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A Japanese W52B with iron sights

9K views 50 replies 25 participants last post by  rexxon123456 
#1 ·
All indications are this is how the rifle came, a fairly knowledgable dealer says he's never seen one but I'm certain I have seen at least one other.











Thoughts, comments etc. are welcome. Thank you.
 
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#4 ·
My repro Winchester 52B is less than 200 above your serial number and doesn't have iron sights. Yours is the first I've seen and IMO it's looks great.

IF your rear sight is made of steel, that suggests the sights were added as Lyman hasn't made those sights in steel for awhile. If you have the original box, the label may indicate if it came with sights from the factory.

The other interesting thing is, my serial number begins "BS" and doesn't have the "W" in front of it.

My other repro is one of the 500 heavy barrel models that Zanders had made.

Factory or not, that's a sweet looking rifle.
 
#7 ·
I have never seen any evidence that suggests that any of the Miroku made 52 rifles came with sights. That being said, I have put sights on two of them, and it's not difficult to do.

It's much more likely that a previous owner did what I have done, and you are the beneficiary of another's efforts.

BRP
Thanks gentlemen and since you both have a longer history with these than I, you are likely correct.
 
#5 ·
I have never seen any evidence that suggests that any of the Miroku made 52 rifles came with sights. That being said, I have put sights on two of them, and it's not difficult to do.

It's much more likely that a previous owner did what I have done, and you are the beneficiary of another's efforts.

BRP
 
#11 ·
I’ve never seen one with factory-installed iron sights. It was always a mystery to me why Browning and Winchester had Miroku drill, tap, and plug screw the receiver for a receiver sight but never (I assume) offered a front sight-equipped 52. Granted, a 52 receiver just would not look right without those plugged holes, but, then again, a 52 Sporting just does not look right without a front sight, so, go figure.

In my opinion, Doubs43 is spot on with his comment about what appears to be a steel Lyman aperture sight, those not being produced during the time of the 52 repros manufacture. Likely, therefore, installed by someone. And finding and installing an original Lyman 48F and a Winchester M70/M52 Solder-on front sight ramp with hood would probably cost what a 52 Repro rifle itself would cost.

In any event, though, those are the sights I would probably install on a Repro, so, very nice. The problem is, can you install a scope with the Lyman in place?

TBR
 
#14 · (Edited)
The problem is, can you install a scope with the Lyman in place?

TBR
The location of the scope base holes on the reproduction 52 rifles (which used the later 52-E hole spacing) precludes mounting both a Lyman 48 and the scope bases. So you have to decide: iron sights or a scope. (Not that the iron sights can actually be used with a scope in place!) But I have both on my 52-C Sporter. :eek:

The original 52-C Sporter had the holes on the rear receiver ring further forward, and that allows one to keep the Lyman 48 in place and still mount a scope. I wish the Miroku 52 rifles had used the 52-C spacing, but alas, they did not.

FWIW, here's my Miroku 52 with a Lyman 48 sight and a Lyman barrel band front sight.






BRP
 
#15 ·
Very nice BRP, you folks have me convinced that these are add ons but I really like them and since I have a scoped 52R (Browning roll marked) I'm good with no scope. Thanks for the education. :bthumb:





It's a good shooter and I'm hoping I can do creditable work with the iron sights as well.
 
#17 ·
Very nice BRP, you folks have me convinced that these are add ons but I really like them and since I have a scoped 52R (Browning roll marked) I'm good with no scope. Thanks for the education. :bthumb:
Gerald, factory or not, that is a classy setup and absolutely beautiful to my eyes. I love it.

IMO, the importers would have sold a LOT more if they had offered the rifle with iron sights from the factory.
 
#16 ·
I have a friend who says he bought one NIB with the Lyman 57 receiver sight and a front sight like yours, Gerald. I don't think this was a catalog version, but maybe a special order?
The original Model 52 Sporter was available with or without sights (Lyman 48 rear and integrally forged ramp front).
 
#18 · (Edited)
In my jaundiced view, none of the Miroku rifles with sights are factory original.


