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Old 04-10-2009, 04:36 PM
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M.T. Guns: BI-7-2 Basic With Aperature Sights ... Alternative to AzizaVFR Solution



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MT Guns Anschutz Inventory
M.T. Guns: Izhmash BB Sights


Quote:
We get many requests for the Izhmash Biathlon Basic 7-2 with iron sights,
however, Russian American does not import that model.

Mac has come up with this combination:
Air Force Rear Aperture Sight, $138.95; Lyman 93 Front Globe Sight, $52;
and a Barrel Band to mount the front sight, $35.

Total price for the sight package (which mounts without machine work) is $225.95.
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2009, 06:09 PM
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AirForce Adaptive Rear Target Sight

The AirForce match sight set - Part 1

Crisp click adjustments and vivid scales let the shooter know
exactly where the sight is adjusted.

AirForce Adaptive Rear Target Sight

New AirForce aperture rear sight adjusts high or low to suit the front sight.
It will be sold separately for use with existing front sights.
Quote:
Rear sight
The new rear sight will be of particular interest to target shooters because it will sell for about $140
--or less than half the cost of a similar European precision aperture.
Where other Sporter-class aperture sights have click adjustments of 1/4 minute, this AirForce unit has 1/8 minute.
Of course at 10 meters, the adjustments are only slightly more than a tenth as far as they are at 100 yards,
but the AirForce sight really allows for adjustments of half the distance of the sights with which it competes
LYMAN 93 Match Globe Front Sight

Quote:
The 93 Match Globe Sight clamps securely to dovetail bases.
The 93 Match Globe Front Sight has been designed to fit any rifle.
The 93 match sight (7/8" diameter) mounts on a standard dovetail base.
It is supplied with seven Anschutz size inserts.
The sight height is .550 from the top of the dovetail to the center of the aperture.
Hooked locking bolt and nut provide a positive installation while allowing quick removal.
Accepts most Anschutz accessories.
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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #3  
Old 04-10-2009, 07:34 PM
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It is interesting how Mac is using a scope ring to mount the rear sight. I was looking at the Air Force sights for a while when they were listed on the Pyramyd Air site. Since the rear aperture is mounted at a fixed height, it would be interesting to see what the adjustment range would be within the rear housing.

The sticky above has my completed rifle. The amount of adjustment the rear sight is over 0.5" of vertical sight adjustment, with a sight radius of 27", I have 69 MOA of adjustment.
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  #4  
Old 04-10-2009, 08:05 PM
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AzizaVFR Weighs-In

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzizaVFR View Post
Since the rear aperture is mounted at a fixed height,
it would be interesting to see what the adjustment range would be within the rear housing.
AzizaVFR ... I so glad you are weighing-in on this topic.
I had a similar mental observation about the scope ring mounting of the rear sight.
An interesting solution with some built-in limitations.
Since the rear sight vertical mounting bracket has been eliminated.
Then, the gross elevation adjustment capability is gone as well.
Perhaps, I'm missing something?
Could it be at rimfire ranges the adjustment range not needed?
Or, scope ring mounting base riser blocks may provide gross elevation adjustments - if needed.
I think by request the M.T. Guns design will be evolving.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AzizaVFR View Post
The sticky above has my completed rifle.
The amount of adjustment the rear sight is over 0.5" of vertical sight adjustment,
with a sight radius of 27", I have 69 MOA of adjustment.
Dovetail cut in BB barrel? - Aperture Sights for BI 7-2, Engineering Grade Epoxy
Quote:
Here is what all the parts
I have listed looks like assembled.
Complete shot:

Front sight: Lipski barrel band, 0.225" dovetail,
and Lyman 93 Match sight:

Rear sight: Daisy Avanti rear aperture,
Brownells dovetail base:
All-in-all, M.T. Guns has made a good effort to provide the BI-7-2 owner
with the option of an aperture sight at a reasonable price.
By all appearance, no permanent changes have been made to the rifle.
And, it looks like all the modifications maybe easily reversed.

By the way, it is true ... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
I believe the M.T. Guns design has unintentionally complimented AzizaVFR's engineering.
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2009, 06:20 PM
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Hunting/Plinking Peep Sight

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
I think by request the M.T. Guns design will be evolving.
My question to M.T. Guns
Quote:
Can this rifle be equipped with a hunting/plinking style peep-sight.
That is a smaller, more compact, adjustable peep-sight system
that is not a competition target sight.
Response from M.T. Guns
Quote:
Hello
Yes it can be fitted with simple peep sights but our customer base has been interested in competition sights.
Because of the Weaver rail the sights must be mounted at a high center line above the barrel resulting in a high front sight.
I have seen some inexpensive rear sights in Gun Digest that fit a Weaver rail.
Also AR-15 rail sights can be purchased for a little as $30 but require a high front sight.
Thanks for the exposure on Rimfire Central.

Regards

Mac Tilton
I was thinking along the lines of AR-15 type sights

that would be adaptable to a weaver rail may work nicely.
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2009, 04:19 AM
AzizaVFR
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For the front sight, you could buy a Champion Choice front barrel dovetail mount for $30 to use with the Air Force front sight.

http://www.champchoice.com/detail.aspx?ID=1295



The biggest issue is still using the Weaver rear mount. I am looking for a good high end rear target sight for an AR-15 project chambered in .22LR. All the ones I have looked at which can take advantage of the Picatinny rail on the top receiver cost more than the upper and lower receiver combined (greater than $300), The most cost effective way is adding the barrel band above, the sight set from Pyramyd Air (when they ever get them in stock), and also buy the dovetail rail from Brownells, referenced in other thread. It would retain the rear gross adjustment on the rear. In the same fashion of high power shooting, most major changes of elevation are done with the front sight height, only using the rear for fine adjustment. You would be able to build it with more adjustability for less money.

