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  #16  
Old 06-03-2021, 04:15 PM
jerryg22
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2021, 04:34 PM
aslap

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Vicfox

Vic,

I enjoy putzing around with the program. As long as you know the POA, you can compile any number of shots from anyplace. Different targets; different days; different ammo - makes no difference.

Tony
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  #18  
Old 06-06-2021, 10:09 AM
52DH&R12

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A term coined by Bill Calfee

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipf View Post
What is meant by a "stopped muzzle"/
A term coined by Bill Calfee, world class rimfire gun schnmidt ( his spelling of smith ) almost 30years ago. You can click on the link below and read all about it.

Bill uses MD ( muzzle device ) instead of tuner.

http://www.wwaccuracy.com/showthread.php?t=6211
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2021, 11:08 AM
phillipf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
A term coined by Bill Calfee, world class rimfire gun schnmidt ( his spelling of smith ) almost 30years ago. You can click on the link below and read all about it.

Bill uses MD ( muzzle device ) instead of tuner.

http://www.wwaccuracy.com/showthread.php?t=6211
Thanks for the reply,

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  #20  
Old 06-06-2021, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
A term coined by Bill Calfee, world class rimfire gun schnmidt ( his spelling of smith ) almost 30years ago.
For what it's worth, he spells it schmidt. There's no "n".
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  #21  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:41 AM
52DH&R12

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penage Guy View Post
For what it's worth, he spells it schmidt. There's no "n".
Maybe so, but I copied and pasted it from his site. Maybe he fat fingered it. ( more than once ) Thought it was an odd spelling too.
http://www.wwaccuracy.com/showthread.php?t=6553
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  #22  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H. View Post
You guys crack me up! A target is a target is a target. If you are striving for perfection than a simple "dot" on a piece of paper can be a target and scored as such. Bullet hits "dot" viola...a 1 or a 10, or 100 or 1000. Whatever scoring multiplier you want to use. Of course best or worse ring scoring can come into play, but it doesn't mean much when everyone is shooting the same target AND scoring it the same. Why not come up with a target that hitting the bull gives you say 10,000 points, imagine what the final score would be? I have a garage filled with different targets, ARA, URSA, PSL, BR-50, NRA Pistol, NRA Rifle, CMP Sporter, MSA, PVC and on and on. It really doesn't matter what target you use. What matters is do you shoot for group size, in which case actual location doesn't matter much, or do you shoot one shot to hit center. I shoot both ways. Group size tells me how the gun and ammunition perform and one shot to center/X tells me how I am performing.

When shooting becomes work we have lost the fun factor and that is indeed sad. So many guys want to take the fun factor out of shooting and turn it into a job. Arguing over which target is better or easier makes no sense to me at all. And now we even have computers to tell us how well we have done. Complete madness when you think of it. If the computers break down we are all in trouble and will have to pack up our stuff and go home.

Rick H.
Rick, target shooting is work, brain/muscle involves work. that's why a fraction of a % are truly target shooters vs shooting at a target. by the way backers makes the difference. fwitw I could care less about these puter analysis otherwise the smallest groups from eley and lapua would win everything. nothing beat hard work when no one else is there. just the way it is. marty
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  #23  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:09 PM
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To those that disagree with me that's fine and I appreciate your input. I would probably be in your camp if I was a fulltime professional shooter getting paid by one of the companies making rifles, ammunition or gear for benchrest shooting. Naturally I would want to work really hard at my job if for no other reason than to promote my employers product AND earn my keep.

In my first life shooting was part and parcel of my job and I took it seriously and tried to do my best with it, but it was always fun for me. I could never understand how some people that came into law enforcement looked at shooting as a ugly necessity in their training and went into mental overload when they had to qualify. In fact that was one of the reasons I became an instructor (pistol, rifle and shotgun) to hopefully make shooting more enjoyable for those that hated it. I think I was pretty good at what I did and stayed a recruit firearms instructor for almost 15 years. Make no mistake, taking a new person into the realm of shooting, when they have never shot a firearm before is no easy task, but I tried to make it an enjoyable experience. Unfortunately not everyone is destined to be a capable shooter and they were cut from the herd. I know for a fact many of the people I trained continued to better themselves in their shooting lives and that was a good thing.

Today I shoot for one reason and one reason only, I enjoy it. If it ever becomes a job for me I will give it up in a heartbeat. I had a job for over 30 years and I don't need or want another one. Going to the range for me is like going to a golf course for others. My golf course is the range. When shooting becomes work for me I will take up golf. Even after all the years I have spent shooting I never leave the range angry or upset if I do poorly. I try to evaluate my results and formulate a plan to do better. Anger and disappointment only lead to frustration which bring on failure. I always work to do better, but it can't become a job in the true sense because the fun would be gone.

