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  #1  
Old 05-21-2008, 04:49 PM
ToxicSports

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OK...let's look at aftermarket BB stocks once again.



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Gang,

since the golf season is in full swing I have been building and repairing clubs for the members at work and I've been way too busy to shoot.

HOWEVER...I have been able to get a bit more info on some stocks for the BB. The one custom stock maker is AWOL so I had to look elsewhere.

Now the latest company that I contacted is Mcmillan and they had some interesting tidbits of info.


http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-stocks.php

Here is the E-mail that I received asking about a custom inletted stock.

Quote:
Scott,
Sorry, but we do not do any one-of-a-kind inletting. Just the process of making a blueprint of the rifle and writing the CNC software programming for our CNC inletting machines is often a 8 to 12 hour process and can cost from $600 to $1200 just for the software.
The best I could offer you is a flat top un-inletted blank if you can find someone to hand inlet it for you.
Regards, McMillans
OK so...I contacted Marc Shepard at Altius to see if he has any knowledge of inletting the stocks in question. For some reason I think he'll be in the dark about where to start with them since I doubt they work like wood.

So I thought that since I have no problems paying the cost of the CNC program for the BB inletting I could probably make some money in aftermarket stocks.

Are there any more interests in a Mcmillan stock?


I'll see what they say about the inlet program and if/when they could start.

I have no idea what the final cost will be but I'll try to see if we can keep them as low as possible.

Now, I don't want to sound like an @sshole but this isn't for the weak of heart and I'll save everyone who will post "I'm interested depending on price" in the future by saying that the stocks will probably be around the same cost of the rifles OR higher depending on the styels and options. More likeely HIGHER since it seems that the average price in in the $500's.

I'll have more info later this week.

Scott

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  #2  
Old 05-21-2008, 05:16 PM
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CNC Programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicSports View Post
I'll see what they say about the inlet program and if/when they could start.
Scott,

I've done some manual and computer aided CNC programming.
It is a complicated process.

However, it can be simplified by some reverse programming (read: reverse engineering).

By using a coordinate measuring machine, a digitized map of a sample specimen or prototype can be generated.

The software required is very, very expensive.
In recent years, less costly, alternative software has become available.

My point, 600 to 1200 dollars for an in-letting program is not unreasonable.
Moreover, another program for shaping the stock will be required as well.
And, the program(s) would be the property of stockmaker - not the customer.

If you're thinking of reproducing a civilian legal SV-99 stock, at 600 dollars it would be a bargain.
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Last edited by aom22; 05-21-2008 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Modify Text for Clarity
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Old 05-21-2008, 05:44 PM
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Composite Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicSports View Post
OK so...I contacted Marc Shepard at Altius to see if he has any knowledge of inletting the stocks in question.
For some reason I think he'll be in the dark about where to start with them since I doubt they work like wood
Composite stocks and wooden stocks are totally different animals.
It is easier and much less complicated to work with wood.

Working knowledgeably with composite materials requires specialized technical training.

Training that is not readily available.

OJT on fiberglass boats, automotive body parts, skateboards or surfboards does not translate to knowledgeable.

Stick with wood for now.
At a later time, a wooden stock maybe used to form a mold for a composite stock.
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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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Last edited by aom22; 05-22-2008 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Modify Text for Clarity
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:51 PM
ToxicSports

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Well,

All the info was taken in AOM.

I agree that the program would be Mcmillan's but with licensing and a contract I can have the rights to the inletting even for a limited time. It all depends on how the contract is written and agreed upon by both parties.

The initial stocks would be the Mcmillan line up with the SV-99 style at a later date but not far off if this gets off the ground. Yeah the program for the molds would be EXTREMELY expensive but as you and many others who can see the big picture would agree that it would be worth it in the long run.

This isn't a get rich quick deal...hell it's not even a get rich slow deal. It's more of a get your initial investment back and make a little profit to keep the prices as affordable as possible.

As for the wood stocks I would love to be able to get a deal going with a large CNC wood stock company but those that I contacted are so booked they didn't even seem to want to talk about such a thing. Well, that and it's a SMALL market and they probably didn't want to mess with it.

Oh well, I'll get something going for us.

Scott

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Old 05-21-2008, 09:06 PM
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Small (Low Production) Stock Manufacturer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicSports View Post
... Well, that and it's a SMALL market
and they probably didn't want to mess with it.
Absolutely correct !!!
So, a small, specialty, low production, CNC capable, stock manufacturer is probably your best bet.
Lone Wolf Riflestocks ~ Custom Rifles
MPI FIBERGLASS STOCKS


Maybe, a foreign manufacturer.
Wild Dog Australia Pty Ltd
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Last edited by aom22; 05-21-2008 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Add Links
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:55 PM
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Semi-Synthetic Stock

Scott,
I lost some sleep last night ... thinking about your project.

