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  #61  
Old 12-23-2014, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevdeester View Post
Thanks guys.

Sure, SN is 476xx range.

I cannot believe how accurate the piece is. A pleasure to shoot.
Thank you, mine is 39575, so that helps put it in a smaller time frame for manufacture.
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  #62  
Old 12-23-2014, 08:26 PM
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I have s/n 39308 so not to distant, maybe even made the same day. Also I have 47823 which is pretty close to 476XX

I have been trying to see how close I can get with my car wash codes but this is more fun.
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  #63  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:14 PM
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My Trombone

Recently I bought one, not really in good condition the stock. Where I can find Wooden Handguard and Stock kit? Any help please to restore this beautiful rimfire, Thanks

Jorge
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  #64  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jor1 View Post
Recently I bought one, not really in good condition the stock. Where I can find Wooden Handguard and Stock kit? Any help please to restore this beautiful rimfire, Thanks

Jorge

Welcome.
That's a difficult request.I don't know of any sources.
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  #65  
Old 05-03-2015, 09:35 PM
A square 10
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i want one - thats absolutely beautiful
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  #66  
Old 05-04-2015, 07:42 PM
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Thanks Camster
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  #67  
Old 05-06-2015, 12:17 PM
steve99f
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenerMan View Post
Noted in Bromancer's post that he had problems with feeding, which he partially corrected with a q-tip stick (rather clever, actually, although I am sure John Browning would flinch at the thought :-)

One thing that most people i have spoken with seem to have glossed over is that many of the Trombones out there are marked ".22 L" which people assume means Long Rifle. Many of these people have noted poor accuracy, functioning or both.
Now it may be the elevator is worn but what I suspect is that the gun is actually chambered for the .22 Long, NOT the .22LR (remember how old many of these guns are). Usually you can get them to feed if you pull the slide back and slowly bring it forward for chambering the round. A .22LR round will often hit ever so slightly below the chamber and won't chamber on a fast pump, whereas a slower forward movement of the pump will often allow the round to chamber.

Naturally, that is not how Mr. Browning would have designed the gun, hence I believe that it is a result of incorrectly using .22LR in a .22 Long. To further back my hypothesis, I would urge people to check out the twist of their barrels; I would wager that those guns that won't feed, or, alternately, that are not that accurate, actually have a very slow twist suited to the 29-grain bullet of the .22 Long or .22 Short. In my rifle I have had excellent accuracy (and feeding) when using the .22 Long (usually .22 Short for supply purposes) but indifferent accuracy for .22 LR/40-grain bullets. What actually led me to this investigation was noting the above results but also noting that, when I used CCI .22 Stingers (not endorsing the practice but I have done it) the accuracy is on par with the results obtained with the .22 Long/Short. Of course, a CCI Stinger uses a 32-grain bullet which is readily stabilized with a slower-twist than a 40-grain bullet would be.

Anecdotally, in handling around two dozen Trombones over the years I have never actually seen a .22 LR marked Trombone although a gunsmith acquaintance assures me he has seen them. The slower-twist barrel on the few that I have checked specifically leads me to believe that this is a situation that should be considered when working with your own Trombone model; it could provide some insight or something for someone to research further. Also, I have NEVER personally handled a Trombone model that did not have cracking around the grip.

Having said all that, it is my personal favourite in .22s both in styling and the fact that my grandfather gave me mine as my first rifle. Never discount sentimentality...
The standard twist rate for the 29 grain bulllets found in the short and long cartridges is 1 in 24 inches of barrel length. The standard twist rate for the 22 LR is 1 in 20 inches of barrel length. The different rates of twist could make a difference in the accuracy you see in any given rifle.

Some very pretty Trombones in this thread.
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  #68  
Old 05-06-2015, 01:42 PM
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Steve, if I am not mistaken....and yes I frequently am.... the standard twist rate for long rifle is 1-16" while the standard rate used on shorts and longs is/was 1-20".

I agree that twist rate makes a difference. Out of curiosity, I am going to check the twist rate on my trombone to see what it has. I'm intrigued by your theory.....though I have never run into a Trombone that had trouble cycling a long rifle. I do know of at least one other European made rifle that was clearly chambered for long rifle but marked .22 L.

But if you are right, that would help explain some of the less than stellar accuracy I have seen in a few Trombones.
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  #69  
Old 05-06-2015, 07:20 PM
steve99f
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You are correct sir

pumps22

Your numbers are backed up by a quick interweb search. Coulda swore it was 20 and 24.

I've noticed when checking twist rate using a cleaning rod, marker and tape measure on factory rifles that it is rare to find the rate exactly or even nominally as stated in barrels with good rifling and a tight patch. A tighter or looser twist rate could make things better or worse. All this variability provides sufficient reason to keep going to the range.
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  #70  
Old 05-06-2015, 08:40 PM
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I took the Trombone out to the shop this afternoon.....wanted to disassemble it and ensure it was clean anyway. Twist is a hair over 1-16"......checked it several times. That is pretty much standard for the long rifle. I also gave the barrel bore a good scrubbing and while at it, visually inspected the chamber....all looked well there. I even inserted a CCI Standard Velocity round into the chamber with my fingers. No problem, so it appears that, for my sample at least - made in the 1920's, is clearly chambered to accept the long rifle round.