But they certainly lend themselves to being retrofitted, as many have done.


I too have one with Lyman rear aperture and front barrel band sight (sorry about the old poor picture).
 
#26 ·
Yeah, well that's why the slide stop post is there. I have a Rem. M30 with a scope and Lyman, I keep the slide wrapped in waxed paper, under the butt pad.

Interesting thread, I have an NIB Miroku/Winchester 52B downstairs I got years ago but never shot it. It has the Lyman holes but no front sight. It came with scope rings in the box also.

I also have a 52C barreled action I thought about turning into a sporter but never did but at the time I found a Lyman 48F in mint condition. Now I need a front ramp, what's the proper ramp for a 52B sporter?
 
#24 ·
As an aside, I have two rifles on which I installed iron sights, a sporter Anschutz 1427 and an ULA 20, and the addition of the banded front sight ramp actually served to “tune” the barrels. I thought it was a fluke when the Anschutz, on which I had just installed a new Lilja, shot markedly better with the ramp pressed on, but there is no doubt about the tuning effect. I experimented with slight position options and found the sweetest spot for the lots of ammunition I have before finally permanently installing the ramps. Both barrels were relatively thin, making the tuning effect greater, I believe. Just food for thought.
TBR
 
#29 ·
As an aside, I have two rifles on which I installed iron sights, a sporter Anschutz 1427 and an ULA 20, and the addition of the banded front sight ramp actually served to "tune" the barrels. I thought it was a fluke when the Anschutz, on which I had just installed a new Lilja, shot markedly better with the ramp pressed on, but there is no doubt about the tuning effect. I experimented with slight position options and found the sweetest spot for the lots of ammunition I have before finally permanently installing the ramps. Both barrels were relatively thin, making the tuning effect greater, I believe. Just food for thought.
TBR
I found the same thing on an Andschutz 1710 DKL that I used in club matches. It was/is an exceptionally accurate gun....until I decided to remove the front sight and hood. I eventually had to reinstall it to get back to the previous accuracy level. I attributed it barrel harmonics.

Gerald, I've owned two each of the Winchester and Browning 52s, but alas, they fell victim to a recent downsizing mode I've gotten into. Seeing your gun makes me wish I had kept the one I sold most recently....a Browning....and had some sights installed. Looks classy. :bthumb:
 
#27 ·
The 52B sporter ramps were all integral, so the closest you could get would be using the ramps used on the very last 52C sporters, which, depending on who you talk to, would be same era ramps from the late pre64 M70s. Of these, there were ramps with more and less striations, but I could never get the real Winchester experts to agree on which ones were used for the latest 52 sporters; could be both. You will not find the slighter taller 52 hood, but the very similar M70 hoods are readily available.
TBR
 
#31 ·
Doug, it may or may not make a bit of difference on your gun...a case by case thing. you'll know after you shoot it awhile without the sights. I too thought it would make the gun look cleaner and get the front sight out of the way. But I decided accuracy was more important than looks for what I was using it for. :D

In the "for what it's worth department", I may not have noticed the difference had it not been for the fact that I was shooting it in factory class USBR matches at the time. The resulting scores told me that something wasn't quiet what it had been. Putting things back like they were put the scores back where they had been.

In your case, removing the sights may harm your accuracy, not affect it, or even may improve it.......
 
#32 ·
I purchased a 52 R at a gun show maybe 10 years ago with iron sights. The guy selling it was selling it for a friend and said it come with sights from the factory. The friend who had the gun said his wife threw the box away, boy, was he pissed. He said only 39 (I think this is the number) left the factory with sights. I can not verify this with no box. Still a cool gun with sights. Mine has a Lyman 57 (I think) and ramp and sight, more square bead (partridge?). Whether it is factory or not, I don't care, as I like it the way it is. Hard to mount a scope without getting too high on these guns.
 
