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  #1  
Old 08-01-2008, 09:46 PM
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Legion Sobol in Premire Oxide



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Also see:
My 2nd Legion Sobol in Premire Oxide
Moderator Working O/T ... 2nd Legion Sobol Has Arrived
I have decided to begin a separate thread for my Legion Sobol
with the Premire Oxide finish to consolidate images and commentary.











Matte Finish Legion vs Glossy Legion
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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 11-11-2008 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Restore Original Title
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Old 08-01-2008, 09:49 PM
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More Legion Sobol Photos

Legion Sable from TGI via Altius

More photos of my Legion Sobol - Premier Oxide Finish













Render (Some) Judgment:

I love my Legion Sobol - Premier Oxide and all.

Over-all, there is a lot to like about the matte finish.
For one, I'm not fearful of marring or blemishing the stock or metal finish.

My Sobol is not a rifle it is a carbine.
It seems to have the right proportions for a smaller adult.
However, it feels heavier than it looks - a dense package.
Even though it weights just 7 lbs.
As such, a boy or girl may not feel comfortable carrying it.

Petite, like a Browning .22 Auto,
is not a word I would use to describe the Sobol.
This .22 feels robust, purposeful and hand-filling.
A no-nonsense firearm with old-world, good-looks.

The action is glass-bedded. And, the barrel is free-floated.
The muzzle has a concave, target crown typical of Biathlon rifles.

The front sight is a wide post threaded for elevation.
And, situated behind a thinner blade - odd.
It reminds me of a mini AR-15 front sight post.
Windage is by drift adjustment.

The rear sight is clunky and angular.
And, quick range changes are by a cammed lever on the left side.
The range markings are for 25 and 75 meters.

The stock wood is well-figured and oil finished to a dull, lusterless satin.
As are the fore-end tip, pistol grip cap, butt plate
and magazine storage cover - equally, well-figured wood.
The Schnabel fore-end tip looks right.
The shadow cheekpiece is well proportioned.
However, the diamond checkering on the forearm and pistol grip
do not rise to a point.
The tips are squared-off.

What I don't like:
Trigger - non-adjustable (says so in instruction manual)
Trigger Pull - long first stage travel before second stage sets
Sights - windage adjustment is by drifting front sight with a single index mark
Front Sight - post is broad and square almost like a pistol sight.
Trigger Guard & Floor Plate - made of a plastic material
Rear Sight - cannot be removed for peep sight installation,
... to remove rear sight would require machining
... rear sight mounting block is also recoil lug
... and threaded receptacle for the stock mounting screw
Bolt Linkage - chrome plated, the bright chrome is out-of-place with a matte finish
Checkering - diamond checkering tips do not rise to sharp point,
... they are squared-off.
High Price - it is too expensive ... However, I wouldn't hesitate to pay $600
The instruction manual includes a test target.
I will try to post the target as soon as I get a chance.
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W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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Old 08-01-2008, 09:55 PM
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More Legion Sobol Photos


The action bolts are pillar bedded and held captive.
The trigger guard is held in-place with one screw.
The front-end of the trigger guard inserts into a retaining slot.


The action is glass bedded.


The recoil lug is glass bedded.
The lug bolt is pillar bedded and held captive.




Removing the trigger guard reveals the rear action bedding bolt.


The trigger guard/floor plate is made of plastic.




The spare magazine storage cover in the closed position.


The magazine storage cover is wood.
The inside of the cover maybe epoxy coated.
Or, it metal with a wood veneer.
Either way, alot of work went into the cover.


The magazine storage cover latch.
The latch contacts a metal tab on the inside surface of the cover.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 03-28-2009 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Add Descriptive Text
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:00 PM
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Legion Sobol More Photos


The safety lever also locks the bolt in the closed position.
Notice, the bolt and linkage are chrome plated.
The chrome appears out-of-place on a matte finished rifle.




Once sighted-in, the rear sight is adjustable for specific ranges only.
Sight-in elevation adjustment is accomplished on the front sight.
Windage adjustment is on the front sight as well.




The rear sight is integral with the recoil lug.
The range elevation cam is foward of the recoil lug.
As such, to remove the rear sight to install a peep sight
will require some machining of the recoil lug.


Elevation adjustment is on the front sight - similar to an AR-15.


Windage is by drift adjustment.
There is a single reference mark for windage adjustment.
Note, the thin front sight blade ahead of the adjustable front sight post.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 08-03-2008 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Add Descriptive Text
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2008, 09:08 AM
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How much was this gun?
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:51 PM
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How Much Does It Cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsl View Post
How much was this gun?
This thread will give some insight on the price.
It may vary ... depending on the dealer.

Fancy stocked Sobol - Izhmash Custom Rifle by LEGION - GROUP BUY???

I purchased my Legion Sobol from:



Response From Altius
Quote:
Larsen will ship rifles to me next week so I should see them in 2-3 weeks.
No word from him yet on the potential availability of the other models you were interested in.
I'll keep you posted on that.

I can get you the Sobol (LEGION) for $850 if you are interested.

Marc

Marc Sheppard
Altius Handcrafted Firearms
P.O. Box 1028/125 Madison Avenue
West Yellowstone, MT 59758 USA
406-646-9222 TEL
406-646-9433 FAX
[email protected]
www.altiusguns.com
Expensive? ... Yes.
But, not exactly.
This carbine must be placed in context.
A Kimber Classic (no-longer listed) sells for approximately $750 to $800.
The Weatherby XXII is approximately $800.
A Cooper entry model goes for $1200.
(I may be a little off on the prices ... however, my estimates illustrate my point.)
The Legion is competitively priced, unique and more (much more) exclusive.

Moreover, what is the likelihood of ... ever ... encountering a Legion Sobol?
A very, very small chance - indeed.

