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Old 08-05-2011, 12:33 PM
azguy
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Repairing Gouges in Stock



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Got a buddies OLD walnut stock that rode in his truck rifle for years. The stock has some deep gouges in it, probably 1/16 to 1/8 inch deep and over an inch long with some. I'l like to fill these but was curious as to what with. I am shortening the stock for his kid, hence the reason for the project. I can get plenty of matching walnut dust from the piece of butt taken off. What would be the best "glue" or epoxy to mix the walnut dust with and use as a filler? And these are too much to try and "steam" out. They are gouges cause by the seat behind which the rifle rode for so long. I could just mill out the gouges and glue in inlayed pieces but thought I would see what y'all had to say. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:41 PM
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If you are going to paint it...and I suggest that..our own RFC Hipshot uses Bondo in all his beauties..prepped correctly I think that would be the best bet...then paint it.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:50 PM
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azguy,

I use a steamer that has a fine nozzle on it. It will lift things you would never expect that it would. Even if it doesn't get all the damage out what there is left will be super clean and will assure good bonding whatever you use to fill the damaged area. It's called a SteamFast, Kitchen and bath steam cleaner. Never has been in either the kitchen or the bath. I think I gave about $30 for it off the internet.

Don't know where you're at in Tucson but your welcome to borrow it if you like.

T
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:02 PM
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Use the walnut sanding dust (a lot of it) mixed in Miles Gilbert 2-part bedding epoxy. Mix it up, then using a round tooth pic, gather the epoxy on the tooth pic and fill the gouges to flush or just above flush. Then sand the area with the grain after it cures.

Not perfect, but close to the same color as the existing wood.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeley View Post
azguy,

I use a steamer that has a fine nozzle on it. It will lift things you would never expect that it would. Even if it doesn't get all the damage out what there is left will be super clean and will assure good bonding whatever you use to fill the damaged area. It's called a SteamFast, Kitchen and bath steam cleaner. Never has been in either the kitchen or the bath. I think I gave about $30 for it off the internet.

Don't know where you're at in Tucson but your welcome to borrow it if you like.

T
Thanks for the offer Keely. Up on the NW side of things but these aren't little dings where wood has compressed. The wood is missing. BUT, I will keep this in mind as another, "toll in the box", method.
Good stuff all.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:51 PM
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Gouges

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Originally Posted by azguy View Post
Got a buddies OLD walnut stock that rode in his truck rifle for years. The stock has some deep gouges in it, probably 1/16 to 1/8 inch deep and over an inch long with some. I'l like to fill these but was curious as to what with. I am shortening the stock for his kid, hence the reason for the project. I can get plenty of matching walnut dust from the piece of butt taken off. What would be the best "glue" or epoxy to mix the walnut dust with and use as a filler? And these are too much to try and "steam" out. They are gouges cause by the seat behind which the rifle rode for so long. I could just mill out the gouges and glue in inlayed pieces but thought I would see what y'all had to say. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Depends on how "hidden" you want to make em and how much time you want to take and if you got the talent. No insult to you but making a "hard to see if at all" is real tough with a capital R. If the wood is not really great it simply is not worth the effort.

None of the current glues, wood patches, fillers, epoxy or fiberglass fillers etc. will create a patch that can be dyed or stained to match the original wood regardless of whether or not you add sawdust to them or not. Wood fillers have a really nasty habit of looking awful if you try and add color to them for blending purposes.

If you have ever finished wood you will be familair with glues not being able to be colored. Even a really small amount of glue squeeze out on a joint will refuse to be colored regardles of what method you use short of painting it.

Hide glue, yes the animule stuff, can take a stain or dye when mixed with sawdust but even that is iffy. Needs to be applied hot, but not hot enough to burn you.

In short you are basically screwed if you want an invisible or semi invisible patch other than cutting one and faux finishing.

That said . . . . you can patch with almost any quality glue and you can add sawdust to it if you want, adding it will only give it non bonding strength though. It will simply be a filler and unless you put too much sawdust in the bond strength of a quality glue will not be affected. Sawdust and glue, IMO, is the best filler assuming you are not trying to make a patch invisible and I recommend it. Then "paint" it over with a gelcoat. I would not recommend any kind of wood filler and if you do have hide glue I would recommend that if you have some other uses for it. It is a superior glue for woodworking all things considered. If not then some decent glue like titebond etc. Premixed wood fillers have three nasty habits. The first is the solvent in them will contaminate the wood around the patch so that that area is highly defined and generally a different color than the patch. The second is they tend to bleed out the color in UV light like sunlight, and third they have a really irritating habit of popping out. Like bondo on a car that is not anchored well. I dislike them immensly so consider my last comment(s) in that light.

DON'T USE Gorilla Glue. It is primarily designed as a filler glue and expands to fill in gaps. Expands like crazy and is pourous as h&ll.

Mix it up, pour some of into a small dixie cup or even on a board, mix in enough sawdust to make it a paste then smear it over the gouge. You can add a dye to it if you want or a stain but I would be careful with adding a stain as the solvents in a stain can sometimes negate a lot of the bonding properties of the glue. IMO it is not gonna make a difference whether you add a dye or not cause the odds of matching the rest of the stock are way out there but it won't hurt if you have some stuff laying around that is close in color.

