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Old 11-10-2010, 01:49 PM
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69a



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This post is intended as a quick referral for the 69A, made from 1937 to 1963, total produced approximately 355,000. For two years prior, this gun was preceded by the 69, which had a different lock design. There are small details that changed along the way which are not addressed here, such as the bolt being straight and later bent, chromed hardware, grooved trigger and receiver, etc. That information is available. Standard barrel length on all of these versions is 25". A five round clip was standard, but a 10 rounder as well as a couple of versions of a single shot adaptor could be had, and they fit all of these guns. The original thread this came from has a lot more information. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=363247

Match:
93A blade front sight
Lyman 57E rear peep sight (Actually 57EW)
Heavier stock with 1 1/4" drop at heel, with clearance cut for 57E (actually 57EW)
Two 1 1/4" sling swivels
Barrel Roll Mark: "22 L. Rifle"
FOUR or Six land and groove barrel
No rear barrel sight dovetail
Barrel Proof Mark in standard location

Target:
93A blade front sight
Winchester 80A rear peep sight
Heavier stock with 1 1/4" drop at heel, with clearance cut for 80A
Two 1 1/4" sling swivels
Barrel Roll Mark: "22 L. Rifle"
Six land and groove barrel
No rear barrel sight dovetail
Barrel Proof Mark in standard location (edit note: March 1, 2013-- standard location, unless the barrel is factory drilled and tapped, in which case the proof is between the rear block holes, forward of the normal location)

Junior Target Shooter Special (JTSS)
93A blade front sight
Lyman 57EW rear peep sight
Standard stock with no drop at heel
One 1 1/4" front sling swivel only, no rear swivel
Barrel Roll Mark: "22 S. L. or LR"
Four land and groove barrel
Rear barrel sight dovetail cutout, plugged
Barrel Proof Mark in standard location

Standard 69A
97A front ramp sight or 75C bead front sight
Winchester 80A rear peep (with no rear barrel sight dovetail cut) in combination with 97A front sight only or ...
32 sporting rear barrel open sight with elevator in combination with 75C front bead sight only
Standard stock, no drop at heel
No sling swivels
Barrel Roll Mark: "22 SHORT LONG AND LONG RIFLE" (pre-WWII), or "22 S. L. OR L.R." (post WWII)
Four land and groove barrel
Barrel Proof Mark in standard location

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This last one may or may not be factory, we couldn't find any written source for it. However, there are enough of these out there that we have several guys on the board with identical ones.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
Update September, 2012. Another one has recently emerged. Total known (to me) versions of this gun now stand at 6, all identical.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
( March 1, 2013---We are now at a count of 9 identical rifles to the original one mentioned previously having the four barrel holes and proof mark moved forward to clear the proof mark. JWA has found additional factory evidence of this version's existence.)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _


Uncatalogued:
93A blade front sight
Winchester 80A rear peep
Match/Target stock with 1 1/4" drop at heel, clearance cut for 80A
Two 1 1/4" sling swivels
Barrel Roll Mark: 22 SHORT LONG AND LONG RIFLE"
Four land and groove barrel
Drilled and Tapped for scope blocks on barrel
Barrel Proof Mark moved more forward than standard location to avoid being drilled out

Perhaps the best title for the uncatalogued gun would be the "SUPER TARGET". It could be postulated that this gun was built for the serious iron sight rimfire shooter on a budget who still wanted the option of mounting a scope. This theory however would seem to have serious marketing flaws, since the only available scopes for mounting on the barrel at that time (Lyman TargetSpot/Jr, Fecker, Unertl, etc) all cost more than the gun--in many cases twice as much. So much for being budget conscious. And also there was the 75 Target to fill the same niche. So maybe this is why we do not see more of these. The Match and Target rifles were for established NRA style matches that never allowed the use of glass, so perhaps this is why there were none of those drilled and tapped at the factory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit: February 1, 2014. We have identified these rifles as bonafide factory, and here is a link on an even rarer version just discovered, currently the only one we have seen or heard of..
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=534769

There are a few others we have seen or heard of--the standard rifle with the two plugged holes in the receiver (which I would say is only a cleanup gun issue), and the "Deluxe" version, checkered with fancier wood. And then there is the pre-A 69, and the factory scoped 69's and 697's......

