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Old 06-09-2021, 11:27 PM
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Appleseed 200 KD RF ammo selection



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I'm going to get in some practice this weekend for next weekends 200KD rimfire. I haven't shot out past 100yd with a rimfire, and looking for ammo advice.

What is the suggested fps to shoot that distance. I have bricks of CCI std, SK std+, CCI mm 40rn. (So 1070fps vs 1235fps) Will the extra fps help with a flatter shot or wind considerations? Suggestions on what to sight in with and bring for the 200?


-Also, I've seen recommendations for arriving with a 25 yd zero. Why not dial in a tight 100yd zero to begin with for this long range KD? I'll have all the time in the world to fine tune and get dope for the 150 and 200 this weekend and come to the event prepared. Your thoughts welcomed?
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:57 AM
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When I shoot out to 200 yards, I find that standard velocity ammo is the way to go. The CCI SV and SK is usually what I use for this. I find it is more accurate than the high velocity ammunition. I have shot the rimfire KD course on my home range, but not in a regular event yet. I usually shoot a steel plate rack at 100 and 200 yards, Knowing your come-ups will be vital for hitting the targets.

A 100 yard zero, will be approximately six inches high at 25 yards. I'm sure the instructors will have you shooting at 25 yards as well, before shooting the rimfire KD.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:53 AM
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I used CCI SV and shot very well (one shot out of the black at 200) last weekend I came with a 25M zero and had to come up 12.5 mils (45 MOA or 91 inches) to hit the v-ring at 200 yards. While I recommend a 50 yard zero (and getting DOPE for your rifle at 100 as well), a 25M zero is sufficient. If possible, gather DOPE at 125, 150, and 200 as well. A print out from a ballistic calculator SHOULD get you close if you cannot gather data in advance (that's what I did). The main thing is to have a zeroed rifle (25M or 50 yards). The 200 yard RKD's I have shot at we started at 50 yards.

That being said, shoot whatever shoots best in your rifle. Be aware that what shoots well in your rifle at 25M, may not shoot well at 200. Transonic disruption and all that (if using HV ammo).

Also, if you plan on shooting SV ammo, be sure your scope can handle that much adjustment or you have a 20-30 MOA scope base installed. Most 30mm scopes can handle it.

I used a Mil scope because I was familiar with it and got a good deal on one. MOA is definitely as good as Mil at 200 yards. I prefer Mil scopes at distance, but YMMV.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:14 AM
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45 MOA, that's a lot! Mine is usually 21-27 MOA from 100 yard zero, depending on which rifle I use. My usual come ups from 25 to 100 is approximately 6, then 21 to 27 from 100. My Appleseed rifles, all have one inch scopes, but I also have 20 MOA rails for more elevation.
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwadley View Post
I came with a 25M zero and had to come up 12.5 mils (45 MOA or 91 inches) to hit the v-ring at 200 yards. While I recommend a 50 yard zero (and getting DOPE for your rifle at 100 as well), a 25M zero is sufficient.
The 200 yard RKD's I have shot at we started at 50 yards.

Also, if you plan on shooting SV ammo, be sure your scope can handle that much adjustment or you have a 20-30 MOA scope base installed.

Thank you.
I do not have a MOA scope base so I emailed Athlon and he indicated I have turrets for 60 MOA (yes, 30mm tube). That converts to 17.8 mils, so ASSuming my rifle shoots at least something similar to yours for CCI SV, I should be fine with this setup for the day.

I thought the AS site said show with a 25 yd zero, but maybe that wasn't meant for the 200KD if you said they started yours at 50. I guess I thought it would make most sense to zero with a certain ammo, the closest to what distances you would be shooting most often that day.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Trigger71 View Post
I'm going to get in some practice this weekend for next weekends 200KD rimfire. I haven't shot out past 100yd with a rimfire, and looking for ammo advice.
Gun?

Biathlon taught me that weight is your friend. Gun laying is a physics issue. Even more so in free position shooting. Heavy guns with long barrels are good gun platforms...once your body becomes accustomed to the weight, of course. And it will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger71 View Post
What is the suggested fps to shoot that distance. I have bricks of CCI std, SK std+, CCI mm 40rn. (So 1070fps vs 1235fps) Will the extra fps help with a flatter shot or wind considerations? Suggestions on what to sight in with and bring for the 200?
My opinion...unless your gun shoots around corners, fps is practically immaterial. Shoot what shoots. You want a 4 MOA capable gun as a minimum. Wind is gonna screw with everything the same so pick a round. And shoot lots. And lots. And lots. But, cuz everyone loves to see a brand name drop, I shoot the Eley Force 42gr. round. Fast, stays under 4 MOA (in my gun), 42 gr. bullet carries a smidge better. If you shoot silhouettes, this one hits them harder. Eley's sweet blown primer smells better than a good Cuban. The round looks cool.

