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Old 11-20-2013, 01:50 AM
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GunnerBedding; Devcon Plastic steel putty, 10110



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I have described my bedding process in bits and pieces in many threads and stickies.

My preferred bedding compound is Devcon Plastic steel putty, 10110:



It's available for $35 a pound, enough to do 5-6 rifles, from Zoro tools:

http://www.zorotools.com/g/Repair%20...utty/00060916/

If you spend $50, shipping is free which is easy to do at Zoro!!!

Cleaning up Devcon around the installed action at the metal/stock interface and cleaning it out of action screw holes can be a chore, and if it's not adequately removed from action screw holes or pillars, you can get the dreaded "permanent job" that never comes apart. Aside from applying release agent to the inside of the pillars, on the fasteners, and inside the threaded holes in the receiver and escutcheons, it is often necessary to clean it out of these places in the middle of a job. Doing so- or NOT doing so properly can make or break a rifle.
I've found that leaving a roll of material "proud" on exposed areas is best. 6" wood shafted medical cotton swab applicators are excellent tools for the job, and come in really handy cleaning all parts of a gun. A few of these dipped in pure acetone make short work of cleaning bedding compound out of a fouled action screw hole or pillar, and do a great job at all the aforementioned tasks. They're inexpensive, given the time they save- the rigid wood shafts make all the difference.

The "QTip" style are called "6 inch cotton tip applicators"
The tapered style are called "6 inch micro tip applicators"





First of all, Devcon is a strange mix- 1 part activator to 2.5 parts resin, mixed by volume. It is VERY thick. I have found that storing the components in large syringes works best- it keeps for many months, and mixing a batch of any size is easy and clean because you can dispense the precise volume needed in ml.

Devcon putty will only flow through 14ga large bore veterinary needles. They're available in stainless steel 14gax1" from eNasco, $4.55 for 12. They're reusable, provided that they're cleaned with acetone before the Devcon sets completely in the barrel of the needle. Flushing them with acetone in an empty syringe works great.

http://www.enasco.com/product/C11944(A)N

I use large syringes, 35ML or bigger. They can be purchased online and are very inexpensive if you look around. No medical license is needed, anyone can buy them in the cookware section at your local grocery store.

This place has them for $.51 each:

http://www.vitalitymedical.com/35-ml...-monoject.html


I create plugs for the syringes by flattening a hypo needle and rolling the end up:



When dispensing the components to mix a batch, I TAKE THE NEEDLE OFF of the activator syringe for easier flow.

On the resin storage syringe, I CUT THE NEEDLE NIPPLE OFF OF THE SYRINGE and drill out the opening to 1/4". That way it flows easily. There are still threads inside the "Luer lock" hub that you can thread the needle into in order to cap it for storage.




Getting the Devcon into the syringe, especially the resin, which is thicker AND stickier than peanut butter with no air behind the plunger is difficult if you don't know how.
First, I Pull the plunger out of the syringe, install a plug, and lock the empty syringe in a vise. Then scoop the Devcon into the back of the syringe. Fill it about halfway, and let it settle. Do this in a warm environment, at least 70F.
Then I poke a hole in the side of the syringe just above the top of the compound. Insert the plunger, and the air will bleed out the hole, allowing the plunger to seat against the resin with little or no trapped air. If you have trouble getting the mud into the bottom of the syringe, fill one, not worrying about the air, then plug another, mount it in the vise, and inject the resin into the other, keeping the flow centered. Then let it settle, drill a small air bleeder, install the plunger and cap it.







I drill a grid pattern of holes on all surfaces, switching to a dremel with a small bur and inserting into 25-50% of the holes, and swivel the dremel in a small circle to auger out a cone shaped recess. I blow all dust out with compressed air. Then I mix a batch of Devcon, and fill a large syringe with it and attach a large 14 gauge veterinary hypo needle. I grind the beveled tip off of the needle to create a straight 90 degree tip:





I fill all of the holes from the bottom up, injecting as I go. The injection process just got MUCH easier using the trick shown in the pics below.
Then I apply a layer of mud to the whole intended bedding area inside the stock and a layer on the action. I lay the action in the stock with the front of the stock tilted up and let gravity slowly work, which pushes air out as it goes. I then bolt or strap it together, and the wait begins. The process of creating conical recesses, then filling with a syringe works great and produces a good mechanical lock.





