Help with the Russian world of rimfire ... CM2 from CDNN, CIA or MT Guns vs MkII FVT - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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Old 06-24-2008, 11:51 PM
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Help with the Russian world of rimfire



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Im new to this section of RFC but not to RFC itself. I have a handful of rimfire rifles and am looking to enter into a new section that I haven't shot before. I am looking to pick up a rifle that is equipped with aperture sights and would like to try prone shooting, plinking some steel targets, and also a bit of iron sight bench rest.

My initial thought was the Savage MK I FVT which is their single shot heavy barrel model with Williams sights on it. The local store has one in and it isn't at a terrible price at $315. Personally though that gun fills nothing for me but potentially the plinking. The plastic stock is pure junk and would need replaced which if I am looking for a prone stock it will be a bit hard to find one with a rail in it. I also am a bit turned off with their receiver build quality and their pinned barrels. It just seems cheap to me and isn't the quality I am hoping for.

I have two CZs right now that I LOVE. The one wears a fairly high powered scope and is a BLAST to shoot from a bench. It won't win me any competitions but it sure will knock shotgun hulls over at 100 yards which is good enough for me and my budget. The other is their trainer model which has great iron sights for hunting and maybe plinking but beyond that they really are still on the crude side, well the non-precise side. My next thought was to pick up a set of aperture sights for it which I still may do as they only seem to run about $100 if I remember right. Not terrible but I love the idea of getting another rifle instead of parts for a current rifle.

So that brings me to Russian rifles. I love the bolt system on the Biathlon models but it seems to find one that has aperture sights will run me around $1300 which is a bit out of my price range here. I have seen a few of the Biathlon 7-2 models with what looks like the sights off of a CM2. That would be my ideal rifle as I really think the side pull mechanism of the Biathlon would be a cool alternative to the standard bolt action and those sights would cover everything I am looking for on that front. I just can't seem to find places that sell them.

That then brings me to the CM2. Here I get a bit confused. After looking around it seems like MTguns is selling new unfired Izhmash CM2 rifles. Then I look around a bit and I check cdnn and see they are selling "Soviet Bloc CM2" rifles. After looking around a bit more I run into CIA and find a similar Vostok CM2, which is what I assume CDNN is selling. I wouldn't doubt that CDNN is sold out of these and I would have to call to check. I also am going to have my local dealer call CIA and see what they can get me one of their CM2s for.

Since the CM2 seems to be the gun that fills all three wants out of this next rifle I was wondering about the difference, if any, between what MTguns is selling and what CDNN and CIA are selling. Obviously the CDNN and CIA rifles are used. I know you can get real prizes and real lemons from used rifles of this nature. I was wondering first off if these rifles were of the same quality as those MTguns is selling. I know a lot of times rifles were made in different factories and while they look the same in a general picture they are often on far different quality levels. The second thing I was wondering was the actual condition of these rifles. Again assuming CDNN or CIA still has some, what is the general opinion of the condition of the CM2s that come from these two? Are they good bores with good metal and dinged up wood or are they going to be pitted metal, damaged/repaired wood, lousy shooters? I do care a bit about price as I am still in college but I certainly don't want to waste money on a rifle that is worn out and out of life. I have no problem at all forking over the extra money for a new CM2 from MTguns if it is likely to be a far better shooter than those from CDNN or CIA. I don't care a ton about dings in the wood, I just want a shooter. I have read a ton of great things about the CM2 and its accuracy but I always assumed they were shooting rifles bought new and not used.

Lastly, are there any other suggestions for a decent aperture sighted rifle in the sub $500 range? I have looked at the CMP Kimbers and for the money they don't seem to shoot good enough. I am still a bit interested in picking up aperture sights for the CZ and maybe picking up a 3 position stock for it. The old BRNO stocks seem to fit it and they seem to be available if you know where to look. At that point though I will probably have a good $250-$300 in it and would be close to just getting another rifle and leaving the CZ a squirrel gun. I also saw that Military Gun Supply had Schultz & Larson M70 rifles for $300. Anyone know anything about these? I don't have any information on them.

Any and all suggestions or comments are welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Last edited by aom22; 07-31-2008 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Restore Original Title
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:35 PM
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Mk II FVT vs CM-2

Kevin6q bought a Savage Mk II FVT for his wife.
Read his thread.

This post in his thread has some information you maybe intersted in:
Target Talk: Savage MKII FVT

Meets (most) Criteria & Affordable
Quote:
Start saving your money for what you really want.
In the long run ... it will cost less,
if you go for the very best you can afford.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 06-26-2008 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Add Link
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:42 PM
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I would get the new CM-2 adult its ready to go right out of the box.
http://www.mtguns.com/cm-2.htm
The older surplus Vostok CM-2 are nice rifles but they may or may not
come with all the peep sight equipment like different apertuers & such.
Here is the sight equipment that came with my CM-2.