Rick H.
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  #24  
Old 06-11-2021, 02:07 PM
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Rick as I said my goal is to get 250 25 on the USBR target and I work hard at it.....but I don't see it as work. At the end of my shooting day I chat with friends about lots of things including shooting and go home happy and content. If I Looked at shooting as work I would not do it, I am a averse to work and since I am retired I am not going to volunteer to work
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2021, 12:33 AM
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Rick, being really, really good at anything requires work, fun is the after affects of the work. what you described is work. being there at the range when no one else is work. not 1 thing in this life comes easy, unless your born with that silver spoon. that's just the way things are, always have been always will be...keep chopping wood. marty

by the way these targets haven't changed since the 90's like nothing else has changed in the past 30 years.
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  #26  
Old 06-12-2021, 01:23 AM
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rick, if you just want to have fun buy yourself a brick of scribs, every now and then light one and throw it down range. imop shooting at a target vs. target shooting is just about there from what I see lately. ps; save some money on ammo, firecrackers are cheaper... marty
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  #27  
Old 06-13-2021, 12:36 AM
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cdiver 2, wouldn't matter if the usbr was on coated 80lb cover stock it's a good target and today should be the gold standard. why for 30 years since the day from mfgr. actions/barrels hasn't ara or ir/50 changed? ray and I used to sit up on the front porch as some just bang away, every now and then someone would bring a target up, well do it every day. easy is easy. when Alex was shooting he would place a thumb tack on his garage, now his shop, stand at his patio for hours training his muscles to keep sights on that freaking thumb tack, todays targets have not kept up as barrels/actions have changed. there is not 1 thing in life that isn't improved by hard work and by the way it's always about competing against the person you see in the mirror. just the way it is. life is not about match play. marty
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  #28  
Old 07-17-2021, 08:41 AM
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A second nice USBR target

From the same fellow - cdiver2. He told me that this target was because "even a blind squirrel finds some nuts now and then". My comment was that either the line about the squirrel being blind was a lie or he lucked into the biggest nuts on planet Earth!!
Another 248 11X

OnTarget 25 shot composite. Not as tight as the 25 from the first target but still good.

This I found interesting and is why I think having something like OnTarget around is a good idea and could lead to understanding why certain things happen. After putting this last target together, I was struck by the groups that David shot on row one of each target. Here are those ten shots.

Centered about as perfectly as you can get and a really nice group.

Then something about his row 5 results caught my eye. Here are those 10 shots from the 2 row 5's.


Almost pure vertical. Had you seen this as a single group you might have been inclined to think that the rifle needed tuning work. But that couldn't be the case since everything else points to a well-tuned rifle. Nope. Just like I believe the crazy goodness of the first two rows on each target is no coincidence, I believe something goes on here that happens when David gets to row 5. If, on both of these row 5's and not knowing why it was happening but only that it was, he had used the bottom of the 10 ring as the POA, he would have shot 249 on both targets.

Now, if I knew what that something was I could blackmail David into not sending me these kinds of targets ever again so I could get back to a healthy life without envy. Maybe he gets tired on that last row. Maybe at the range the weather changes. But looking at the targets points this kind of thing out and at least gives you the question to which you can begin to search for the answer.

Tony
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  #29  
Old 07-17-2021, 11:06 AM
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Re your comments about the first row...

I noticed something similar on my targets during our club matches. It all started when I hung a target for warmups for a match....shooting the same sequence I do in competition...a serpentine route from top left to bottom right. After shooting the warmup target I didn't take the original target down, i just placed the match target directly over the warmup target. Later in looking at the two targets, I was struck by the fact the the first two vertical rows of both targets had shots going through pretty much the same hole, but as I went further to the right, the two shots combined for the two targets showed more displacement from each other.

Thinking this was probably just and anomaly, started paying attention, and nope, the pattern repeated itself pretty frequently. Clearly something was going on, but I never entirely satisfied myself about exactly what it was. Maybe something in the rest setup...
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  #30  
Old 07-17-2021, 01:16 PM
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Could be the rest

Pump,

A couple of years back I set my front rest and my rear rest on a nice, level bench and got them aligned like I did at the range. I put slips of paper in between the stock and sides of the rear rest on both sides of the stock.

I used my highly calibrated (?) Wheeler spring trigger scale to pull the pieces of paper out of the stock/rest junction as I moved the windage on the front rest from side to side.

I actually wasn't expecting to see much but darned if there wasnít a consistent, measurable difference on the effort it took as the windage was cranked from side to side. I canít remember exactly now but when everything was aligned, the pull weight of the paper was pretty well equal on both sides. As the windage was cranked, the paper on the side opposite the direction of the crank took more pull to get the paper out. I want to say that straight on it was something like 12 ounces to pull the slips and that rose to over a pound on the side opposite the crank. Might not be exact here but it was a repeatable thing.

One could imagine that moving the elevation would have also changed the pressure on the butt of the rifle. And if the bench is tipped and the leveling of the whole rig isnít quite right who knows how the changing butt stock pressure would affect POI. Especially since we all know that wearing a different pair of pants will change the POI of a 22 rimfire round.

Tony
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