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Old 08-06-2020, 02:51 PM
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Ammo selection with a turner



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Hay guy's,
I no nothing about tuners or how to go about using them. Having said that my question is this: should you test ammo and decide what shoots best in the rifle before adding a tuner? It makes sense to me that would be the correct way to establish what ammo selection performs best in that particular rifle. If you then decide to add a tuner, you would have a base line to measure any accuracy improvements against. Is this the correct way to get started?
Really appreciate any input on how to correctly deicide on a tuner and how to use it.
Kiddshooter
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Old 08-06-2020, 04:30 PM
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That has been my understanding. A tuner won't make mediocre ammo shoot well. Find what brand and lot # your rifle likes, testing with a naked barrel, and tune from there. There are a few methods to find the best tune for your particular set up. I used the Purdy Rx which some say doesn't work. It got me within 5 clicks of my best setting on the tuner, which was probably due to my less than accurate measuring. I have no measurable vertical. There is also the Hopewell method which is time and ammo consuming. I'm no expert but only stating what worked for me. Let us know how you progress.

Last edited by elohssa63; 08-06-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:49 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Originally Posted by elohssa63 View Post
That has been my understanding. A tuner won't make mediocre ammo shoot well. Find what brand and lot # your rifle likes, testing with a naked barrel, and tune from there. There are a few methods to find the best tune for your particular set up. I used the Purdy Rx which some say doesn't work. It got me within 5 clicks of my best setting on the tuner, which was probably due to my less than accurate measuring. I have no measurable vertical. There is also the Hopewell method which is time and ammo consuming. I'm no expert but only stating what worked for me. Let us know how you progress.
So the rifle shoots one hole?

Lee
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:55 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Originally Posted by Kiddshooter View Post
Hay guy's,
I no nothing about tuners or how to go about using them. Having said that my question is this: should you test ammo and decide what shoots best in the rifle before adding a tuner? It makes sense to me that would be the correct way to establish what ammo selection performs best in that particular rifle. If you then decide to add a tuner, you would have a base line to measure any accuracy improvements against. Is this the correct way to get started?
Really appreciate any input on how to correctly deicide on a tuner and how to use it.
Kiddshooter
Finding ammo that shoots good is the right approach. as it is best to tune with the best ammo the rifle will shoot with.
keep in mind the tuner is just one factor in getting a rifle to shoot at its best. bedding, rest setup all pay into extracting the best accuracy.

Lee
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Old 08-07-2020, 12:30 AM
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I recently was shootin a 40X with a tuner and found a good setting, three in a small bughole at 50 more times than not.... I took the tuner off cause I was curious and I wanted to clean it. Groups without the tuner were twice as big.
That suggests to me; find the tune with different brands and lots with the tuner on.

You’re wantin to get there anyway, and you could shoot less ammo. maybe
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Old 08-07-2020, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 1911nut View Post
I recently was shootin a 40X with a tuner and found a good setting, three in a small bughole at 50 more times than not.... I took the tuner off cause I was curious and I wanted to clean it. Groups without the tuner were twice as big.
That suggests to me; find the tune with different brands and lots with the tuner on.

You’re wantin to get there anyway, and you could shoot less ammo. maybe
This is where you have a what came first situation. to tune with ammo that doesn't shoot good already will be frustrating at the very least.
you will never know if it was the ammo or the tuner setting.
you would be surprised how many think that ok this lot shoots pretty good except for that flier. so I put a tuner on it and tune that away, then they burn up a lot of ammo in frustration as the flier never goes away.
or they get it so it not as far out of the group and as frequent as before and they get some really good groups too!
so they say ok I am done found the tune. then they spent forever trying to find that lot that will shoot one hole, not knowing the rifle is not tuned.

How I can say this, because I been that guy

Lee
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:11 AM
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Thanks all for your replies and information.
This particular Anschutz shot 3 5 shot groups, this past Wed. evening that measured .170, .132 and .098 and then shot two 10 bull cards with a score of 200and 12 X's. Conditions were perfect, mid seventies with no wind. So, unless it starts to show vertical stringing, I think I better not touch it.
Last night I did research the PRX tuning method and the Hopewell, to try to get a better understanding of the tuning process/effect and actually came away more confused than ever. I was under the impression that the weight of the tuner and its setting would help control the barrel harmonics and after reading both articles, it seems to me to be a combination or weight and overall barrel length combined. Am I correct in this assumption?
Thanks again.
Kiddshooter
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Old 08-07-2020, 06:09 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
So the rifle shoots one hole?