Also, when there are areas where the bedding compound will be exposed, it's best to leave the bedding compound standing above the surrounding action and stock, otherwise the exposed material will have a rough, unfinished appearance.
Leave a roll of material that stands "proud", which will allow you to reshape the exposed material after it has set up.
Devcon has a 45 minute set up time. The good news is that you can still mold and shape it with acetone soaked rags for up to two hours after it was mixed. I usually leave a roll of bedding compound on exposed areas between the action and stock, standing "proud" about 1/16" above the level of where I want the final product to be. Then after the 24 hour waiting period, I file, sand, and wet sand the exposed surfaces of the mud down to a nice smooth flat finish. Doing so eliminates all air pockets and allows you to reshape the rough upper surface to your liking.

Standing proud:




Filed smooth:







Here are the hand tools that I use to shape the exposed Devcon:




I have recently invented another handy trick for applying Devcon via syringe, injecting the compound into predrilled anchor holes using a large syringe and 14 gauge veterinary needle. Injecting Devcon putty, 10110 can be difficult, but the job gets MUCH easier when you install the syringe in a caulk gun:

You simply mix your batch of Devcon (5 minutes mixing time, no less) and fill a syringe. The nipple does NOT need to be removed for this trick.

Find a LARGE fender washer, that fits over the Luer Lock hub on the syringe.
Install a 14ga veterinary needle with 90 degree tip.
Place the washer over the hub of the syringe, and put the whole shebang in a caulk gun like the one in the pics:





Dispensing the mixed bedding compound into anchor holes, around pillars, into all the recesses and corners in the stock and on the action now becomes an effortless job. This system allows for precise control while applying the compound, and makes every part of the job easier, cleaner and a lot more fun and relaxing.
It's a great tool for those spots you missed and need to fill quickly before the whole job sets up and you run short on time.

Just for fun, a demonstration:



Warmest Regards,


DrGunner

Last edited by DrGunner; 01-21-2015 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:42 AM
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Mods, this should REALLY be a sticky!!!

Thanks for putting this together DrGunner, I hope to be as OCD when I do mine

-T


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Old 11-20-2013, 03:33 AM
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Thanks again, “Doctor Tang”. An air bleed through the side takes the mystery from that poser and the caulk gun trick surely gonna make slinging mud a whole lot easier.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:41 AM
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Thanks, DrG. That will definitely come in handy soon! humb:

Doug
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:38 AM
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Medical gun bedding procedures

Instead of using the caulking gun (a really cool idea, by the way) why don't you just take off the needle and inject directly from the syringe? Hemostats (snaps) make this easy to do, and most people have them in their fishing kits. Kelly clamps (forceps) might work better for big syringes and needles.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacknboostn View Post
Mods, this should REALLY be a sticky!!!
It's been added to the School of Woodworking Knowledge in the Stocks MRRMB forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacknboostn View Post
Thanks for putting this together DrGunner, I hope to be as OCD when I do mine

-T


Sub MOA or bust!!!
Ditto on that... Thanks Dr. G!
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobjam View Post
Instead of using the caulking gun (a really cool idea, by the way) why don't you just take off the needle and inject directly from the syringe? Hemostats (snaps) make this easy to do, and most people have them in their fishing kits. Kelly clamps (forceps) might work better for big syringes and needles.
Injecting from the syringe alone? Of course you could do that. I did for the last three years and still do when I need to apply a higher volume of mud with a better flow rate.

What exactly is your recommended purpose for the Kelly clamps/forceps?

You could also just as easily apply the compound with a butter knife like I did for years.

But this thread is all about doing it a DIFFERENT way, and because a 35 mL syringe has a diameter of greater than 1 inch, it is difficult and in some cases impossible to get the dispensing tip down into the inletting of many stocks. I developed the idea of using anchor holes from bedding many centerfire rifles, in the quest to create a bedding technique that would last for decades without risk of material cracking or flaking out. You would have to drill rather large anchor holes to be able to stuff the nipple of a syringe into them. Using a 14 gage needle allows you to insert the needle down to the bottom of any size anchor hole or any recess, and injecting as you pull the tip backwards, filling the space and completely eliminating any air pockets or voids.

The needle allows for much more precise dispensation and control. If you have done this both ways with and without the needle and with and without the caulk gun, you will understand WHY I do it this way and it will become so obviously clear that your question will be answered for you. Dispensing Devcon putty through a syringe requires a significant amount of force applied to the syringe plunger, even without a needle. For standard bedding purposes where anchor holes are not used, doing this without the needle and injecting directly from the hub is perfectly viable and certainly does work better than applying the mud with a spatula or other handheld tool.

