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  #31  
Old 04-09-2020, 06:59 PM
vlnbyr

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AGAIN I am going to say....Rimfire benchrest of ALL SPORTS has the widest spread between how easy it appears and how difficult it is. From the outside it looks like it is a pure equipment race but once inside you find out it is all about the shooter. ARA... where those who think they can shoot find out they can't. Yes I'm stirring the pot.
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2020, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by David Valdina View Post
Reading this thread and the part about flags just below to bullet path made me think of a set of diamond wind flag frames set between the shooter and the target and a wind indicator at each corner of the diamond so that wind from every direction, including updrafts and downdrafts can be noted. My use of wind flags was years ago when I shot IR 50/50. Today, confined to house and yard, my range is 33 feet for air gun shooting. I guess I will skip the wind flags.
A really good lesson in wind is air rifle at 50 yards. Brothers and I used to prepare for NMLRA Nationals shooting our air rifles off x-sticks on the equivalent of the A-23/5 target. Quarter a shot. A round ball behaves about the same as a pellet.

Last edited by W8LON; 04-09-2020 at 07:46 PM.
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2020, 08:05 PM
doclu60
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Well John, I don't know why you felt like stirring pot, but I can comment on the equipment race. My first year was okay, then I started upgrading equipment. My results after that still landed on me and how much I worked at the game. As many times as we have shot together, you know my equipment is solid.

Point here for the OP is this, and perhaps why John stirred that pot, hard work and dedication to the discipline is what works. Hard work testing, not just ammo, but your entire system. Your rifle, your rest, your tune if using a tuner. Learning the proper way to read conditions and having the equipment to do it. Shooting different venues to support your condition reading. On that, only one person shot more clubs in the 2019 outdoor season than I did in ARA, and that was John.

I worked hard and John worked hard and he beat me in national ranking by 18 places. Why? He worked smarter than me. He had more experience. He also shared why to me. This year is different with the virus thing, but we are more even now because of his willingness to share information. Lot of good people in RFBR.

Shooting bench with .22's is not easy if you want really good results. The challenge of it is what drives most shooters that are serious about it.

To the OP, why are you shooting at 100? What is your goal by shooting bench? Do you plan on competing? If so, in what discipline? Have you thought about shooting at 50, a more common distance for RFBR? No inference on my part from not wanting to support you, just questions I thought of from John's 'pot stirring'. It got me thinking.

This has been a cool thread. I hope it continues.
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  #34  
Old 04-10-2020, 11:31 AM
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Well John, I don't know why you felt like stirring pot, but I can comment on the equipment race. My first year was okay, then I started upgrading equipment. My results after that still landed on me and how much I worked at the game. As many times as we have shot together, you know my equipment is solid.

Point here for the OP is this, and perhaps why John stirred that pot, hard work and dedication to the discipline is what works. Hard work testing, not just ammo, but your entire system. Your rifle, your rest, your tune if using a tuner. Learning the proper way to read conditions and having the equipment to do it. Shooting different venues to support your condition reading. On that, only one person shot more clubs in the 2019 outdoor season than I did in ARA, and that was John.

I worked hard and John worked hard and he beat me in national ranking by 18 places. Why? He worked smarter than me. He had more experience. He also shared why to me. This year is different with the virus thing, but we are more even now because of his willingness to share information. Lot of good people in RFBR.

Shooting bench with .22's is not easy if you want really good results. The challenge of it is what drives most shooters that are serious about it.

To the OP, why are you shooting at 100? What is your goal by shooting bench? Do you plan on competing? If so, in what discipline? Have you thought about shooting at 50, a more common distance for RFBR? No inference on my part from not wanting to support you, just questions I thought of from John's 'pot stirring'. It got me thinking.

This has been a cool thread. I hope it continues.
Pot stirring is okay but hope I’ve never giving the impression that BR is easy and hard work isn’t the key to success. Consider myself a novice BR shooter at best and apologize if I’ve come across as anything different.

Doc, you pose good questions. Started using a bench to ammo test after I fell in with a bad crowd (RCF) and rediscovered the joys of old .22lr target rifles. The 1411 from my NRA Junior days was stored 45 years waiting for a time like this.

The 100 yd question is a excellent one that I have been wrestling with. Basically it’s a function of backstop and associated terrain. Definitely the wrong distance for .22 BR shooting though the old rifles I’m using were used to great effect at that distance in prone matches.

I’d LOVE to compete at 50 yd club level though local .22 BR matches are rare in this area. Have my eye on a spot where if I cut some scrub pine and truck in dirt for a backstop, I can build a safe 50 yd range. As I ponder a proper bench, the 50 vs 100 yd question is foremost.

