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  #1  
Old 01-30-2010, 11:06 AM
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IZH-35M Doubling and Tripling problems



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Hello Everyone!

Cranky is one happy dude.

I have owned my IZH 35M for quite some time only to be gradually infected with the doubling and tripling common to these pistols. I researched all about it (Russian Rimfire has Steel Casings) and tried every easy solution posted on these pages and other forums without sucess.

I cleaned the bolt religiously, filed off the firing pin, changed springs, adjusted screws, bored out firing pin sleaves, rubber bands, filed bolt face, replaced pins, tried every type of ammunition, you named it, I tried it. Not only did the pistol stump me, it stumpped the local gunsmith that really is a very good gunsmith!

Finally, I sent the thing down to EAA after reading a post that said that they knew what to do. Got it back about three weeks later but that included the holiday season.

It looks like they milled a bit off the breach of the barrel, giving a little more headspace.

Took it down to MSU Demmer Shooting Facility and ran about 100 rounds through it and it was stovepiping about every fifth round.

Then Izzy and I went to my buddy the dental technition where he has the supercharged dremel tool and chamfered the top of the barrel (where it was catching the lead bullet upon charging from the magazine) and polished it up to a spit shine with the rubber bit, and then it was back to Demmer.


Ran about four hundred rounds through the Izzy. No doubles, no stovepiping, 100% reliability!!!!!

Then competed with it in Bullseye twice (another 180 rounds) No doubles, no triples, no alibi's and even scored a 99 on one rapid fire (my best ever-havent done a hundred yet but that will come).

Now I have the confidance in my firearm to compete. So, if you have one of these remarkable firearms but are infested with the dreaded doubling and tripling that is common to these pistols, do not waste your time and energies adjusting things, replacing parts, stretching springs, reaming out firing pin holes, DONT DO THAT!

Bite the bullet, send it to EAA, and they can fix it and return it to you quickly. and they did for free and only charged me $20.00 to ship it back.

thank you,

Cranky
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2010, 02:28 PM
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EAA Solution

Did EAA provide you with any information or explanination regarding
_what specifically they did to repair your pistol?

Do you have a link to the post/thread that advised you to send you pistol to EAA?

By the way, I STICKIED your thread:
Sticky: Baikal IZH-35 Rapid Fire Pistol and Trouble Shooting
Quote:
IZH-35M Doubling and Tripling problems - EAA Solution ... crankythunder
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2010, 03:13 PM
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Unhappy

Regrettably, I failed to snap one of these up back when CDNN had them for $399 and they were still legal for purchase here in the PRK.

Now my chances of getting one at a price I can manage vary between nil and when it snows in Hades...

Oh well, live & learn!

I sure wish my foresight was as clear as my hindsight!
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2010, 04:46 PM
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lemmie tell you, this is one awsome firearm.

you take care of it, the trigger is awsome, the performance is increadable, figure out how to make it right and this is one awsome pistol.

regards,

cranky
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2010, 04:56 PM
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I think that the forum that suggested sending to EAA was on BULLSEYE-L but I do not know for sure but if you have doubling problems, send it to EAA. they counterbored the breach of the barrell and they have dissasembled the pistol farther then I am comfortable and then counterbored the barrel and the performance has been awsome. If you are fortunate to own one of these then send it to EAA to shoot USA ammunition
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:45 PM
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doubling and tripling

Thank you for stickying my thread although I am not sure I fully understand what that means. If that can help others that are fortunate enough to own one of these pistols then so much the better!

The previous postings that I got my information were on this forum, target talk, and bullseye-L. I do not know which thread said that they sent it to EAA but it was buried in the suggested repairs. Therefore, I will repeat myself that if you have a IZH 35M and have doubling and tripling problems.. SEND IT TO EAA FOR REPAIRS!!!!!

I have shot FWB's, Hammerli's, Model 41's, rugers, brownings, 1911 clones, pardini's, and a couple of others. IMO the IZH is the equal of any of them and better then most when it is working properly. What is fustrating is that this is an awsome pistol and so many of the fixes you read about actually improve the doubling problem that you think that you are on the path for a functioning pistol but you are not. Therefore, bear with me, I am going to tell you what I did to get this firearm functioning competitivly.

I purchased it about four years ago used, heavily used. Trigger was great and it worked awsome. I have no idea how many rounds had been through it but it was probably close to 10,000 rounds, I only paid $250 bucks for it. Good project gun for me to have some fun with it.

Got it home and ran it through the paces. Amazed at the accuracy!!!! Even took my Leupold 36 power rifle scope and mounted it to do accuracy tests. I found out that the cheap bulk ammunition gave about 1/4 inch groups but narrowed it down to three eley ammunitions, three wolf ammunitions, CCI subsonic hollowpoints, CCI Standard Velocity, and CCI Pistol Match, and a obscure german ammo that was really greasy. I determined that the accuracy for these offerings were about 1/8'th inch with the 36 power scope on sandbags and at the limits of my trigger control as opposed to the accuracy of the firearm. All testing was done at 50 feet, the distance I compete at.

Selected CCI standard velocity for the reason that it was readily available locally and that is what my other firearms like. Started competing in Bullseye with my scores steadily improving to a 836 until problems settled in. I knew I was getting better but the firearm started doubling, robbing me of points. So I turned to the internet for guideance. Found many suggestions to cure the doubling problem so I rolled up my sleaves and got to work (I am an engineer, I cannot help myself).