Last edited by 22AGS; 12-28-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:11 AM
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That's a good "quick reference" for determining exactly which variation of the Model 69A one has. I've always been confused about which was a "Target" and which was a "Match".
My Standard 69A with the 80A and 97A sight combo and long script roll marks came to me with sling swivels and a dry rotted sling stamped "Winchester".If done at the factory it interferes with the description of the Standard 69A on this one point.I kept the Winchester marked portion of the sling and the sling loops and screws.The loops appear identical to those on my 1941 75S.The studs are still in place and accommodate the "Uncle Mike's swivels that are on a Brownell's Latigo sling I switch between different rifles. I'm of the opinion that this Standard 69A left the factory with a sling.And I sure could be wrong about that.

Last edited by boley; 11-11-2010 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:36 AM
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Thanks AGS for all the info and as always you are da' go to guy on these guns...

Help me identify mine....




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  #4  
Old 11-11-2010, 06:50 AM
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Boley, anything's possible, we've learned that here lately. You have a standard 69A with the peep sight option. This gun is commonly and mistakenly referred to as the "Target" version, especially by sellers! The biggest hurdle to your rifle's pedigree is finding documentation from the catalogs regarding the sling option available for a standard gun. The long script puts the gun prior to WWII, so '37-'40, possibly assembled post-war. These could-be-factory guns drive me to distraction!

Chaser,
You have the very last version of the standard open sight 69A that came out just before the gun was discontinued. The Chromed trigger guard, coming along with the chromed and bent bolt, grooved receiver, and a chromed/serrated trigger, identify the rifle as such. This would put it approximately 1960-1963, the last years of production. The chromed trigger guard has been the tool we use to identify the very last guns.

Last edited by 22AGS; 11-11-2010 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:53 PM
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Thanks AGS for your time and effort in making this information available.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:44 PM
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Thanks AGS for your time and effort in making this information available.
I appreciate the acknowledgment freetrade, and if it helps some of you guys it was totally worthwhile.
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:29 AM
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Thanks from me too....looks like that 69A Groved receiver with the chromed trigger guard has a good chance of being a 63 gun...my birth year...Way cool Thanks 22AGS...I'll get pics tomorrow and p-ost them
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:30 AM
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Thanks from me too....looks like that 69A Grooved receiver with the chromed trigger guard has a good chance of being a '63 gun...my birth year...Way cool Thanks 22AGS...I'll get pics tomorrow and post them
The suspense is killing me! Good luck!
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:09 AM
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Hey bloodhound! I too just purchased a Chrome 69a and I too was born in 63!
I will post pictures of mine sometime this weekend!
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Old 11-13-2010, 12:52 PM
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If you guys post pictures take one of the bottom date mark on the barrel if it exists. Winchester unfortunately either stopped or slowed down the frequency of stamping that manufacture date sometime in the late '50s.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:07 PM
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My 69a chrome has no date mark. I would like to think it's a 58.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:38 PM
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Nice example Myshay. It's possible that none of these will have a date stamp, being so late in production. Winchester was really really looking in the late '50s for any way to eliminate costs while still producing a quality rifle, and the stamping operation may have been eliminated by the time these guns rolled down the line.
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:23 AM
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22AGS, Nice summary thread! Jeez, I go out of town for 10 days and you guys have all the fun without me.......

Myshay, that is a gorgeous 69A! Why do you like to think it is a '58? With the chrome trigger guard I would place it closer to '60 or later.

Thanks for the pictures, you guys have some great looking chrome trimmed rifles. Sorry, I can't bring myself to say "chromie", 22AGS you are on your own with that moniker.

Regards,
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:36 AM
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22AGS, Nice summary thread! Jeez, I go out of town for 10 days and you guys have all the fun without me.......

Myshay, that is a gorgeous 69A! Why do you like to think it is a '58? With the chrome trigger guard I would place it closer to '60 or later.

Thanks for the pictures, you guys have some great looking chrome trimmed rifles. Sorry, I can't bring myself to say "chromie", 22AGS you are on your own with that moniker.

Regards,

Let me take a wild guess---Myshay were you born in '58?

JWA, Thanks for the compliments and a great laugh, my homey.
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:13 PM
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Here is my 69A...also no mark under the barrel...I am convinced in my mind and for nother good reason that it is a '63 gun...making it my birthyear......oh well its a nice thought
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