You want to have enough to be a little proud of the area around the rest of the wood so you can sand it flat. Let set up for at least 72 HOURS before sanding Glues dry from the outside in and it takes a long time for that if you put em on thck. If the gouge is really deep, like 1/8" I would, maybe just me but anyway, I would do 2 or three thin coats of the your "filler" like 30 minutes apart to let the bottom coat set up some. Glue is not like a body filler. Put in a thin coat, wait a while, stick a needle in it and see if it is "kinda more gooey" then the glue directly from container, if so slap another thin coat on repeat the test and keep doing until the glue is proud of the stock.

In a "paste" form modern glues and any thickness greater than really thin will set up a lot slower than in their designed liquid state. They are designed for bonding with a small amount not as a filler between joints. If you don't leave it proud and just touch up with sanding the patch will show the edge line even with a Gelcoat. Need to feather it in. After sanding, and I would wet sand it with wet automotive paper.

Get whatever Gel Coat you want and blend it in over the patch and into the surrounding area feathering it out so it does not have pronounced color edges. If you have stripped the stock completely you can Gel Coat the whole thing and get a pretty decent blended color finish. Wear rubber gloves unless you want to have your hands the color of the Gel Coat for a few days. That stuff migrates up into your hands like magic.

If you take your time you can almost make the patch outline disapper. Assuming you have more artisic talent than I do. In the "noremf" dynasty the queen does all the Faux finishing work. I really suck at it.

When you get it blended the way you want then add the topcoat of your preference.

If you don't strip or sand the entire stock the patch will be visible but a whole lot less than if you try and stain or dye the patch.

My advise would be to strip the whole thing, patch em up then Gel Coat the whole thing. Stains or dyes simply don't work on a glue patch.

There have been some posts by guys who have used Gel Coats on birch/beech or wood that had a lot of sapwood in it that look gorgeous and I am sure they will chime in with their preferred method.

I know guys that patch with stained or dyed fillers without trying to blend them in and they always look like patches. Like I said, your choice on how much you want to put into the repair.

noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 08-05-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:13 PM
azguy
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From one George to another.......much thanks and great info. Just got off the phone with my buddy and told him if he wants it to look NOT like his old truck rifle he can paint it or I have a takeoff stock he can have and I will even cut it down and redo the finish for him, por nada. The info is awesome guys.....much thanks.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:11 PM
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Brownell's has a product called acraglass, cures very clear.

If you can steam the gouges out after stripping the stock, re-stain everything and start refinishing. After a few coats use the acraglass, leave it a little high so it can be sanded flush.

This method will have fair results, but just about anyone can do it, much less complicated than trying to blend for a beginner.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:40 PM
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Final finish with AcraGlas

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Brownell's has a product called acraglass, cures very clear.

If you can steam the gouges out after stripping the stock, re-stain everything and start refinishing. After a few coats use the acraglass, leave it a little high so it can be sanded flush.

This method will have fair results, but just about anyone can do it, much less complicated than trying to blend for a beginner.
You are only the third guy I ever knew or heard of that use AcraGlass for a final finish. I know guys that thin it down and use it as a thin sealer in the barrel channel but not on the whole gun. That finish must really be hard! Oughta last forever.

noremf(George)
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by azguy View Post
Thanks for the offer Keely. Up on the NW side of things but these aren't little dings where wood has compressed. The wood is missing. BUT, I will keep this in mind as another, "toll in the box", method.
Good stuff all.
Figures your in the NW. I'm out by Civano.

T
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:12 PM
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George,

I was saying use the acraglass for a gouge filler, it works well - but it is expensive. I have never used it for a final finish, I prefer "in the wood" oil finsih rather than an over the wood
epoxy finish. Epoxy works for Browning and Beretta, but the high gloss sure shows any rubs or scratches. And an oil finish is much easier to repair than an epoxy based!
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:35 AM
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Here is a link to my Sticky on using Acraglas to repair gouges on a stock.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...?f=137&t=51259
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:07 PM
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My bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolio View Post
George,

I was saying use the acraglass for a gouge filler, it works well - but it is expensive. I have never used it for a final finish, I prefer "in the wood" oil finsih rather than an over the wood
epoxy finish. Epoxy works for Browning and Beretta, but the high gloss sure shows any rubs or scratches. And an oil finish is much easier to repair than an epoxy based!
I misunderstood you but that is because I actually know a couple of guys who did the AcraGlass thing for an entire stock. Could not understand why then and still don't but guys do crazy stuff with weapons. I mean look at all those guys on the 10/22 threads.

The AcraGlass cost em a fortune. Have not seen em since 2003 but your post made me think about them.

I agree, almost, on epoxy finishes like Browning and Weatherby. My disagreement is that I have never seen one touched up that you could not see that touchup really really easy. IME you ended up taking the whole finish off to patch a teensy scratch. IME also when guys redid em they did not redo withe either an epoxy or varathane finish.

noremf(George)
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