First off, I found out that the Russians make their 22 amunition with steel casings whereas here in the USA, we make ours out of softer brass and that the russian ammo had a thinner rim thickness then american and european rounds.

Then I found a number of solutions, one of which had a detailed drawing for precision grinding of the firing pin. I ordered a spare firing pin and took a small amount of material off the firing pin and continued to compete. My results showed that the number of doubles per match had been reduced from four or five to zero or one, but did not eliminate the problem completely. I continued surfing the web.

The next suggestion was for relaxing the recoil spring. Ordered another spring, stretched out the one I had and continued testing. The performance had deteriorated and when I stretched out the spring got a noticible improvement. I do not have the actual data but there was a improvement but it was not cured.

Then I took it to the local gunsmith. He noticed that the firing pin was hanging up on a burr in the bolt so he resleaved the bolt, put in a new firing pin and recoil spring, and pronounced it good to go. My next competition was ok (mentally not there) and there were no doubles to blame my poor score on. At that point I went into a period of two or three doubles per match that I thought was caused by the firing pin being dirty and stuck in the bolt, firing when the bolt came forward. I actually had a couple of unintentinal discharges by cycling the bolt and removed the firearm from competition for safety reasons. Continued working on it concentrating on the dirty/stuck firing pin theory hoping that I could cure it.

Did not make any progress on the stuck firing pin theory and the more I tested it (using all the safety proceedures required) got fustrated and felt that the firearm would be a good fishing anchor in the boat.

Continued researching and found a thread stating that the sear adjustment under the left hand grip was the cause of the doubling and tripling problems. I backed off the sear adjustment and found a improvement of the doubling problem although the trigger had become tacky. Tried to compete with it but removed it from competition when it doubled. Further testing resulted in unintentional discharges by cycling the bolt without the finger on the trigger. About ready to use it as a unattached boat anchor (see above, did not want to sell this problem to another financially challenged but enthusiastic shooter).

Next research result found someone that stated the trigger release screw was set too light. tightend that up (on top of the barrell) and it stopped doubling for a short period of time. Trigger was absolutly horrible. I competed once but got to about fifty rounds off before it doubled and removed myself from the line. At this point in time, it was doubling about every fourty rounds and the trigger had the feel of a soggy gummy bear caked in sand encrusted with wet cement. Cranky was not happy!

Switched to the lower powered CCI subsonic hollowpoints (1250 FPS vs CCI standard Velocity 1270 fps)-some improvement that kept my interest but not cured.

Then, I did more research on Russian Rimfire Ammunition and found out that the rim was thinner and that they made their ammo out of Steel as opposed to brass. Also read a thread somplace that another owner sent it back to EAA and they milled the breach of the barrel and that cured the problem so, being the engineer that I am, decided that I needed to determine if my firearm was a bad trigger control, a sticky firing pin, or improper headspace. so... (this is very important)... I removed the firing pin and reassembled the pistol without the firing pin.

Loaded up the magazines and started cycling the bolt to see what happened. The pistol fired without the firing pin on about the number 20th round. Filed down the breach of the barrel to remove any burrs and repeated the test. Got to number fourty when it fired from bolt cycling. Kept cycling the pistol to convince myself that it was not a trigger adjustment or a sticky firing pin problem.

I am convinced due to the high volume of unintentional discharges that resulted.


Then I sent it to EAA with a short and polite letter and they milled about 0.015 off the barrel face and got it back in about three weeks (it was over the holiday period). I have 100% reliability with over 500 rounds through it and through two competitions.

Therefore, you guys can sit back and state that I probably should have purchased a Hammerli, a Pardinin, or a Model 41 to start off with and you are probably correct. But to the guy that got one of these and they start doubling on you, there are a number of suggested fixes out there and they will help the problem but not cure it, you need to send it to EAA cause they know how to fix it. I am a former machinist and I do not know how they got such a small end mill into the action of the pistol to remove the material from the breach but somehow they did it.

I sincerely hope that this helps other owners and look forward to competing against you in the future.

Regards,
Cranky.
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  #7  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:47 PM
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It is a head space issue. I had the same problem and took it to someone (a machinist from the club) who made a tool to fix it.
Love my IZH
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:34 AM
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IZH-35M Machining Tool

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancrime View Post
... took it to someone (a machinist from the club) who made a tool to fix it....
Do you have a photo or an illustration of the tool?
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  #9  
Old 04-08-2010, 06:02 AM
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AOM:

I was discussing this with the range master at the MSU Demmer Shooting facility and he stated that the range obtained a handful of the izh 35m in which all of them had the doubling and tripling problems. He swears that it was caused by a burr that was formed from the extractor as it was pulled back with the bolt upon firing. He said that a quick polishing up with a small flat file on the breach end of the barrell got their pistols back in shape. My IZH has been performing awsome since I got it back from EAA. I was surprised at how easy and inexpensive it was to ship there and back (us postal down to Florida, Federal Express back). When I get back home in a week or so, I will see if I can get a picture on the machining that EAA did to the breach of the barrell.

Regards:
Cranky

p.s. Since I have gotten it back in January, I must have close to 2000 rounds through the pistol, over a thousand in bullseye competition and the rest in practice. No Doubling or Tripling although I do have a couple of magazines that need adjustment for feeding problems.
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