.260 REM vs .260AI vs 6.5 REM Mag vs 6.5x284 Norma - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #1  
Old 06-15-2009, 02:46 PM
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.260 REM vs .260AI vs 6.5 REM Mag vs 6.5x284 Norma



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I want a contemporary rifle chambered for the 6.5 REM Mag.
Why? I own a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .260 REM.
Loaded with heavy bullets velocity is diminished because
the bullets need to be seated deeply into the case.

My solution, a similar rifle (Remington 700 CDL) chambered in 6.5 REM Mag.
Using the same heavy bullet the extra powder capacity of the 6.5 REM Mag
would circumvent a reduced or compressed powder charge.

I am not looking for magnum velocity.
My purpose is to achieve a minimum velocity of 2600 fps with 155 gr to 160 gr bullets.
And, 2800 fps with 139 to 142 gr bullets from a 22 inch barrel.
Why, to take full advantage of the bullet drop compensation characteristics
of a Leupold Mid-Range Tactical scope with a Tactical Milling Reticle - page 9.
Quote:
The hash marks and tic marks on the vertical crosswire are calibrated to
two popular long range service rounds, the 5.56mm NATO SS109 at 2800 fps
(carbine velocity) and the 7.62mm NATO 118 LR at 2600 fps (rifle velocity).
With this goal in-mind, can the 6.5 Rem Mag be chambered in a NON-magnum specific action?
For example, can a rifle originally chambered for a short action round such as the .308 Win,
that is rebarreled and the bolt-head changed, safely handle the 6.5 REM Mag?
And, will a 6.5 REM Mag cartridge function in a magazine intended for a .308 Win?

Or, as an alternative a Remington 700 CDL or BDL
originally chambered in 7mm REM Mag being converted to 6.5 REM Mag.
Why, because it is my understanding the 7mm is the parent case of the 350 REM Mag
from which the 6.5 is derived from.

If all else fails or is impractical, I'm considering a Remington 700 CDL or BDL in .264 WIN Mag.
Considering my modest velocity goals, the .264 WIN is over-kill.
But, it would be a much less costly project.
This is my last idea that is beginning to look better and better.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2009, 04:24 PM
OWENMUSTANG

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Kinda $$$ but...
http://www.pierceengineeringltd.com/products.php?item=2
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2009, 04:25 PM
OWENMUSTANG

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Way off topic but...

How long have you had your .260?

The only rifle Remington lists in .260 anymore is the model 7...
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2009, 05:05 PM
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New Old Stock

Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG View Post
... How long have you had your .260?
The only rifle Remington lists in .260 anymore is the model 7....
I bought my Remington 700 Mountain DM about 22 May 2008.
I spent a few months scouring the internet and found a dealer that had two on the self - New Old Stock.
In hindsight, I should have bought the second rifle as well.
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2009, 05:08 PM
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On a Budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG View Post
Kinda $$$ but...
This is why I limiting myself to factory actions.
OEM is just fine with me.
Moreover, it is what I can afford to perform minor modifications or lightly customize.
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2009, 05:18 PM
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No Hinged Floorplate For Me ... If I Can Help It

Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG View Post
... The only rifle Remington lists in .260 anymore is the model 7....
Yes, I've looked at the Model Seven.
Beautiful little rifle ... But, I prefer a detachable magazine.
A low mounted scope may interfer with loading the internal magazine.

The .350 REM Mag version should be easy and not to costly to convert to 6.5 REM Mag.
But, it would have a hinged floorplate.
I really want a detachable box magazine.

I own only one rifle without a box magazine - Marlin 39 Texan.
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2009, 11:04 PM
small
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Looks like you have your reasoning pretty well thought out. You don't say what the rifle will be used for. Long range target? Hunting? North America?

Since you are not looking for Magnum loads, have you thought of the 6.5x55 Swede, or 257 Roberts or 257 AI? The 257AI will get out there quicker then the 6.5 Rem Mag but without the energy (On avg.)

I'm in the process of building and having built a Yugo Mauser 24/47 originally 8mm Mauser, cost $140 on GB, Lothar Walther Barrel 6.5x55 in a heavy sporter contour $200 install $150 (True action and thread barrel and finish cut chamber, cut barrel to length and re crown if needed) Bolts already bent so no change there. Drill and tap for scope bases $20/hole (Discount because oft he other work he has done for me) I'm polishing the action and will Blue all metal myself, shape the trigger guard and reshape and finish the stock.

Sounds like you have the scope you would need to add bases to that $30

Looking at $600 to have a rifle you built with the aid of a Smith that should shoot sub MOA and meet your criteria. Unless I'm way off.