Lee
Yep, that`s what it does. One hole in the right conditions and with the right lot of ammo. The sighter is six shots with RWS R-50. The shot in the black was the first shot of the day. Cold bore. The next 5 shots is the one hole group under the first shot. Sorry, the photo is sideways. The rifle does not seem to be ammo picky as it will one hole with Midas Plus as well as Eley Match, as long as they are good lots and conditions are favorable.[Not all day long when I do my part as I sometimes read here.] So, if tuning using the Purdy Rx is like a broken clock,only right twice a day, I must be picking the right time of day to shoot. And wait, this isn`t a full on custom smithed benchrest rifle. It`s an entry level Cooper TRP-3. I shot a 248 15X on this target. Nothing to write home about. Target is not cherry picked. I shot this today.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by elohssa63 View Post
Yep, that`s what it does. One hole in the right conditions and with the right lot of ammo. The sighter is six shots with RWS R-50. The shot in the black was the first shot of the day. Cold bore. The next 5 shots is the one hole group under the first shot. Sorry, the photo is sideways. The rifle does not seem to be ammo picky as it will one hole with Midas Plus as well as Eley Match, as long as they are good lots and conditions are favorable.[Not all day long when I do my part as I sometimes read here.] So, if tuning using the Purdy Rx is like a broken clock,only right twice a day, I must be picking the right time of day to shoot. And wait, this isn`t a full on custom smithed benchrest rifle. It`s an entry level Cooper TRP-3. I shot a 248 15X on this target. Nothing to write home about. Target is not cherry picked. I shot this today.
44- year old Anschutz 1413 using a lighten tuner factory barrel. 10-shots at Lapua's Mesa tunnel lot of CX was not hand picked just something I had on hand to tune with

249-17X not bad for a 44 year rifle
not shot in a cherry condition!
another target different lot of CX shot after the above target and another shot right after with 2 lots of CX 1962 & 3182 alternating shoot 1-bull with one lot change lot on the next. NOTE THE 10 SHOT GROUP none shot under right conditions, no such thing at the range I shoot at!

Lee

Last edited by Hi-NV Shooter; 08-07-2020 at 11:18 PM. Reason: add pictures
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:15 PM
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Lee, that is some great shooting for sure and the smallest 10 shot group that I have ever seen. I would like to have a chance to shoot indoors away from the wind, but we don`t have a range near here. I live on the Gulf of Mexico and the wind blows all the time. You gave me an Idea. I was at the range today goofing off and decided to try switching lots while shooting the same group. I had a not so good lot of Eley Black that was not grouping so well, so I switched to the R-50 after running a few dry patches through the barrel. The photo is 5 shots. Three of lot # 182 and 2 of lot # 965, both unobtainable at present I hate to say. We had light, switching winds and I waited for a lull before shooting. You had to be quick because the condition only lasted a very short time. I was surprised, to say the least at the group. A shooter at our club says that RWS has most consistent FPS through his chronograph. I wonder why we never see any RWS used at the major shoots. Most shoot Eley or Lapua. Take care, Les {Photo is sideways again}
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:29 PM
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You don't see RWS being shot because most shooters hate to get beat. If it worked RWS is all you would see being shot.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
You don't see RWS being shot because most shooters hate to get beat. If it worked RWS is all you would see being shot.
It's working for me and a few other shooters at our club. I resisted trying RWS because no one shot it. All I can say is try it and you might like it. Eley has been the worst lately.
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:09 AM
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I think testing ammo w/o the tuner is probably the better way to go. Having said that, I never do. As I think about it when at some of the larger matches watching others test ammo, I've never seen a tuner removed, ever.
I suppose thats because our br rigs are usually in tune, or very very close. We also have in our mind what we should be seeing out of a group.
I rarely shoot groups other than to check tune. I'm in the camp that moves his tuner rather frequently, meaning day to day. Or even as the day progresses. Never more a a few clicks in either direction as needed. Most of the time it works, but not all the time. Sometimes its pretty painful.
I envy the ones that never have to move their tuners.

Keith
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by linekin View Post
I think testing ammo w/o the tuner is probably the better way to go. Having said that, I never do. As I think about it when at some of the larger matches watching others test ammo, I've never seen a tuner removed, ever.
I suppose thats because our br rigs are usually in tune, or very very close. We also have in our mind what we should be seeing out of a group.
I rarely shoot groups other than to check tune. I'm in the camp that moves his tuner rather frequently, meaning day to day. Or even as the day progresses. Never more a a few clicks in either direction as needed. Most of the time it works, but not all the time. Sometimes its pretty painful.
I envy the ones that never have to move their tuners.

Keith
Keith,

That is exactly why I suggested to the OP to test for ammo first, then try a tuner.

Lee
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:59 AM
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If using a tuner makes your groups smaller then it is also making the differences in ammo smaller. Which means your testing and measuring procedures need to be more advanced. As rifles and ammo progress your ability to select lots and tunes becomes more and more difficult.
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