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:09 PM
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Glad to see this coming back, Bill...
Subscribed and looking forward to seeing how this comes along.

Personally, I'd finish it as is, you can always paint it later if you want. I will take natural wood grain over paint whenever possible.

Congrats!!!

DrGunner
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:39 PM
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Great looking stock! Congrats Bill on the new lumber and nice work Turmite
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:34 PM
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Bill I thought I had better post this here now so those that have these stocks on order can make a decision. As you know I have been searching for someone to make the two piece adjustable front pillar for this stock and have only found one shop with the time or the desire to do the little small job.

He wants $40 a unit and I have to order a minimum of 10, and honestly I cannot bring myself to believe I can sell that many and add a little to cover my expenses and time involved.

Again, I need some feedback.

On another front though, I have wonderful news. We finally got the programs so they are read by the controller on the machine I am purchasing, or attempting to!
If all goes well between now and Monday, I will start the process all over again, but this time there will be not programming time involved. I have the program finished for the fixture that will hold three stocks at the same time, and I have tested two different bench rest stock programs on my old cnc machine here.

Will keep you posted!!

Mike
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:47 PM
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On another front though, I have wonderful news. We finally got the programs so they are read by the controller on the machine I am purchasing, or attempting to!
If all goes well between now and Monday, I will start the process all over again, but this time there will be not programming time involved. I have the program finished for the fixture that will hold three stocks at the same time, and I have tested two different bench rest stock programs on my old cnc machine here.

Will keep you posted!!

Mike
Fantastic update Mike, very happy to hear that!
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