If you hand load you maybe able to do all the same on a Mauser 98 Action and have the bolt face open for a magnum case. Mauser actions were just not made to hold up to magnum pressures.

Good luck and let us hear how things turn out.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2009, 11:23 PM
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Savage action with magnum bolt face. pick your length. anything built around the WSM series feeds well with 6.5 mag class cases. barrel swap is easy as pie too.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2009, 04:27 PM
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Mule Deer, Hogs, Coyote and Jack Rabbits in West Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by small View Post
... You don't say what the rifle will be used for.
Long range target? Hunting? North America?
I planning on hunting mule deer, antelope, coyote and jack rabbits in West Texas, Pecos County,
at the LYNAUGH (LH) Correctional Institutions Division - Prison ... Texas Department of Criminal Justice.
As a state employee, I'm allowed to hunt and shoot on the grounds of this state facility.

My 700 Mountain DM .260 REM will be my general purpose rifle for shooting and hunting out to about 350 yards.

My second rifle maybe a 700 CDL or BDL DM chambered for 6.5 REM Mag. or .264 WIN Mag for use with heavier, longer bullets.
The barrel will have a heavy, sporter contour with a slightly faster twist to better stabilize the weightier projectiles.
If I do my part, this rifle may extend my effective range beyond 350 yards to maybe 500 yards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by small View Post
... Since you are not looking for Magnum loads, have you thought of the 6.5x55 Swede, or 257 Roberts or 257 AI?
The 257AI will get out there quicker then the 6.5 Rem Mag but without the energy (On avg.)
I looked at the 6.5x55 SE.
But the lack of a detachable box magazine caused me to go with the .260 REM.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2009, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post

My purpose is to achieve a minimum velocity of 2600 fps with 155 gr to 160 gr bullets.
And, 2800 fps with 139 to 142 gr bullets from a 22 inch barrel.

With this goal in-mind, can the 6.5 Rem Mag be chambered in a NON-magnum specific action?
For example, can a rifle originally chambered for a short action round such as the .308 Win,
that is rebarreled and the bolt-head changed, safely handle the 6.5 REM Mag?
And, will a 6.5 REM Mag cartridge function in a magazine intended for a .308 Win?
With this goal in-mind, can the 6.5 Rem Mag be chambered in a NON-magnum specific action?

Yes, but...

For example, can a rifle originally chambered for a short action round such as the .308 Win, that is rebarreled and the bolt-head changed, safely handle the 6.5 REM Mag?

Yes

And, will a 6.5 REM Mag cartridge function in a magazine intended for a .308 Win?

No. The mag cartridge is fatter and will require a modified / different magazine.

The 260 Rem appears to meet the parameters of your scope with factory ammo:

Remington quotes muzzle velocities of 2890 (120 gr) and 2750 (140 gr).
Federal quotes MV of 2930 (120 gr) and 2700 (140 gr).

Seems like an awful lot of trouble and expense to convert to 6.5 RM for an extra 100 fps.
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  #11  
Old 06-18-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
I want a contemporary rifle chambered for the 6.5 REM Mag.
Why? I own a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .260 REM.
Loaded with heavy bullets velocity is diminished because
the bullets need to be seated deeply into the case.


Or, as an alternative a Remington 700 CDL or BDL
originally chambered in 7mm REM Mag being converted to 6.5 REM Mag.
Why, because it is my understanding the 7mm is the parent case of the 350 REM Mag
from which the 6.5 is derived from.
Some more thoughts:

The 260 Rem may be a bit cramped with 160 grain bullets, but 160 grainers are certainly not needed for deer & varmints. They are all round nose or some other poor ballistic coefficient configuration. Fine for something really big up close, but your hunting will be neither big nor close.

If you can't get it done with a 140 grain Partition, it's time for a larger caliber.

The whole purpose of the 6.5 RM is to put extra case capacity in a short action. If you are willing to use a long action, use a 6.5mm-06 or 264 WM.

If you feel compelled to make a change consider the semi-wildcat 6.5x284. No bolt head change needed.

Last edited by natman; 06-18-2009 at 11:25 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2009, 02:21 PM
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6.5 REM Mag Generating NON-Magnum Velocities

Quote:
Originally Posted by natman View Post
... The 260 Rem appears to meet the parameters of your scope with factory ammo:

Remington quotes muzzle velocities of 2890 (120 gr) and 2750 (140 gr).
Federal quotes MV of 2930 (120 gr) and 2700 (140 gr).