Also, have you noticed, all the really fine target rifles with aperture/globes use dovetails, not Weaver/Picatinny mounts...?
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2009, 11:30 AM
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Picatinny Rail versus Weaver Rail

Picatinny Rails, Weaver Rails, What’s The Difference?
By Andrew Swan

Quote:
When you are looking through the Brownells Catalog,
there are many different parts and accessories that use the words Picatinny
and Weaver to describe what they are compatible with.
Just what is a Picatinny Rail anyway? And how is it different from a Weaver?
It will be beneficial to look at the origin of the Picatinny system first.

The “Picatinny Rail” is a term that has evolved in the firearm industry from a military standard,
specifically MIL-STD-1913 (AR) which was adopted on February 3, 1995.
The title of the publication is “Dimensioning Of Accessory Mounting Rail For Small Arms Weapons”
and this document specified exactly what the dimensions and tolerances were for any mounting systems
that were to be submitted for acceptance by the military.
The term “Picatinny” comes from the place of origin for this system, the Picatinny Arsenal located in New Jersey.
MIL-STD-1913 specifies the dimensions required for consideration, including length, width, height,
and angles and the tolerances allowed for each measurement.
The key distinction of the MIL-STD-1913 lies in the specification for the profile and the recoil groove.


Source: MIL-STD-1913 (AR) 3 February 1995


Source: MIL-STD-1913 (AR) 3 February 1995

What are the differences between the “Picatinny” and the “Weaver” systems?
The profile of the two systems is virtually identical.
Depending on the quality of the machining done by the manufacturer,
the two systems should be indistinguishable from the profile.
The key difference lies in the placement of the recoil grooves and with width of the grooves.
MIL-STD-1913 (Picatinny) grooves are .206” wide and have a center-to-center width of .394”.
The placement of these grooves has to be consistent in order for it to be a true “Picatinny” MIL-STD system.
Weaver systems have a .180” width of recoil groove and are not necessarily consistent
in a center-to-center measurement from one groove to the next.
In many instances, a Weaver system has a specific application that it is machined for,
so interchangeability is not necessarily an issue.
A MIL-STD-1913 system must adhere to the specifications listed above in order for it to be considered MIL-STD,
since the military desires uniformity in the recoil grooves to allow for different systems
to be mounted on the weapon with no concern for compatibility.

Now, what does this mean to you?
Boiled down, it means that accessories designed for a Weaver system will,
in most cases, fit on a “Picatinny” system.
The reverse, however, is probably not the case.
Due to the larger recoil groove, “Picatinny” accessories will not fit a Weaver system.
There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, but for a good rule-of-thumb,
“Picatinny” won’t fit Weaver, but Weaver will fit “Picatinny”.
This poses a problem for mounting MIL-STD-1913 sights on a Weaver rail.
I guess a easy solution would be to mill the slot of the existing Weaver rail
a little wider where the rear sight is to be mounted.

This shouldn't be hard or expensive to do.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2009, 01:37 PM
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Dovetail Sight Mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzizaVFR View Post
Also, have you noticed, all the really fine target rifles with aperture/globes use dovetails, not Weaver/Picatinny mounts...?
The method of mounting sights by using dovetails has been around for much longer than the Weaver or Picatinny rail system.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2009, 02:59 PM
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JP Enterprises & DPMS Detachable Sights

AR-15 National Match Style Sights
JP Enterprises Detachable Sights

Shorty A2 type match Rear sight Made by DPMS

Quote:
DPMS Sights
If a more rugged rear sight is needed, the DPMS detachable flat-top sight is the choice.
Essentially an A-2 rear sight without the handle,
this compact sight will attach on any Weaver or Picatinny rail
and has the standard twin apertures for fine or course sight picture.
JP Detachable Front Sight

Quote:
The JPFS-ALS is not a plain old military version
but a Lyman #93 target globe with inserts for maximum flexibility and precision.
This new design features .300" of possible height adjustment
to allow use with a wide variety of rail heights and rear sight hardware.
It has a slide-lock adjustment method with an additional set screw lock
under the sight platform for added rigidity and easy adjustment.
When used with an A2-type rear sight such as the DPMS shorty A2 sight,
it allows the rear sight zero to be set to actual zero for proper use of the elevation dial.
When used with receiver sights that have more elevation travel,
our adjustable front sight allows for a lower overall sight plane relative to the bore,
resulting in a tighter cheek weld on the stock if desired.
Or, a less expensive, alternative front sight
that would be more suitable for plinking or hunting.

DPMS Detachable Front Sight


Also, a variety of sight posts are available - even an aperature.
KNS Hooded Front Sight Post (Duplex Crosshair)

Quote:
KNS A2 Front Sight Post. Hooded sight body prevents light interference
while duplex crosshair allows for precision shot placement.
National Match DCM Front Sight Post

Quote:
4 sided square post .050 wide. Interchangeable with standard AR sights. Steel & phosphated.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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