Will it maintain its value or appreciate? Probably not.
Sad to say. But, such is the case with Russian firearms.

However, what the Legion represents ... is in the eye of the beholder.
To me, it is am outstanding example of what Russian firearms craftsman
are capable of producing in a rimfire rifle.

When is the last time you saw a .22 rimfire rifle
with a Mannlicher styled stock and Schnabel forend.
Not to mention, with a with a straight-pull bolt.
Not Likely.

I think, if a knowledgeable gun enthusiast were to view this rifle,
he or she would be surprised, interested and admiring - I believe.
I know ... I am.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 02-09-2014 at 12:49 AM. Reason: Additional Comments
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:47 PM
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Legion Sobol Factory Documentation

Acceptance Certificate & Signature



Factory Test Targets (Outlined with Magic Marker for Contrast)

1st - 8mm (~.315 in), 2nd - 11.5mm (~.453 in), 3rd - 12.2mm (~.480 in)

Slushing Certificate (Packing or Pickling Certificate)
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 08-03-2008 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Modify Text for Clarity
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:49 PM
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BI 7-3 & 7-4 Triggers

Source: Biathlon 7-3 and 7-4 Factory Service Manual




Figure 5 illustrates the trigger found on USA Biathlon Basic and Legion Sobol.


Source: Factory Sobol Hunting Carbine Manual
Quote:
The type of pull and weight of pull are adjusted at the Manufacturing plant
and there is no need in additional adjustment in the process of servicing.
Quote:
Trigger Pull, non-adjustable, N (kgf) within ... 4.9 - 9.8 N or .5 - 1.00 kgf
Approximately 1.1 lbf to 2.2 lbf (foot pounds)
-
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 08-04-2008 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Additional Text
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:42 PM
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That's gorgeous any way you look at it. Overpriced a bit? Maybe, but if you can afford it, I don't think that's a rifle you'll regret owning. Wow...I mean, Wow!

From what you said after the manual post, is this the same trigger group as the BB 7-2? If so, can't you adjust it the same way? Of course, if it's 1.1 lbs, it may not actually need adjustment.

Thanks for sharing,
RedImreallyjealousTornado
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:01 PM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
... However, what the Legion represents ... is in the eye of the beholder.
To me, it is am excellent example of what Russian firearms craftsman
are capable of producing in a rimfire rifle.

When is the last time you saw a .22 rimfire rifle
with a Mannlicher styled stock and Schnabel forend.
Did I mention, with a with a straight-pull bolt.
Not Hardly.

I think, if a knowledgeable gun enthusiast were to view my rifle,
he or she would be surprised, interested and admiring - I believe.
I know ... I am.
On all these points, I could not agree with you more!!! I find the Legion Sobol to be absolutely breathtaking.... and these photos you've posted of your own, create nothing less than a tremendous longing and yearning within me.

Alas, it is only the .22WMR version of the Sobol that I would pay this type of price for... and it is my understanding that there is absolutely no plans or intent for the .22WMR Sobol to be imported. THAT has me more despondent than words can appropriately convey....
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:50 PM
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.22lr vs 22. WMR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garys4598 View Post
Alas, it is only the .22WMR version of the Sobol that I would pay this type of price for... and it is my understanding that there is absolutely no plans or intent for the .22WMR Sobol to be imported....
The Tennesse Guns International website is re-listing the Legion series of rifles.

And, a .22 WMR is shown.

But, if I remember correctly, TGI had considered importing the magnum .22.
However, it did not happen - depended on demand.
You might want to call TGI to be certain.

Anyway, all considered, I'm thinking ... you might be
almost as happy with the .22lr.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 08-04-2008 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Additional Text
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:46 AM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
Anyway, all considered, I'm thinking ... you might be
almost as happy with the .22lr.
aom22 -- I appreciate the sentiment... but no, I truly do not believe I would be "almost" as happy with the Sobol in .22LR.

My personal perceptions of the Legion Sobol-series of rifles is that they are designed and artstically crafted to be exemplary hunting rifles (as you stated yourself much earlier). As such, the .22LR is markedly underpowered in comparison to a .22WMR (just my personal opinion and preference mind you; I know others would argue this point); for small varmint firearms, I personally believe the .22WMR is the absolute smallest caliber anyone should use, period.

So... having conveyed the aforementioned; where I "draw the line in the sand" regarding smallest caliber firearms for hunting, nothing less than a .22WMR would be acceptable to me... and the Sobol-series of rifles are without question superlative hunting firearms.
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:10 PM
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Response from TGI

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
And, a .22 WMR is shown .... You might want to call TGI to be certain.
This was the question I asked Tennesse Guns International.
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------

Is the Legion Sobol available in .22WMR?

------------------------------------------------------
The response from [email protected]:

Quote:
It is made but we only imported the .22lr. Thanks,

Ryan Patrick
Sales Manager
TG International
865-977-9119 x25
865-977-9728 fax
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:03 PM
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Open Sights ... Legion Sobol


(Photo of the sights of my 2nd Legion Sobol
The sights are exactly the same on both rifles.)


Above and Below: Open Sights.
I really dislike open sights - peep or aperture sights are my preference.
However, I think I can live with these sights.
I may, at a later date, install a peep sight on the receiver grooves.
If I can find something that will work.


(Photo of the sight picture is of my 2nd Legion Sobol
The sight picture is exactly the same on both rifles.)




The rear sight is regulated to 25 and 75 meters.



Typical Biathlon countersunk muzzle.
Notice the tandem front sights - fixed forward blade & adjustable aft post.
__________________
W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best;
you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735

Last edited by aom22; 11-11-2008 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Modify Text for Clarity
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:39 AM
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I really wish I had never ever ever opened this thread
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