There’s definitely a mismatch between the distance I’m shooting and where I’d like to go down the road. Very good question and no offense taken as I’m shooting the wrong distance for .22 RFBR.

Not sure what the future holds but in the meantime, figure the basics I learn at 100 will be transferable to 50 yds.

Piney hill is a 3 hour drive and though it would be fun to shoot there and meet some folks, ARA is way above my skill level and I’m smart enough to realize it.
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  #35  
Old 04-10-2020, 12:43 PM
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Pot stirring is okay but hope Iíve never giving the impression that BR is easy and hard work isnít the key to success. Consider myself a novice BR shooter at best and apologize if Iíve come across as anything different.

Doc, you pose good questions. Started using a bench to ammo test after I fell in with a bad crowd (RCF) and rediscovered the joys of old .22lr target rifles. The 1411 from my NRA Junior days was stored 45 years waiting for a time like this.

The 100 yd question is a excellent one that I have been wrestling with. Basically itís a function of backstop and associated terrain. Definitely the wrong distance for .22 BR shooting though the old rifles Iím using were used to great effect at that distance in prone matches.

Iíd LOVE to compete at 50 yd club level though local .22 BR matches are rare in this area. Have my eye on a spot where if I cut some scrub pine and truck in dirt for a backstop, I can build a safe 50 yd range. As I ponder a proper bench, the 50 vs 100 yd question is foremost.

Thereís definitely a mismatch between the distance Iím shooting and where Iíd like to go down the road. Very good question and no offense taken as Iím shooting the wrong distance for .22 RFBR.

Not sure what the future holds but in the meantime, figure the basics I learn at 100 will be transferable to 50 yds.

Piney hill is a 3 hour drive and though it would be fun to shoot there and meet some folks, ARA is way above my skill level and Iím smart enough to realize it.
Cattleman,

The only thing I see about shooting at 100yds. is finding ammo that will give respectable results. much easier to find lots that do well to really good at 50yds.

I shoot 100yd. RFBR and found ammo is key for getting good results. what I learned at 50yd. BR will and does apply to 100yd. the reversal would be the same, with the added dimension of the ammo's performance will need to be factored in for 100yd.

We shoot 5 bulls with a 7-minute time limit. 1-shot each bull for max score of 50
one format we aren't allowed flags, I have only shot 1-target that scored 50-1x in nearly 2-years. the 10-ring is less in size then the ARA 100, but it is fun to try!

Hope you can work out something so you can start to shoot 50yds. as that will help in finding ammo and with the learning process too

Lee
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  #36  
Old 04-10-2020, 01:01 PM
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What makes ARA hard is the nature of the beast. It's 25 record shots on 25 bulls spread over the target. I have heard thousands of times shooters say they just hammered a group on the sighters and then over to a shot that counts and bingo a miss for a 50. Even done it myself a time or two. That and the worst edge scoring will give you fits. That and the guys that have it figured out and are shooting big targets easy peasy while you struggle.
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  #37  
Old 04-10-2020, 06:29 PM
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Hey guys, glad the thread is still chugging along!

Cattleman, don't worry about my comment to John about stirring the pot. John and I know each other pretty well! He has helped me in off forum conversations many times and I consider him a good friend. My comment was just some witty banter!

I am somewhat surprised Virginia has few opportunities for RFBR. It does not necessarily have to be sanctioned. I would think there would be clubs that may have matches you could shoot, even if they are not ARA or IR50/50, that may be close to you. As far as shooting ARA, don't look at it as being above your skill level. You are shooting the same rest I shot in my first year, you are getting good advise from several shooters here, that actually shoot organised RFBR, and you show a desire for more knowledge about the game. If you do shoot ARA, look at it as shooting against yourself and meeting new guys that will help you. I learned a lot more by going out and shooting matches than I ever did on a forum. The learning curve shortens when shooting matches with guys that do it.

As far as being sanctioned, Lee shoots a lot of matches that are not sanctioned, but after following him and communicating with him off forum, I can tell you for sure he is very qualified at the game to give good advise. He and myself have been trying to get together to shoot a match for several years. Schedules and distance have always prevailed over actually meeting each other. Point is, do a little investigation and see if you can find some kind of organised shooting in your area that is RFBR. We all started somewhere. BTW: you never came off as anything other than what you have stated. This board gets a wide variety of people posting. If you had, shooters that do know something about your questions would have stopped posting. As I mentioned before, this is a good thread. Good participation by people that support the game.

So John, in closing, "even done it myself a time or two". Hum?