Nuther thing that doesn't get talked about enough. Fitness. It matters. For biathlon training, I practiced lots just holding the gun up. Put up a target. Soon as your sights wobble off the black lower the gun for a short break. Then up again and hold. And repeat. And repeat. And repeat. Do push-ups with wide hand spacing, wide grip pull-ups, military presses, wide grip rowing. Do some cardio work. This stuff is way more important than the ammo you shoot. Plus, you will look dangerous with your shirt off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger71 View Post
-Also, I've seen recommendations for arriving with a 25 yd zero. Why not dial in a tight 100yd zero to begin with for this long range KD? I'll have all the time in the world to fine tune and get dope for the 150 and 200 this weekend and come to the event prepared. Your thoughts welcomed?
Whatever works. I don't like hold unders...that's not intuitive. I sight for 65 yards for a fast round. I want the round as flat as possible to 100 yards. Set targets up at 25, 50, 75 and 100 and shoot the load. In all positions. I want to see a hold over at 100 of around 4"-ish. If you are using a scope, pick a clean reticle. No fancy rubbish. An MOA reticle with 1 and 5 MOA hashes on both axis is predictable, intuitive and scalable. If you are shooting iron sights, shoot the smallest aperture you can before struggling with your sight picture.

And don't over look fitness. Can't stress it enough. Huge gains. More than any ammo will ever give you.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Darkest_One View Post
Whatever works. I don't like hold unders...that's not intuitive. I sight for 65 yards for a fast round. I want the round as flat as possible to 100 yards. Set targets up at 25, 50, 75 and 100 and shoot the load.
While I don't disagree with the benefits of knowing what your 65 yard zero is, come to the event with your rifle set at a 25M or 50 yard zero...50 is preferable because that is likely the shortest distance you will shoot that day. If coming with a 50 yard zero, knowing what your come-ups are for 100, 125, 150 and 200 yards will put you ahead of the game.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rwadley View Post
.

Also, if you plan on shooting SV ammo, be sure your scope can handle that much adjustment or you have a 20-30 MOA scope base installed. Most 30mm scopes can handle it.
This thread is about ammo but it seems there's a good bit of expertise regarding optics. Kind of part of the equation.

I want to do the 200 yard KD at Ramseur in August. Thinking my 4x fixed scope isn't ideal.

Instead maybe I should consider one of the $170 Hawke 3-9x that have the velocity calibrated BDC reticles? But they have no AO and would be good only for that ammo in that mode. Sorta a one trick pony.

Maybe the Vortex MOA scope, FFP, AO, fancy reticle, but not illuminated, for $350?

Maybe I am overthinking this.

Tippmann M4-22, 16"
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mostly22lately View Post
This thread is about ammo but it seems there's a good bit of expertise regarding optics. Kind of part of the equation.

I want to do the 200 yard KD at Ramseur in August. Thinking my 4x fixed scope isn't ideal.

Instead maybe I should consider one of the $170 Hawke 3-9x that have the velocity calibrated BDC reticles? But they have no AO and would be good only for that ammo in that mode. Sorta a one trick pony.

Maybe the Vortex MOA scope, FFP, AO, fancy reticle, but not illuminated, for $350?

Maybe I am overthinking this.

Tippmann M4-22, 16"
I am used to Primary Arms 4-14 FFP. However, Midway has a good deal on TruGlo Centra rifle scopes for less than half the price. That is the scope I used last weekend. Since I only used it one day, I have a hard time fully recommending it, but so far so good. It has locking turrets. The only thing I wish it had was a zero stop. I don't think you will find a comparable scope for the price (or even double the price).
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:57 PM
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I've shot at least a dozen long range Silhouette matches with several of my shooting buddies using Standard Velocity ammo.
We shoot at 50m 100m 150m and 200m.
From 100yds I dial up 23-MOA for the 200m targets. We all do.

So from 100 to 200yds you should be looking at 19-21MOA.

You should never use clicks because it's way to easy to lose track, but if you want to then it would be 80 clicks for a 1/4 inch scope and 160 for a 1/8 click scope.
I'd have to due the math on a mil scope.

Bottom line is that 45MOA would be way, way...............too much.