I checked the twist rate with a Dewey rod and a snug fitting copper brush. As far as variability of twist rate, my own testing seems to bear out a lot of what you say. I recently acquired a Suhl 150 and was told that it would be either 1- 16" or 1- 19". Careful testing indicated mine was a tad over 1 -17".

Related to all this, a couple of years ago, my brother asked me to keep an eye open for an octagon barreled Winchester 61.....but one that had something done to lower value like having the receiver drilled and tapped....he wanted a shooter. I found one on Gunbroker....a really nice gun originally chambered for .22 short. But someone had the gun rechambered to .22 long rifle. Folks were shying away from bidding on it, so he told me to bid. I warned him that it would have the 1- 20" twist of the short chambering and very will might be inaccurate with the long rifle, though it might still shoot the shorts ok. We got it at a very good price. When I got the gun, I was pleased at what great shape it was in - a very nice 90%+ gun. To my surprise, the gun shot long rifle ammo every bit as accurately as any other 61 I had shot...which is to say very well. Shot the shorts well too.

You never know til you try.
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  #71  
Old 05-07-2015, 05:38 PM
steve99f
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That seems odd

for a Trombone to have the twist for a LR chambering. Not a bad thing though, practically speaking. I checked the marking on mine since I couldn't remember what it was and it's like everyone else's, 22 Long. The SN is @ 45,000.

Based on some Savage Model 99's and 1899's I've checked, it's not just rimfires where the rifling rate wondered a bit. It pays to check if you are having accuracy issues and nothing seems to answer. These were all older guns, 50's or earlier.
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  #72  
Old 05-07-2015, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99f View Post
for a Trombone to have the twist for a LR chambering. Not a bad thing though, practically speaking. I checked the marking on mine since I couldn't remember what it was and it's like everyone else's, 22 Long. The SN is @ 45,000.

Based on some Savage Model 99's and 1899's I've checked, it's not just rimfires where the rifling rate wondered a bit. It pays to check if you are having accuracy issues and nothing seems to answer. These were all older guns, 50's or earlier.
Mine is 39575, so some older than yours. Made in the twenties as far as I can recall. Considering that Savage, Remington, and Marlin were all chambering guns for long rifle by then - Winchester was still dragging its feet a little - I'm not surprised that FN chambered the gun for the long rifle. Yours is stamped "22.L" right? In Europe at that time, that may not have automatically meant "long" instead of "long rifle". But I'm sort of thinking out loud here. All I can say is that my gun was chambered for and intended to fire long rifle ammo....as well as shorts and longs.

Regardless, they are one of the smoothest operating guns you'll run across. The only real rival is the Winchester 61 in my opinion. They are also amazingly simple in design....something the Remington 12 and 121 were not.

As to the rifling, I'm not sure how precise they were able to maintain the rate of twist when cutting the rifling with the machines they used back then....perhaps that accounted for some of the variances. But I could be all wrong.
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  #73  
Old 05-08-2015, 12:03 PM
steve99f
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Yep, 22L is the marking on mine, next the the barrel proofs.

Can't disagree with you regarding the smoothness of the actions on the Browning and the M-61. I have both and also the two Remingtons you mentioned as well as all the octagon barreled Savage slide action rifles. Even managed to add a M 1890 recently just because. 2nd variation. The Browning and 61 are the slickest in my opinion.
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  #74  
Old 08-02-2015, 11:54 AM
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I have a Browning 22 pump Trombone, that my father gave me. He acquired the gun in Germany in WWII during the Battle of the Bulge. They had captured some German soldiers and two of them had one of these guns. My dad took one and one of his buddies got the other. I have no idea on how my dad get it back to the states, but I'm sure glad he did. When I got the gun it was in pretty bad shape. The stock was split and a lot of the blueing had been rubbed off. I sent it to Browning and had it restored back to the magnificent beauty it was when it was first built. Now with the push on originality, I'm not sure if I did the right thing. It really looks good in my gun cabinet. If I figure out how to post pictures, I would like to show it's beauty.


Doug
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  #75  
Old 08-02-2015, 12:38 PM
Camster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman6412 View Post
I have a Browning 22 pump Trombone, that my father gave me. He acquired the gun in Germany in WWII during the Battle of the Bulge. They had captured some German soldiers and two of them had one of these guns. My dad took one and one of his buddies got the other. I have no idea on how my dad get it back to the states, but I'm sure glad he did. When I got the gun it was in pretty bad shape. The stock was split and a lot of the blueing had been rubbed off. I sent it to Browning and had it restored back to the magnificent beauty it was when it was first built. Now with the push on originality, I'm not sure if I did the right thing. It really looks good in my gun cabinet. If I figure out how to post pictures, I would like to show it's beauty.


Doug
Welcome.
No worries,you did the right thing in getting it restored.Preserving a split stock isn't required,nor does it add to value or desirability.Maintaining light wear or normal wear is one thing,damage and heavy wear,is quite another.
Soldiers were sometimes able to mail such things home,being a take down rifle,it might have come home in his duffel bag.The German soldiers might have "liberated" the rifles themselves before encountering your dad.It wouldn't be an item that any soldier would normally be toting around.

Last edited by Camster; 08-02-2015 at 01:01 PM.
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