#35 ·
That was mine

I haven't been on RFC for ages having sold off most of my collection about 7 or 8 years ago as my daughters got to be college age and I needed the dough. Started lurking again just a few weeks ago though mostly in the Martini and CZ sections and occasionally here in the Winchester 52 section since one of the 22s I held onto is a sporterized 52B. I chose to keep that one and sold my two repros. One was a 52C type. And I'm 99.9% certain the other is now yours. I added the Lyman 57 and a gunsmith who used to be on Rt309 near Quakertown, PA installed the front ramp (he may have drilled the receiver for the Lyman rear but I don't think so, I think the holes were there from the factory). Anyway the reason I'm fairly certain it's the one is the front ramp. I was a little disappointed initially because I thought it was a bit long compared to the originals and I wanted it to match but got over it as it was a terrific gun. Still, when push came to shove I kept the original 52B and sold the repros. And again I'm 99+% certain this is the B type I had because of that front ramp. I'm going to try and dig through some old pictures and even old emails to see if I have anything to confirm it. I may have something with the serial number on it. And there may even be an old post of mine here on RFC about this very gun and maybe a picture though I don't know that the pictures would still be up after all these years. Very glad it found a good home. Feeling a little pang of regret seeing it as well but I had to do what I had to do. Enjoy it - Bert
 
#38 ·
In response to Recoil Bob's post #36, The original factory C sporters with no sights are a little bit of a misnomer. They all came with a slotted front ramp sight with no Lyman 48-F rear sight. The early ones came with the B style integrally milled front ramp with a stippled top ramp to reduce glare. The ramps were slotted and a slot blank (as opposed to the Refield full gold bead) was used to give it a cleaner look. Later, the front ramp was changed to a shorter sweated on front ramp with straitions (the number of which appears to vary depending on when it was produced) running long ways and the same slotted blank. I do not have an original factory slot blank to give you a photo, but I am sure John or Steve have them.

Regardless of the original variations, I find it funny that the reproductions were not factory drilled and tapped with factory installed front sights. They probably figured that very few would actually used them and since no rear sight was provided it was a waste of money to do a front sight at the factory. I believe this was a mistake on the part of the designers and factory in paying proper homage to the venerable C sporter. After all, you could always take it off if you wanted to.
 
#40 ·
In response to Recoil Bob's post #36, The original factory C sporters with no sights are a little bit of a misnomer. They all came with a slotted front ramp sight with no Lyman 48-F rear sight. The early ones came with the B style integrally milled front ramp with a stippled top ramp to reduce glare. The ramps were slotted and a slot blank (as opposed to the Refield full gold bead) was used to give it a cleaner look. Later, the front ramp was changed to a shorter sweated on front ramp with straitions (the number of which appears to vary depending on when it was produced) running long ways and the same slotted blank. I do not have an original factory slot blank to give you a photo, but I am sure John or Steve have them.

Regardless of the original variations, I find it funny that the reproductions were not factory drilled and tapped with factory installed front sights. They probably figured that very few would actually used them and since no rear sight was provided it was a waste of money to do a front sight at the factory. I believe this was a mistake on the part of the designers and factory in paying proper homage to the venerable C sporter. After all, you could always take it off if you wanted to.
Vert is absolutely spot on in his description of the front sight ramp variations. Although I am not completely certain about this, when I did my 52C target rifle-to 52C sporter modifications, I used a sweated-on front sight ramp from a pre-64 M70. It was really the only option, since I was using a Lilja barrel. Apparently, the number of striations varied with the M70 ramps as well, there being two options, so everyone assumes Winchester used the same M70 ramps for the last 52C sporters. The 52 Sporting front sight hoods, however, are slightly taller than the M70 hoods, so I ended up using one of those as well...I wish anyone looking for an original 52 Sporting hood the very best of luck :D:


I also don't understand Browning's thinking on the 52 repros. They went to the trouble of having Miroku drill, tap, and plug the holes in the receiver for the receiver sight, just like the originals, then they left the barrel slick. Perhaps drilling the holes was so much cheaper and closer to the original, but the cost of adding front sight ramp, bead, and hood was deemed not worth the effort. Granted, the receiver just would not look right without the receiver sight holes, but neither does the barrel look right without a front sight...go figure :confused:

TBR
 
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