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  #1  
Old 08-02-2019, 04:57 PM
Dcarey51

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Hi Standard Magazine issues



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OK folks...this question includes two High Standard .22LR pistols.

One is a 1953 Duramatic M100.
I bought two Triple K 612M mags advertised by Triple K as being the correct mag for the Duramatics. Neither one will insert into the gun. They go in all but the last 3/4" and I don't want to jam them in.

The other is a 1966 Supermatic Trophy Model 106 Military.
Triple K website says Part 490M is the correct one, but NO WAY is it the same as the one in the gun. The Triple K 990M magazine is more like the one I need ( it has the floorplate extension the engages the mag release at the bottom front of the grip.

Can someone with more Hi Standard experience enlighten me?

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:10 PM
moonjohn
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Of the more modern High Standard pistols, there are two types:

The Slant Grip models.
The Military Grip models (after the Government 1911 45 cal. pistol).

The 490m Triple K magazines would be correct for your Duramatic which has a Slant type grip.
If they don't fit your pistol, remove the barrel and slide.
If the magazines still don't fit, you will see bright metal on the magazines where the magazines are binding in the frame.
Use marking fluid or a black marker to cover the bright metal and reinsert the magazine with some force which will show where the binding is occurring by showing more bright metal.
File away some of the metal at the point of binding and repeat the process again until the magazine inserts correctly.

Triple K generally makes good magazines that should fit correctly.
But, in the bending of the metal near the top of the magazine, sometimes things go wrong.
......
Regarding your model 106, it is a Military Grip pistol, and it would take a Triple K 990m magazine.

The Triple K website shows the 612m model magazine is correct for the Slant Grip pistols.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:35 PM
SGVictor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcarey51 View Post
OK folks...this question includes two High Standard .22LR pistols.

One is a 1953 Duramatic M100.
I bought two Triple K 612M mags advertised by Triple K as being the correct mag for the Duramatics. Neither one will insert into the gun. They go in all but the last 3/4" and I don't want to jam them in.

The other is a 1966 Supermatic Trophy Model 106 Military.
Triple K website says Part 490M is the correct one, but NO WAY is it the same as the one in the gun. The Triple K 990M magazine is more like the one I need ( it has the floorplate extension the engages the mag release at the bottom front of the grip.

Can someone with more Hi Standard experience enlighten me?

Thank you
You might want to depress the magazine release on the Dura-Matic while inserting the magazine ans see if that helps. Any lip style magazine for the slant grip models should fit if it had the pocket in the left side for the Dura-Matic magazine release.

The 106 series have been known to have some issues with aftermarket magazines based on how the machining of the top rear of the magazine well was machined and how the ejector was machined. Note the red plastic base magazines are more fragile than the steel base magazines.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:48 PM
Dcarey51

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THANK YOU for your answers!

Would you recommend stoning ( or Scotch Brite) the Duramatic magazines to see if they'll fit better? I've never dealt with anything but factory mags.

Thanks again!
Dan
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2019, 07:31 PM
Dcarey51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonjohn View Post
Of the more modern High Standard pistols, there are two types:

The Slant Grip models.
The Military Grip models (after the Government 1911 45 cal. pistol).

The 490m Triple K magazines would be correct for your Duramatic which has a Slant type grip.
If they don't fit your pistol, remove the barrel and slide.
If the magazines still don't fit, you will see bright metal on the magazines where the magazines are binding in the frame.
Use marking fluid or a black marker to cover the bright metal and reinsert the magazine with some force which will show where the binding is occurring by showing more bright metal.
File away some of the metal at the point of binding and repeat the process again until the magazine inserts correctly.

Triple K generally makes good magazines that should fit correctly.
But, in the bending of the metal near the top of the magazine, sometimes things go wrong.
......
Regarding your model 106, it is a Military Grip pistol, and it would take a Triple K 990m magazine.