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 06-10-2021 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 06-10-2021, 06:50 PM
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I am used to Primary Arms 4-14 FFP. However, Midway has a good deal on TruGlo Centra rifle scopes for less than half the price.
Yikes, that is tempting.
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Darkest_One View Post
Gun?

Biathlon taught me that weight is your friend.

If you are using a scope, pick a clean reticle. No fancy rubbish. An MOA reticle with 1 and 5 MOA hashes on both axis is predictable, intuitive and scalable.

.
Darkest One, I think perhaps you Like the Eley Force due to the black oxidised round as it matches your name. :-)


You ask what rifle... I had planned on a Bergara B14-R. It has a carbon fiber barrel but the stock is heavy enough to make it stable. As a long-range .22, the 200 shouldn't be an issue, but again, my range was only 100 and all I've been able to shoot. It is bolt action which was worrisome for me for the rapid events. I have a Athlon 6-24 MRAD with open turrets. If I use this, I can zero and just adjust the comeups with the turrets (it tracks well).

Per the recommendations here, I just borrowed a 10/22, though I've never shot it. It has some trigger work, a heavy (Boyd's??) stock and a Ruger bull barrel. Burris 4.5-14x with cross-hair and three vertical sub-tensions only. Turrets are not easily adjusted.

I do have several different Eley, Sk variants, but hard to swallow shooting 400 black box at 4moa off hand . That said, I've set aside a brick of the CCI SV or MM for this AS event. Guess I'll try both rifles. If I practice and can make the bolt work I will. If not, I want this borrowed rifle set up. I only have one evening this week before the event to select an ammo.

The advice offered on this site is invaluable. Thanks all, and I will report back the results. As the title of thread, I was just not sure an SV ammo would shoot to 200 and I have my answer.

Steve
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger71 View Post
I'm going to get in some practice this weekend for next weekends 200KD rimfire. I haven't shot out past 100yd with a rimfire, and looking for ammo advice.

What is the suggested fps to shoot that distance. I have bricks of CCI std, SK std+, CCI mm 40rn. (So 1070fps vs 1235fps) Will the extra fps help with a flatter shot or wind considerations? Suggestions on what to sight in with and bring for the 200?


-Also, I've seen recommendations for arriving with a 25 yd zero. Why not dial in a tight 100yd zero to begin with for this long range KD? I'll have all the time in the world to fine tune and get dope for the 150 and 200 this weekend and come to the event prepared. Your thoughts welcomed?

You are overthinking this, your bergara with 6-24 athlon will be fine. Stay in riflemans cadence that you learned in standard Appleseed and you will have plenty of time for all stages of AQT. I shot my highest score AQT with a bolt action CZ455 with a 3-15x scope mounted.

25 and 50 yard zero are very, very close to each other. For my rifles shooting SV ammo they are essentially the same zero at 50 as 25. You will start at short distance to establish a baseline confirmation, then start moving around. You will be moving a lot at the KD event as the target line is fixed, but you move forward and back in relation to the target line. They may start at 25, move to 50 then 100,150,200,75 etc etc all day. KD shoots are a workout as you relocate so much, bring a backpack as that makes relocating a bit easier.

Stick with the cci or sk+. They will be more consistent than mmís. Plus you should all ready have a good idea of dope for your bergara. If you switch to a borrowed 10/22 it will be different muzzle velocity and therefore different dope (10/22 uses some energy from bullet to actuate bolt, thus typically slower mvís than bolt action gun). Stick to one rifle and keep good data starting out. Getting a few good shots off is way better than spraying a lot of inconsistent shots rapidly. For KD you need good groups to calculate the math Appleseed is going to teach you for long range.

Have fun and bring along some friends next time, Appleseeds are kind of addicting.
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Old Today, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoothtrigger View Post
I've shot at least a dozen long range Silhouette matches with several of my shooting buddies using Standard Velocity ammo.
We shoot at 50m 100m 150m and 200m.
From 100yds I dial up 23-MOA for the 200m targets. We all do.

So from 100 to 200yds you should be looking at 19-21MOA.

You should never use clicks because it's way to easy to lose track, but if you want to then it would be 80 clicks for a 1/4 inch scope and 160 for a 1/8 click scope.
I'd have to due the math on a mil scope.

Bottom line is that 45MOA would be way, way...............too much.

Smooth
Maybe my scope is calibrated incorrectly or I have slow ammo. I don't know. I do know that you can run out of adjustment on some scopes. Whether it is right or wrong, at least it is repeatable. I know what my turret says for each distance (25M, 50y, 100y, 150y, 200y) and that's what really matters. Know your equipment.
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