I have a concept for you.
The Semi-Synthetic Rifle Stock.

In the early days of plastic products,
the constituent elements were plant cellulose and an organic resin.

In modern composite parts, the elements are a synthetic fiber (fiber glass, Kevlar, carbon fiber)
and a synthetic plastic resin (epoxy based).

If one were to substitute an organic fiber
for the synthetic fiber in the composite formula.

And, of course, a synthetic plastic resin is added.
I
n this case, the organic fiber would be wood.
In-other words, untreated wood is impregnated with a synthetic resin.

Voilà, you've just created a semi-synthetic composite part.

This is why you should pursue your project in wood - for now.
Wood can be easily impregnated with a plastic resin.

For example, the finish on bowling pins.
And, the finish on Remington rifles.
I believe it is polyethylene based finish.

Moreover, a finished wood stock can be used to create
the mold needed to replicate the rifle stock as a composite part.
As a hand-laid part or injection molded, either method requires a mold.
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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 05-27-2008 at 06:28 PM. Reason: Modify Text for Clarity
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2008, 12:40 PM
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Contemporary Example of Concept - Sort Of

CZ is producing an assault rifle that incorporates a synthetic stock.
Well, sort of ...
The stock is a combination of organic (non-synthetic) wood fiber and a plastic (synthetic) resin.

Release: VZ 58 Tactical Sporter, and VZ 58 Military Sporter



Quote:
Stock: ... Wood-impregnated plastic (Military Sporter)
I believe the stock is produced by a molding process.
The mold-able material is a plastic resin mixed with chopped wood fibers.

With a modern composite material, the fibers might be chopped fiberglass (Kevlar, carbon fiber, etc.).
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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:30 PM
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Carbon Fiber and Wood Laminate Rifle Stocks

Scott,

I think I've found a company that might be suitable for your project.


Eberlestock USA LLC.

A small company currently producing advanced biathlon rifle stocks.
Eberlestock 2006



And, a company willing to experiment with and develop new concepts and products.
More about the Eberlestock story:
Quote:
Contrary to the rest of the shooting world, Glen believed that if you built the rifle right,
you could still shoot a lighter gun as accurately as a heavy one.

His work led him to win a research grant from the United States Olympic Committee.

With this in hand, he began a consultation with engineers, biomechanical experts, and NASA scientists.

He developed a design which combines the best qualities of wood
with the outstanding qualities of modern composite materials.

It was considerably lighter than a standard wood stock, and virtually unbreakable.
Not exactly an SV-99.
But, maybe Eberlesstock would be interested in the SV-99 concept.
CFW Carbon Fiber and Wood Laminate Rifle Stocks from Eberlestock


Quote:
First developed in 1987, the CFW design grew out of our experience engineering
performance-based stocks for the Olympic sport of biathlon.

These refined works of art are the only stocks in the world
that combine our proprietary combination of carbon fiber and laminated wood.

They are lightweight, ultra-strong, weather proof, and ergonomically superior to any rifle stock made.
.... Full-Sized Hunting Gun:
Quote:
Winchester M70 .338 WM with 26" barrel, Leupold VII 3x9, CFW stock.


Quote:
The CFW line is handmade, and given its complexity, it is incredibly time consuming.

This makes it a bit expensive.

We have plans in development to move to more machine manufacturing,
and we think that in doing so we will achieve a higher quality,
and less expensive, product.

Quote:
CFW stocks can be configured with an optional aluminum chassis
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 06-07-2008 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Modify Text for Clarity & Add Quote
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2008, 07:25 PM
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Eberlestock USA: Urban Tactical Response Rifle


Eberlestock USA LLC.

Here is a prototype take-down stock.

Urban Tactical Response Rifle


Quote:
This is a concept gun, built around our 2006 Olympic Biathlon rifles.
We've pioneered quite a bit of new ground with this design....

As a take-down gun, it is unparalleled:
Light. Rugged. Reliable. Fully Adjustable. Break-down Compactable.

Quote:
Our proprietary tapered dovetail joint,
and the chassis that underlies the action,
are the heart of this beautiful product.

The main components are CNC-milled
and designed so that the joint locks the rifle together
at an indexed, exact position, every time.

It permits easy take-down and accurate re-assembly,
without ever touching the barreled-action,
so there is no impact on accuracy when you take the gun down.


2006 M1

Quote:
.... with Remington 700 .308 with 26" barrel and Leupold 6.5-20 x 50 LR/T.
Note the deep-bellied forestock in combination with the tall scope turrets....
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 06-07-2008 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Add Quote and Link
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