I guess what I am trying to say is

before looking for ways to improve or simplify this

TRY IT

I think you will find that it is a significant improvement on pre-existing techniques.

Sincerely,

DrGunner
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:47 PM
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:27 PM
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Medical gun bedding procedures

Esteemed DrGunner: I am beginning to understand. The Kelly's are just a bigger hemostat device to help get really sticky needles off and on without stabbing yourself.

I spend a lot of time around syringes and medical equipment, and I was just trying to think of an available off-the-shelf device to obviate the need for the caulking gun, which most doctors and veterinarians don't use much with their syringes. No disrespect intended, and I truly appreciate your instructions.

Perhaps the Luer lock plastic tip on these devices would be better suited. Even if you don't think so, you'll probably enjoy the video:
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbobjam View Post
Esteemed DrGunner: I am beginning to understand. The Kelly's are just a bigger hemostat device to help get really sticky needles off and on without stabbing yourself.

I spend a lot of time around syringes and medical equipment, and I was just trying to think of an available off-the-shelf device to obviate the need for the caulking gun, which most doctors and veterinarians don't use much with their syringes. No disrespect intended, and I truly appreciate your instructions.

Perhaps the Luer lock plastic tip on these devices would be better suited. Even if you don't think so, you'll probably enjoy the video:

Yep, I am very familiar with the Kelly's, Peons, Criles, Olsen Hegars, Kochers, etc .... And you are right, I don't have a caulk gun anywhere near my medical equipment. But I do have medical equipment near my rifle bedding supplies for the reasons stated above.
And for this purpose, I install the needles with a good old pair of Matco needle nose pliers. All of my clamps are German stainless and I wouldn't want to get bedding mud on them.

The Luer lock helps a lot, since a significant amount of force and hydraulic pressure is required to push the Devcon putty through a syringe. Perhaps I did not state this very clearly before, pushing Devcon through a syringe, especially with a needle attached requires significant hand strength, the caulk gun pretty much makes this simple for anyone to do no matter the size and strength of their hands. The benefit is in the ease, economy, and targeted application of the compound without waste, mess or physical exertion.

Jimbobjam-I realize that this may seem like reverse engineering to you, do you do rifle bedding yourself?

DrGunner
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:14 PM
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Medical gun bedding procedures

Once, years ago. Botched it. Hence my interest in your instruction.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:43 PM
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Doc, thanx for doing this write up. Definitely makes everything clear!
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Old 11-20-2013, 03:09 PM
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pushing Devcon through a syringe, especially with a needle attached requires significant hand strength,
DrGunner
Now that is the understatement of the year!

I think I switched hands half a dozen times bedding my CZ. Talk about sore hands and wrists.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbobjam View Post
Once, years ago. Botched it. Hence my interest in your instruction.
Well, depending on the material you used, Devcon is likely a much different animal.
It's extremely thick, and contains a good amount of steel powder. For most applications, especially CF rigs with shallow actions, none of this is necessary.
There are, however, many bedding tasks that are inherently difficult and even impossible without some sort of engineered application technique. Sure, you COULD do it, but with many jobs, the result wasn't worth the effort.
Some actions have REALLY funky angles and challenging surface combinations that have always presented significant problems for pillar and glass bedding. I started using syringes alone several years ago, initially to store and accurately dispense proper batches of Devcon in the required 1:2.5 mixture.
From there I started using syringes without the needle for application on difficult jobs because it cut down on waste and made the jobs cleaner.
Adding the needle made sense to allow me to push this highly viscous, sticky compound into hard-to reach places like pillar holes, under escutcheons and around 90 degree corners on actions and recoil lugs. Then I started the anchor hole idea, which just adds adherence and inherent strength to the finished product, increasing the chances that it will last through years of recoil, solvents and assembly/disassembly cycles. Injecting the mud into the anchor holes is simply the best way to ensure complete filling, IMO.

Once I realized that the needle-syringe combination was useful and handy, there was always a problem with the necessarily high amount of force needed to push the mud through the system.

The caulk gun is the perfect solution- a controllable needle tipped applicator with an "on/off" mode that extends the reach of application into tight spaces with relative ease and very little mess.

Hope this helps-

DrGunner

Last edited by DrGunner; 11-20-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:22 AM
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Thank you VERY much DR for the sticky. Your instructions and Pics have answered all of my questions !!

Chas
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