The Triple K website shows the 612m model magazine is correct for the Slant Grip pistols.
So, is the 490M or the 612M (the one I'm having issues with) the correct mag for the Duramatic??

Thanks,
Dan
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2019, 06:31 AM
LDBennett
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To start with, the Dramatic is not at all the same design as the competition style Hi Std guns that earned a reputation as match winners. There is no reason to expect the magazines to be interchangeable but they may be (??) at least between slant grip guns.

Secondly, Triple K magazines are not the first choice of magazines for the 106 Military grip model. As stated before, the Military grip magazines are different from any of the slant grip magazines. A better choice of Hi Std magazines is from Alan Aronstein at InterarmsTX (interarmstx.com). He has been developing a Hi Std magazine for a couple decades and his latest version is the best NEW magazine for these guns. The big difference is he heat treats the magazine lips so that they retain their shape with use. Those lips are key to this particular gun design for ammo feeding, more so than any other 22 I can think of. There is a less than adequate feed ramp in these guns and the magazine has to make up for that lack of control of the feeding cartridge.

As an aside, if you compare a slant grip mag to a Military grip mag, you will see that the shell seems to be the same with the big difference in base plates. When the Military grip design was developed, the magazine well was made to be the same angle as the slant grip models in reference to the barrel centerline. The mag well goes diagonally across the Military grip frame. To allow that, the base plate had to be changed on the military grip mag.

To get the right good magazine for both guns contact Alan at Interarms. Triple K magazines for Hi Std's do not have a very good reputation for reliability.

LDBennett
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2019, 06:45 AM
wkd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBennett View Post
To start with, the Dramatic is not at all the same design as the competition style Hi Std guns that earned a reputation as match winners. There is no reason to expect the magazines to be interchangeable but they may be (??) at least between slant grip guns.

Secondly, Triple K magazines are not the first choice of magazines for the 106 Military grip model. As stated before, the Military grip magazines are different from any of the slant grip magazines. A better choice of Hi Std magazines is from Alan Aronstein at InterarmsTX (interarmstx.com). He has been developing a Hi Std magazine for a couple decades and his latest version is the best NEW magazine for these guns. The big difference is he heat treats the magazine lips so that they retain their shape with use. Those lips are key to this particular gun design for ammo feeding, more so than any other 22 I can think of. There is a less than adequate feed ramp in these guns and the magazine has to make up for that lack of control of the feeding cartridge.

As an aside, if you compare a slant grip mag to a Military grip mag, you will see that the shell seems to be the same with the big difference in base plates. When the Military grip design was developed, the magazine well was made to be the same angle as the slant grip models in reference to the barrel centerline. The mag well goes diagonally across the Military grip frame. To allow that, the base plate had to be changed on the military grip mag.

To get the right good magazine for both guns contact Alan at Interarms. Triple K magazines for Hi Std's do not have a very good reputation for reliability.

LDBennett
Excellent advice, I had nothing but trouble with Triple K.
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2019, 08:25 AM
SGVictor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBennett View Post
To start with, the Dramatic is not at all the same design as the competition style Hi Std guns that earned a reputation as match winners. There is no reason to expect the magazines to be interchangeable but they may be (??) at least between slant grip guns. The slant grip magazines for all slant grip pistols were the same after the introduction of the Dura-Matic. The Dura-Matic required that the left outer shell have a pocket for the magazine release. The magazine shells, inner and outer, were then same for all .22 LR pistols whether for the slant grip or military grip.

Secondly, Triple K magazines are not the first choice of magazines for the 106 Military grip model. As stated before, the Military grip magazines are different from any of the slant grip magazines. A better choice of Hi Std magazines is from Alan Aronstein at InterarmsTX (interarmstx.com). He has been developing a Hi Std magazine for a couple decades and his latest version is the best NEW magazine for these guns. The big difference is he heat treats the magazine lips so that they retain their shape with use. Those lips are key to this particular gun design for ammo feeding, more so than any other 22 I can think of. There is a less than adequate feed ramp in these guns and the magazine has to make up for that lack of control of the feeding cartridge. You keep saying that the feed ramp is less than adequate but this was the top pistol for competition for many years and that fact seems to me to be greatly at odds with your comment and my personal experience.