Stay safe guys.
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  #38  
Old 04-10-2020, 08:14 PM
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Cattleman,
You have gotten a wealth of advice already from John, Scott, and Lee.
The only thing that I would suggest is that when trying to learn to shoot in the wind is to keep your distance to 50 yards and use 4 good flags. In the beginning I believe that more than 4 will confuse most folks.
At 100 too many conditions can happen between your flags that you won't see, (especially at your range) and you will have a difficult time trying to figure out why the shot didn't go where the flags said it should have.
The wind between the flags makes it difficult to learn because you can't react to what you don't see. It will happen at 50 also, but the distance between flags is less, so your results will be better and you will learn faster.
Hope this helps if even a little.
Glen H
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  #39  
Old 04-11-2020, 06:25 AM
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Cattlemam30 you should try shooting for score. It forces you to concentrate on technique so much it will transfer over to your group shooting. Most score shooter's will shoot several groups on sighter's to check conditions during a match. Most of the groups will near one hole and in a hurried pace. I think it will really help you group shooting.
Todd
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  #40  
Old 04-11-2020, 08:37 AM
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Cattleman,
You have gotten a wealth of advice already from John, Scott, and Lee.
The only thing that I would suggest is that when trying to learn to shoot in the wind is to keep your distance to 50 yards and use 4 good flags. In the beginning I believe that more than 4 will confuse most folks.
At 100 too many conditions can happen between your flags that you won't see, (especially at your range) and you will have a difficult time trying to figure out why the shot didn't go where the flags said it should have.
The wind between the flags makes it difficult to learn because you can't react to what you don't see. It will happen at 50 also, but the distance between flags is less, so your results will be better and you will learn faster.
Hope this helps if even a little.
Glen H
Glen,
Please let me hitchhike on what you have said. One of the primary differences between shooting .22s at 50 yards vs 100 yds is at 50 yards normally, but not always, you can primarily rely on your wind flags for your point of aim. At 100 yds there is so much going on you normally have to rely on your sighters for your point of aim. Understanding when to switch can only be learned after much practice maybe even more than a life time of practice.
TKH
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  #41  
Old 04-11-2020, 10:51 AM
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Thanks guys. You’re a great bunch of riflemen.
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  #42  
Old 04-13-2020, 06:44 AM
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While I have shot long range centerfire BR for quite a number of years, a couple of years ago I decided to change my game and shoot almost strictly 100 yard rimfire BR..My personal goal was a .00X 5-shot group at that distance. Took me awhile and a lot of "close" to get there, but it was "do-able" if that's even a word....

Since I was proud of what I'd done, I made the decision to swtich to ARA at 50...Heck, only half the distance, and through that NF scope, looked like an easy target to score well on....Yeah, I shoulda stuck with 100 yard. Not so easy.

I spare no expense on equipment, I lot test till I'm blue in the face but I'm still learning, I'm still practicing, but in the end...man, ARA ain't easy...not in the least.

Bob...

P.S. One more thing....ARA is a blast.
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  #43  
Old 04-13-2020, 09:23 AM
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I spare no expense on equipment, I lot test till I'm blue in the face but I'm still learning, I'm still practicing, but in the end...man, ARA ain't easy...not in the least.

Bob...

P.S. One more thing....ARA is a blast.
Bob,
Welcome to our world...
By the way, there are lots of very good shooters in Michigan. I try to get there once a year for Brent Lidgard's match in the fall. Hard to say what this year brings.

Glen H
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  #44  
Old 04-13-2020, 10:36 AM
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Found a better location on the property to shoot 50 yds. Dntechs post that precedes this is a great summary of my expected result in that the ARA target with it’s worse edge scoring is tough for mere mortals. See a lot of positives with going to 50 yds though.

Here’s a shot of the new 50 yd range location. Somewhat shielded from evil wind effects. The predominant wind direction will change from five - seven O’clock to two - four O’clock which may be helpful.
4A0DFEE8-338E-450D-9BE1-C69A998196E5_1586788341349.jpg

It will be quite a treat to have flat ground, proper flag setups, less crazy wind, refined 50 yd zero and shoot the right target. Can back a truck in here and drop a load of dirt for a backstop. The bench will take a little longer.

Biggest drawback I see is that afternoon targets will reside in a shadow and not fully sunlit. More so If I bias the berm to the left side. This is also a deer food plot area and I need keep the road open which is about 25’ wide.

It will be nice to be able to quantify results with the ARA target and when it comes time for a tuner, it will be at the right yardage.

Thanks guys. For all the RFC enablers that contributed to this thread, please paint a 50 yd range symbol on your conning tower. (Another mission well done). 😀

Last edited by Cattleman30; 04-13-2020 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Spelling
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  #45  
Old 04-13-2020, 10:54 AM
doclu60
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Good for you Cattleman! This has been a great thread. Glad you started it!
Best of luck with new location.
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