Seems like an awful lot of trouble and expense to convert to 6.5 RM for an extra 100 fps.
My goals were to to maintain at least 2600 fps with the 155 gr to 160 gr bullets.
And 2800 fps with 139 to 142 gr bullets. Or, even 140 gr to 144 gr bullets as well.

Using a 22 inch barrel with non-compressed charges.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #13  
Old 06-18-2009, 02:50 PM
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7mm REM Mag Converted to 6.5mm REM Mag

Quote:
Originally Posted by natman View Post
The 260 Rem may be a bit cramped with 160 grain bullets,
but 160 grainers are certainly not needed for deer & varmints.
They are all round nose or some other poor ballistic coefficient configuration.
Fine for something really big up close, but your hunting will be neither big nor close.
I was looking at the heavier, round nose bullets for brush busting on the Edwards Plateau.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natman View Post
The whole purpose of the 6.5 RM is to put extra case capacity in a short action.
If you are willing to use a long action, use a 6.5mm-06 or 264 WM.
I was looking at a 7mm REM Mag action for the conversion because
the bolt face is correct, a detachable box magazine is available
and so is an off-the-shelf stock.
I cannot find a 6.5 REM Mag action with a detachable box magazine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natman View Post
If you feel compelled to make a change consider the semi-wildcat 6.5x284.
No bolt head change needed.
I looked at the 6.5x284 and the .264 WIN Mag ... both are over-kill for my purposes.
In comparison, the 6.5 REM Mag seems to be a very efficient cartridge for achieving my modest goals.
Quote:
Why long range target shooters have not discovered the 6.5mm Remington Magnum
as an attractive alternative to the 6.5mm-284 is something of a mystery to me.
The two cartridges offer essentially identical performance....

The balance swings the other way if you are looking for a long range hunting cartridge.
The 6.5mm Rem. Mag. is a better design than the 6.5mm-284 Norma
for feeding from the box magazine of a repeating hunting rifle.
It has also been around longer as a factory standardized cartridge
and there are more factory produced rifles available on the used market....

The way things stand as I write these words,
if you are looking for a long range match cartridge, go with the 6.5mm-284 Norma.
If you are looking for a cartridge for a hunting rifle, the 6.5mm Remington Magnum is the better choice.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #14  
Old 06-18-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
I was looking at the heavier, round nose bullets for brush busting on the Edwards Plateau.


I was looking at a 7mm REM Mag action for the conversion because
the bolt face is correct, a detachable box magazine is available
and so is an off-the-shelf stock.
I cannot find a 6.5 REM Mag action with a detachable box magazine.


I looked at the 6.5x284 and the .264 WIN Mag ... both are over-kill for my purposes.
In comparison, the 6.5 REM Mag seems to be a very efficient cartridge for achieving my modest goals.
If you are going to be "brush busting" with 160 grainers, the tiny loss of velocity due to deep seating the bullets is irrelevant.

If you are going to do the 7mmRM to 6.5mmRM conversion with a barrel swap, just get a 30-06 / 270 and rebarrel to 6.5-06. Brass would be a LOT easier to find.

From a Chuck Hawks comparison of the 6.5 RM and 6.5-284:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5-284_6-5RemMag.htm

"Here are the case capacities of our two cartridges.
  • 6.5mm-284 Norma = 68.33 grains of water
  • 6.5mm Rem. Mag. = 68.64 grains of water"
So I don't see how the 6.5-284 can be "over-kill" since its capacity is slightly less than the 6.5 RM.
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  #15  
Old 06-18-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
My goals were to to maintain at least 2600 fps with the 155 gr to 160 gr bullets.
And 2800 fps with 139 to 142 gr bullets. Or, even 140 gr to 144 gr bullets as well.

Using a 22 inch barrel with non-compressed charges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22
Why, to take full advantage of the bullet drop compensation characteristics of a Leupold Mid-Range Tactical scope with a Tactical Milling Reticle - page 9.

Quote:
The hash marks and tic marks on the vertical crosswire are calibrated to
two popular long range service rounds, the 5.56mm NATO SS109 at 2800 fps
(carbine velocity) and the 7.62mm NATO 118 LR at 2600 fps (rifle velocity).
It seems to me that your requirement is to get a velocity (2600-2800fps) that matches your choice of scope. The 260 Rem does that out of the box.

Your goal of an extra 100 - 150fps isn't required to match the scope. It seems more like a rationalization to justify doing something you've already decided to do - convert to 6.5 RM. Which is fine, it's your rifle, your time and your money.

I just haven't seen any requirement that would justify spending the time, money and effort to reach your goal.
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