As an aside, if you compare a slant grip mag to a Military grip mag, you will see that the shell seems to be the same with the big difference in base plates. Actually the original military grip magazine was a slant grip magazine with the front of the base cut off and a plastic foot added. Later when the fragility of the plastic foot became an issue, they made a powdered metal foot that included both the original base plate and the foot. When the Military grip design was developed, the magazine well was made to be the same angle as the slant grip models in reference to the barrel centerline. Of course it did, it used the 104 series tooling to save money. The mag well goes diagonally across the Military grip frame. To allow that, the base plate had to be changed on the military grip mag.

To get the right good magazine for both guns contact Alan at Interarms. Triple K magazines for Hi Std's do not have a very good reputation for reliability.

LDBennett

The original question was about magazine fit problems with both of his guns and not about performance. The original poster has not gotten to the point where performance is the problem and if he gets that far then he may not have a problem.

Alan at Interarms uses the standard Triple K magazine and hardens the lips. Hardening the lips is not likely to solve the original poster's fit problem.

As I recall while Alan was at High Standard Houston there were warnings the their magazine did not fit the 106 series without modifications.

The Dura-Matic is likely a different issue. I suggested that the original poster try depressing the magazine release as he inserted the magazine. I have had no feedback so I don't know if he needs to go to the next step or not. The Dura-Matic had part of its magazine well in a detachable grip and a small part in the frame. Improperly installed, the grip and frame magazine wells can be slightly offset which might be the cause of the original poster's problem.


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Old 08-03-2019, 11:25 AM
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Magazine selection

Dcarey, I am guessing the magazines shown in the photos are the ones that came with the pistols. The one with the Dura-matic is a post-2005 Triple K made magazine, and the one with the Trophy is a post-2005 Houston High Standard magazine. The one you need for the Trophy is part no. 990M. You will probably have to remove some metal from the rear portion of the left rear feed lip to get it to fit the ejector in the pistol, as suggested by SGVictor.


Houston High Standard and InterarmsTX both obtain their magazine bodies from Triple K. Both heat treat the feed lips. The Houston magazines use original style green followers, and the InterarmsTX mags use red colored followers from the same supplier that Triple K uses. Comparison of the feed lip geometry between Triple K, Houston, and InterarmsTX mags shows no significant differences in measurements. All of the three versions can work well, with perhaps minor lip adjustment.


Original Connecticut made magazines are still the best to get. Good ones can still be found on the used market for prices similar to the aftermarket magazines. You must learn how to identify them, however, as sellers often have no idea of the maker of their magazines.


I suspect the difference between stock number 612M and 490M is limited to the packaging. There should be no difference in the magazines themselves.
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:34 PM
webfoot56

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Originally Posted by HSWayne View Post
Dcarey, I am guessing the magazines shown in the photos are the ones that came with the pistols. The one with the Dura-matic is a post-2005 Triple K made magazine, and the one with the Trophy is a post-2005 Houston High Standard magazine. The one you need for the Trophy is part no. 990M. You will probably have to remove some metal from the rear portion of the left rear feed lip to get it to fit the ejector in the pistol, as suggested by SGVictor.


Houston High Standard and InterarmsTX both obtain their magazine bodies from Triple K. Both heat treat the feed lips. The Houston magazines use original style green followers, and the InterarmsTX mags use red colored followers from the same supplier that Triple K uses. Comparison of the feed lip geometry between Triple K, Houston, and InterarmsTX mags shows no significant differences in measurements. All of the three versions can work well, with perhaps minor lip adjustment.


Original Connecticut made magazines are still the best to get. Good ones can still be found on the used market for prices similar to the aftermarket magazines. You must learn how to identify them, however, as sellers often have no idea of the maker of their magazines.


