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  #16  
Old 01-06-2020, 01:45 AM
hamden
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Here is a pix where the 41 slide was repaired by a real pro.

Somewhere is the pix of the slide before the weld. Can't find it.
The heavy mass rear of the slide wants to keep going when the lighter mass in front stops. The frame stop point is on the front.
Spring and ammo choice is critical

It is a similar but reverse situation with the High Standard. When the slide hits the rear of the frame, the frame is stressed at the weak link crack point. The rear half of the frame wants to go. But the front half of the frame with the heavy barrel and maybe a dot sight, wants to stay. All the frame cracks I have seen are on Victors. Maybe the lighter slide moves faster and hits harder on the rear lug. ???
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2020, 06:31 AM
LDBennett
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Is this a Hi Std Victor only (and not the other Supermatic's) problem. I have never taken note of which models produce the most cracks. Anyone got input on this? How about a survey of model types of cracked frames?

My thought is that if all is balanced (recoil energy vs slide inertia, slide friction, recoil spring energy absorption, and energy to cock the hammer) then the slide should just gently kiss the recoil stop in the frame. Of course getting that balance with all the variability of Std Vel ammo is probably not easy. But I suspect most frame cracks are caused by poor maintenance (worn out recoil spring) and using ammo other than Std Vel. But what do I know?

LDBennett
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2020, 06:13 PM
Domino
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That is a nice repair.

I wander if the repair would be more than a new slide? Unless of course it is the old style slide which is no longer made and you would have to get it repaired or buy another slide on fleabay.

Thanks for the post.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2020, 05:26 AM
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I shoot HV 22LR ammo through my S&W Model 41 quite regularly. Bought it brand new a dozen years ago. Most of the ammo is SV rounds about a good share of the rounds were HV ammo. I do have a buffer installed and run a heavier spring in the gun. So far so good. I do understand that I *should* run SV ammo through a target gun.
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  #20  
Old 05-16-2020, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mauiblue View Post
I do have a buffer installed and run a heavier spring in the gun. So far so good. I do understand that I *should* run SV ammo through a target gun.
I'm a firm believer in running a buffer in my model 41. I used to shoot high velocity ammo in mine but now shoot mainly CCI - SV. Even with standard velocity ammo the buffer is just added insurance.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:18 AM
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I definitely believe high-velocity ammo can damage semi-auto pistols and have proof to verify it.

I once read where the face of the bolt on Ruger Mark series pistols can become peened from too much HV ammo and not lock back after the last shot.
Just my luck, not long after reading that, the bolt of my old Ruger Mark II began to not lock back after the last shot.
I checked the bolt and sure enough, there's definite signs of peening damage.

For that reason, my two Volquartsen pistols only get SV ammo.
My Pardini SP will certainly not be shot with HV either and comes with a buffer installed to prevent damage even from SV ammo!

So, if you want to get the longest available lifespan from your 22 rimfire pistols, don't use HV ammo in them period, JMO.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2020, 02:17 PM
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Yes better off shooting s v Ammo in them I use aguila it’s accurate and a good value
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  #23  
Old 05-18-2020, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sagittarius View Post
I definitely believe high-velocity ammo can damage semi-auto pistols and have proof to verify it.

I once read where the face of the bolt on Ruger Mark series pistols can become peened from too much HV ammo and not lock back after the last shot.
Just my luck, not long after reading that, the bolt of my old Ruger Mark II began to not lock back after the last shot.
I checked the bolt and sure enough, there's definite signs of peening damage.

For that reason, my two Volquartsen pistols only get SV ammo.
My Pardini SP will certainly not be shot with HV either and comes with a buffer installed to prevent damage even from SV ammo!

So, if you want to get the longest available lifespan from your 22 rimfire pistols, don't use HV ammo in them period, JMO.
Forward bolt velocity has nothing to do with ammo velocity and everything to do with recoil spring strength. Ruger MK pistols and 10/22 rifles I have had cycled just as well with SV as with HV using the same spring, accordingly forward bolt velocity was identical. I never had any problems with bolt peening.
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:02 AM
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I do believe this debate can go on forever, it seems pretty well split. Heck I can see another Civil War Coming
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:13 AM
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I just spoke with a Smith & Wesson representative and was told any SAAMI spec ammunition was fine to use in the model 41.
I wouldn't go there. Mine had problems beating the heck out of itself with 1070fps ammo. I bought mine in the early 90s. Maybe I had some bad metallurgy going on.

I do believe that gunwill shoot beautifully with cci std velocity.
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2020, 08:26 AM
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I wouldn't go there. Mine had problems beating the heck out of itself with 1070fps ammo. I bought mine in the early 90s. Maybe I had some bad metallurgy going on.

I do believe that gunwill shoot beautifully with cci std velocity.
I had a similar experience with a Model 41 that pounded a perfect image of the bolt face insert into the breech face of the barrel. My Volquartsen/MK IV has a laser hardened breech and a case hardened DLC coated bolt. No peening problems there.
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  #27  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_AK View Post
Forward bolt velocity has nothing to do with ammo velocity and everything to do with recoil spring strength. Ruger MK pistols and 10/22 rifles I have had cycled just as well with SV as with HV using the same spring, accordingly forward bolt velocity was identical. I never had any problems with bolt peening.

I believe you but mine did.
Actually, it's peened quite badly and easily seen.
Perhaps my bolt wasn't hardened correctly or maybe needs a new spring.
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  #28  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:59 AM
LDBennett
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When the recoil from the fired shot exactly matches the energy of the recoil spring (other factors are part of the equation) then the slide cycles fully without abusing the slide recoil stop because the slide gently kisses it. When the recoil energy exceeds the recoil springís ability to fully control the slide then the gun frame gets hammered. If the recoil spring is sized up to handle the increased recoil energy of more powerful ammo then the slide closes with more velocity and its bolt face hammers the breech end of the barrel (eventually leaves an imprint or worse or distorts the breach face of the slide). The gun should be fed the least powerful ammo that just locks the slide to the rear on the last shot. The Model 41 is a Target pistol and as such wants Target power level ammo. Ammo such as CCI Std Vel ammo is the perfect candidate AFTER an initial from new break-in procedure of several hundred High Velocity rounds if the gun is at all so tight as to not reliably operate with Std Vel ammo. Once past break-in only use ammo that just reliably locks the slide to the rear on the last shot.

I do not understand why a person would spend well over $1000 for a Target pistol and then shoot High or Hyper Velocity ammo through it to save money on ammo? The most accurate ammo in these guns is regularly Std Vel ammo. Did the buyer not buy this gun for superior accuracy?

Manufacturers often say in their instructions that you can use High velocity ammo in these type guns. But their interest is in selling guns and limiting them to Std Vel ammo (which can be hard to find in some areas) works against that. Besides if you destroy a Target gun with overly powerful ammo then they get to sell you parts or another gun. Shoot these Target guns with the reduced power Std Vel ammo and they will last several lifetimes and give you superb accuracy. Save the Rambo shooting for super rugged pistols like the all steel Ruger MK series guns.

Anyway, thatís my opinion and yours may vary. In the end it is your gun to do with as you please. I choose to not abuse my Model 41 and the many other Target guns I own.

LDBennett
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