Last edited by midwest swiss; 06-25-2008 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:32 AM
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As AOM said I bought an FVT for my wife. I should have purchased a CM or BB. The Savage is okay and shoots well enough but has a lot to be desired. The Stock on the FVT sucks, just an awful piece of plastic and cheap looking too. This screws with the weight distribution and there are few places to add anything to fix this hassle. Also, the gun is too long and there is no way to cut the stock since its hollow. The rifle is in the midst of a restock job. As for shooting it works just fine. The trigger is a bit rough and the bolt is not as smooth as the Izhmash. In short, my advice is go with the Russian rifles. They are a lot of gun for the money.
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Old 06-26-2008, 09:06 AM
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Welcome to the Russian forum. Last Fall, I went through about the same process it sounds like you've been going through. Eliminated the Kimber, Savage, and finally accepted that the BB with diopter sights is just a dirty trick by the Russians to get us all excited before they pull the rug out. (Sorry, is not available in America.) If it could be had, I'm pretty confident the AOM would keep us posted. (This sub-forum has excellent moderation by the way. We appreciate your excellence AOM. )

Anyway, Midwest Swiss et. al. convinced me that the CM-2 was the best value, and that it's a decision that you'll always be happy with.

Lest I give the impression that I have any real knowledge, I'm actually still saving for the CM-2. I ended up with a family issue...a 5-teen family issue and felt a 513T was priority. However, I freely admit, that was an emotional decision and the most purely logical choice would be the CM-2.
RT
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:42 PM
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I wonder if there is a source for getting those sights by themselves? I would kill for the diopter/globe setup off of a CM-2, especially if I could fit it to my BB. Has anyone looked into this?
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:14 PM
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rear sight for CM2

I have a rear target sight that came on my Vostock CM2, but it isn't a diopter. Due to vision problems I had my CM2 DT and fitted with scope blocks. If you're interested in the rear sight, I'd part with it. PM if you're interested.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:23 PM
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Talking Cm-2

Benzy,
Don't buy it for its looks, lol but the gun will shoot! It's not all that ugly, well.......maybe it is, but holy smoke the gun will shoot! My CZ's and my Annie are collecting dust because of Miss Pretty Is As Pretty Does. If you are thinking about using it for prone competition it will not hold you back. Replace the rail so you can get a better handstop than what comes with the rifle. Rails are cheap. This gun gives me warm fuzzies when I shoot it. When I shoot 9's I know it is completely my fault.
I have mine set up with a 6" sight extension with clamp, Anschutz riser block for the rear sight, Anschutz front globe for grooved barrel, 2.4-4.4 Gehman adjustable front iris and soon will have an adjustable cheek piece. It'll be a 91-13. Seriously, the the gun is way, way, way undervalued.
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:23 PM
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Say.....Charlotte we would love to see a picture
of your CM-2....Beast ...oops...Miss pretty
I think the CM-2 is a good looking rifle.


Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 07-01-2008 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:15 AM
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Swiss, As soon as my daughter spends enough time with me to take Miss Pretty's picture I will definitely put it up and then after I have the cheekpiece thing done I'll post again.

Benzy, I really do encourage you to go for the new CM-2. You'll have ALL the accessories including a sling and then you can start worrying about all the other equipment that goes into shooting competitively and do it one piece at a time. Your next investment if you are going to be shooting prone is going to be #1 a jacket and #2 a spotting scope and stand. On the jacket, you can find a used one pretty easy, but look for the jackets that have buttons and not buckles (ISSF smallbore rule). If you are going to shoot high power then reverse the recommendation. Check for used spotting scopes. A great website for used gear http://www.nealjguns.com/
On the Kimber 82G, I think they are really fine rifles and capable of staying inside the 10 ring, but remember this, it ain't the arrows, it's the Indian.
Kiddo, get the CM-2 and get yourself in a match ASAP. I'm just smitten with everybody I shoot with in my matches. A couple of months ago I got to shoot in a match with a young woman who is now on the Olympic team. How cool is that?
http://www.usashooting.com/athlete.php?id=106
And another thing, My CM-2 isn't too picky about ammo. I'm shooting SK Match @ about $6.50 per box in matches and I practice with Federal 714 ($1.30 per box) and 711B ($4.00) I still have 2 1/2 cases of 714 and it's discontinued.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:52 PM
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Interesting...

Can anyone direct me to actual pics of CM-2 bought from either Century Arms or CDNN? I'd love to see what the sights look like and know whether or not any accessories were included.

Thanks in advance and a good weekend to all!
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:52 PM
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Here are both of mine one from CDNN and one from Century. Neither came with accessories. Both had small peep front sights and very nice target rear sights. Overall I am very happy with both. The CM-2 came from CDNN and the Vostok came from Century.
http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/cajuncj/CM%202/
http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...ncj/CM-2%20-2/
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:14 PM
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singleshotcajun,
Thanks for the pics, condition aside, which would you say is the better of the two?

I see there are differences in the bolt, rear sights, receiver rail (single vs double), finish (paint on CM-2 vs epoxy on the Vostok), etc., but both look very similar. Do you know if one is more modern than the other or were they both made during the same time?

Were rear and front sights complete as received from the dealers?

Thanks again!
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:25 PM
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I think he got the same deal as me. No extras.

Mine does not have the Hand stop/slight mount, sling, extra apertures, or any of that stuff. My rifle is the same as the first one he posted.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:06 AM
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I think the Vostok is a newer version and I have to give it a slight edge in accuracy. Both came with complete rear sights. I applied the Krylon black wrinkle to the CM-2 from CDNN. The Vostok was purchased on Gunbroker, it came from Century I beleive as a good-incomplete. The only thing it was missing was one of the action screws which was easily replaced. I got the handstop from Champion shooters suppy and had to do a little grinding to make it fit. The rear sight on the Vostok is on par with anyones sight I believe and that is were it gets its edge.
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