I suspect the difference between stock number 612M and 490M is limited to the packaging. There should be no difference in the magazines themselves.
This is my experience also with what I have learned from the the 3 manufacturers. Original Connecticut magazines are what I purchase and have the best luck with.
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:44 PM
Alan Aronstein

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Interarms HS Magazines

I am sure that maybe 2 years ago : I announced on this forum that I had changed the Heat Treat method on our magazines. I also noted that I had changed the geometry of our magazines. It is true that I buy magazine shells from Triple K Mfg.They make very Good stampings. I and Bob Shea net with them about 15 years ago and, we worked thru the changes that resulted in the current magazine stampings. For anyone to say that Interarms supplies the same magazine specifications as Triple K or the now Closed HS company is wrong. They would need to have the lip form gauge that Bob Shea gave to me. They would also have to have the dimension gauges that I made for the body of the magazines. I am sure that John Probably has prints for the magazine gauges. If some of the forum members would notice that other members make WONDERFUL remarks about the Interarms Magazines. I don't even make the claims that they report- THANK YOU. I am still at Camp Perry. I sold completely out of magazines during the Pistol Matches!!! People are currently coming to my building to place orders. I beleive that the current Interarms magazines are excellent and will give great performance in your HS Pistols. They fit the pistols and, they feed VERY well with minor or NO adjustment !!!- Alan Aronstein
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:18 AM
LDBennett
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SGVictor:

There is no argument about how well the Hi Std target pistols perform in competition. My point was that the design, even with its success, is technically flawed. Pushing the control of cartridge feeding onto the magazine lips without a adequate feed ramp, as seen in most every other semi-auto design, is a flaw in the design. Yes, Hi Std made it work but at the cost of the sensitivity of the mag feed lips. You are right that it comes down to performance and not the purity of the design. But I can still wish that the gun included an adequate (as compared to other pistols) feed ramp. I make such comments here to emphasize to the unknowing that the feed lips are super important to how the Hi Std guns feed ammo. Someone new to Hi Std might not realize these mag lip's importance.

Thank you for the other clarifications in your post.

LDBennett
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:01 PM
Gus1957

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Frame: Slide stop condition / evaluation ?

Sir,

You have a lot of knowledge on HS target pistols.

1) Have you known anyone to try and put a buffer of either a "compressible" material or add a hole for a spring /bumper in the frame stop where the slide hits.

2) Is there a method/measurement for evaluating the frame slide stop surface condition? Some pistols that I have purchased seem really hammered more than others, but don't have cracks in frame near slide release stop pocket.

Thank you
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Old 08-04-2019, 07:45 PM
Dcarey51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Aronstein View Post
I am sure that maybe 2 years ago : I announced on this forum that I had changed the Heat Treat method on our magazines. I also noted that I had changed the geometry of our magazines. It is true that I buy magazine shells from Triple K Mfg.They make very Good stampings. I and Bob Shea net with them about 15 years ago and, we worked thru the changes that resulted in the current magazine stampings. For anyone to say that Interarms supplies the same magazine specifications as Triple K or the now Closed HS company is wrong. They would need to have the lip form gauge that Bob Shea gave to me. They would also have to have the dimension gauges that I made for the body of the magazines. I am sure that John Probably has prints for the magazine gauges. If some of the forum members would notice that other members make WONDERFUL remarks about the Interarms Magazines. I don't even make the claims that they report- THANK YOU. I am still at Camp Perry. I sold completely out of magazines during the Pistol Matches!!! People are currently coming to my building to place orders. I beleive that the current Interarms magazines are excellent and will give great performance in your HS Pistols. They fit the pistols and, they feed VERY well with minor or NO adjustment !!!- Alan Aronstein
Thanks to all who replied! Alan, I'll be in touch!

Thanks again,
Dan
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:03 PM
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I will be buying some mags from Alan.
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