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Old 12-14-2019, 03:59 PM
skip AI

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CCI VNT accuracy



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Hi,
Tested some new CCI VNT ammo this morning and groups were lucky to fit on an A4 sheet of paper at 50yrds.

Shot Hornady beside it and clover leaf groups.

What's everyone's experience with this ammo?

The worst ammo to date accuracy wise would print 1" groups at 50 but this stuff is off the scale bad.

Rifle is CZ 452 17hm2.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:06 PM
jaia
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Both the Hornady and CCI hm2 are produced on the same machines at the same factory.
Only differences are tip colors, head stamps and labeling. Variations in results on target
are due to production slop on the assembly line. Sometimes CCI gets it right, sometimes not.

Hornady provides all the bullets, CCI provides brass, primer, powder and assembly.

Last edited by jaia; 12-14-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:15 PM
squirrel1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Both the Hornady and CCI hm2 are produced on the same machines at the same factory.
Only differences are tip colors, head stamps and labeling. Variations in results on target
are due to production slop on the assembly line. Sometimes CCI gets it right, sometimes not.

Hornady provides all the bullets, CCI provides brass, primer, powder and assembly.
What you are saying I think is correct.
One problem though.
Gent above is not shooting vmax bullets.
What he is shooting is different and I think has a thinner jacket.

I do think there is a velocity difference between 17 grainers vmax comparing hornady and cci.
And this speed difference could make one group better than the other (barrel wise).
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:48 PM
jaia
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Same cartridges, different labels.
FPS rating differences on the two are such a small percentage in variation
that the number is essentially meaningless when compared to chronographed mv's.
All the 17 cal bullets are made by Hornady, ballistic tip, fmj and hp.
Actual mv depends on how well CCI is running the line that day.
Roll those cartridges on a flat surface and watch for tip wobble.
Compare seating depth and angle differences, it will explain much.
CCI still uses a punch plate and spreader to manually prime the brass.
Not the most consistent method of producing tight mv's.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:52 PM
squirrel1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Same cartridges, different labels.
FPS rating differences on the two are such a small percentage in variation
that the number is essentially meaningless when compared to chronographed mv's.
All the 17 cal bullets are made by Hornady, ballistic tip, fmj and hp.
Actual mv depends on how well CCI is running the line that day.
Roll those cartridges on a flat surface and watch for tip wobble.
Compare seating depth and angle differences, it will explain much.
CCI still uses a punch plate and spreader to manually prime the brass.
Not the most consistent method of producing tight mv's.
Is there a hornady VNT round?

90 FPS difference. Quite a lot. If this is average comparing rounds.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:59 PM
jaia
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Rated mv is 2100 fps for the Hornady, 24 inch barrel.
90 fps is less than 0.5 % difference.
You'll chrony a wider variation than that in the real world.
Caused by the CCI production process.

I don't see a hollow point hm2 on the Hornady site.
Only the ballistic tip.

Last edited by jaia; 12-14-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:14 PM
squirrel1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Rated mv is 2100 fps for the Hornady, 24 inch barrel.
90 fps is less than 0.5 % difference.
You'll chrony a wider variation than that in the real world.
Caused by the CCI production process.

I don't see a hollow point hm2 on the Hornady site.
Only the ballistic tip.
Better check your math.
I come up with some thing else. Far bigger percentage.

One percent of 2100 FPS or 2010 FPS is around 21 FPS.
So, 90 FPS would be nearer 5 percent difference.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:22 PM
skip AI

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Thanks for the replies.

The CCI is nickel plated cases and a SPEER VNT projectile.
The Hornady is standard brass with VMAX.

Thanks
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:29 PM
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Skip al I had same problem 2 to3 in group at fifty Hornady was a lot tighter group and everyone keeps saying they’re tha same obviously they’re not
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:31 PM
squirrel1
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Be impossible for them to be the same.
Only the cci rounds use the speer projectile.

Change projectile anything could happen. Could pattern worse or better than the vmax.
Reports thus far I won’t be buying any of the VNT stuff.
Got loads of cci vmax to eat up on squirrels anyway,
Some hornady.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:36 PM
skip AI

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I think the confusion is based on the old black tip CCI using the VMAX.

I've emailed my countries importer to see what they can do, maybe I got a bad batch. I've never seen any firearm/ammo combination group so badly in my life.

Open bolt automatic machine gun would beat it with ease...
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:40 PM
squirrel1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip AI View Post
I think the confusion is based on the old black tip CCI using the VMAX.

I've emailed my countries importer to see what they can do, maybe I got a bad batch. I've never seen any firearm/ammo combination group so badly in my life.

Open bolt automatic machine gun would beat it with ease...
Curious,
Did you clean your barrel real good before you tried the VNT stuff?
And how many total VNT rounds have you tried thus far at targets?
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:48 PM
jaia
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I blame my flu meds for the poor math, SQ1.
Normally I stay out of the hm2 forums.
Boredom and inactivity led me to stray.
Check the test barrel length for a possible explanation of mv rating.
NyQuil is kicking in so ya'll continue the conversation.
I'll read the followups in the morning.
Hopefully less medicated and more coherent.

Last edited by jaia; 12-15-2019 at 05:47 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-14-2019, 07:07 PM
skip AI

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Barrel was cleaned before using the CCI. Here is a target showing 9 shots of CCI on left and 6 Hornady on the right. I fired 3 and adjusted it down with the Hornady.

I fired 30 CCI all up and 2 rounds hit the orange dot out 30. Rest barely hit the paper. One that hit appeared to have key holed.

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Old 12-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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Currently there is 4 flavors

2100fps hornady 17grain
15.5 ntx hornady
2010fps cci
2010fpa cci vnt

For my green mountain barrel the hornady 17 is really good, with the cci being on the ragged edge of downright poor. Only found one box of vnt last time down south and non so far up north here, sample size is rather small. (25 rounds per barrel). It was better than the standard cci but not good. Don't have the full measurements offhand but was .75ish at 50 for the hornady, 1.75ish for the vnt, smidge over 2 for the cci. For my shooting that puts the hornady square in just fine. And the others close to not useful. Sorting the hornady could get groups down to the cloverleaf level but that's beyond my hunting needs.

For my magnum research the hornady was about the same, even sorting couldn't get true cloverleaf but this is a straight up hunting rig. All my rounds on an inch dot and I'm happy as a clam. This barrel put all the cci on a 2 inch dot but certainly not on the one.

Truthfully didn't have really high hopes for the vnt, between my 3 and my shooting buddies 3 17hmr barrels only an early marlin 17 microgrove barrel shoot a the vnt bullet well. Not sure why but the vnt bullet has underwhelmed me a lot. With that said, it may be a screamer in some, one box is always worth a try. Shooting buddy hated a 17, looked like he was patterning a shotgun out of his, I shyed away from it for a long time. Finally stuffed some in Volq and it screams and shoots really well.

Lot to lot variation, recipe to recipe variation will exist regardless of who maks it.
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