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SuperStock 25 Yard Quarter Inch Club

128K views 3K replies 159 participants last post by  Vincent 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Members:

Hawkeye57,Clem-Eplinker4life, Oldblades, ThunderStick, ThunderStick, truckjohn, 86c, rokehe, fullup3, Kaiser, rokehe, rokehe, bobcatr, rokehe,rokehe, RON 1738, Kaiser, bobcatr, bobcatr, DrGunner, gmd1950,Vincent, mapper, Clem-E, MtStream, Houndog_1, Nick Adams, WHO DAT 504, WHO DAT 504, Houndog 1, BigSky1, 17ghogkiller, Chromie, gmd1950, gmd1950, trimguy, zaphod621, dons, Motor7, 17ghogkiller, zaphod621, trimguy, FiremanFrank, Vincent/RICOCHET, lindertw, chevy73, mobenzowner, ky_simple_man, 17ghogkiller, mobenzowner, WIZZr, trimguy, BigSky1, lindertw, FiremanFrank, FiremanFrank, shooter35, fiyerbirdie400, scoreshot, WIZZr, trob, Chromie, gmd1950, gmd1950, gmd1950, ky simple man, VirginiaBoy, timberbeast63, JTPinTX, Chromie, Wizzr, 2550fps, Que, Don Hanson, roothog, rict, Robert Hode, jGEE, roothog, RICOCHET, jGEE, Passinby, Al the Infidel, ShootAtSky, Que, Que (pistol!), JJFUNK, slowhanddd, Passinby

Don Hanson, backrhino, mmataya, Que, Greg D, Que, dons, Don Hanson, merda capoocia, Passinby, dads addiction, slowhanddd, merda copoocia, speed647, AK, Que, MinusB, AK, earthdragon090, AK, Yellokw, AK, AK, earthdragon090, rigrat, RICOCHET, Vincent, Passinby, JohnBob, Washooter, rigrat, twofish, GM Geezer , Joseph Filippi, Sophia, Deadi, OpsMgr, CockpitBob, getom59, Deadi, Vincent, OpsMgr, OpsMgr, AK, RICOCHET, Chromie, SQUAWSACH, RICOCHET, SQUAWSACH, AK, Snydley, RICOCHET, Vincent, midwest swiss , gmcfixer, Chromie, sawdust.

In order to become a member of the SuperStock 25 Yard Quarter Inch Club you must post a picture of a single target showing four five shot groups with three of the four groups measuring 1/4" or less center to center. Four additional individual shots are required for measurement purposes.

The single holes are to be measured to the same accuracy as the groups, hopefully to .001". These four shots are to be averaged and that is the number to be subtracted from the max group width to determine the Center to Center group size. ( This is the standard for calculating center to center group size).

There are some rules.

1. Targets are to be shot at 25 yards.

2. Gun - any gun that is a SuperStock- no classes.

3. Ammo - shoot any ammo that you and your gun like.

4. Sights - anything you like.

5. Rests - shoot any position or rest that you want to.

6. Post a picture of your groups, all on one sheet, showing the groups, four extra shots for calculations and the calculated group sizes.

7. PLEASE measure and calculate the groups per the above so we all stay on the same page.

8. Posting - just post your pics to this thread.

Hope thats not too many rules.

So what do you get for shooting quarter inch groups at 25 yards? Strictly bragging rights.You can claim to be able to shoot quarter inch, or less, center to center groups three out of four times at 25 yards and have it documented.

The target pictures are fun to see and a picture and description of the gun and ammo are a great way to share information and let others see what it takes to shoot tight groups.

When the targets are posted to this thread I will add your handle to the members list.

As I am not at all bashful I will kick things off with some results from the second outing with my SuperStock.

There are some great guns being built here and the Members list should grow quickly. :t :t :t

Good luck.

sawdust
 
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#2 · (Edited)
This is the format that I had in mind.

Nice day, 60 deg and 10 to 15 mph breeze. Shooting SK JagD Standard Plus.





The "Stock" part, external apperance, of my Wal-Mart Special includes a 0.2" shorter barrel, a small magazine release extension, overtravel set screw and a stainless socket head cap screw for the second action hold down. This is the one that Squawsach detailed in an Action Forum sticky. It is topped off with a Simmons 3-9x32 A/O 22 Mag scope with a Ruger base and Weaver rings.

Now for the "Super" part. Its what inside that counts. We usually do all of our own trigger work using the stock Ruger parts but Squawsach had a Power Custom kit that we wanted to try. Randall sent him two kits for his suggestion to add a set screw to the sear. The kit is excellent. We used everything in the kit except the hammer spring. As good as this kit is Squawsach had to work on it a bit. He polished the hammer radius and the engagement surface, shimmed the hammer bushings and secured the bushings and shims to the hammer with LockTite 609. Then he polished an oversize hammer pin and lapped it into the hammer bushings. Perfect fit. While we didn't want a real light trigger pull the PC kit and just a little polishing gave us a nice crisp 2 lb. 2 oz. trigger.

The bolt got the usual mods. The back of the bolt was radiused, the firing pin was polished and staked and the head space was ground to .043" and the extractor was sharpened. We made our own bolt buffer and Squawsach jeweled the bolt.

The .2" shorter barrel is the result of a set back. It was then rechambered with a PTG Match reamer. We also bedded the first three inches of the barrel as well as the front and rear of the action. The rest of the barrel is free floated.

I really wanted to lay down four groups under 1/4" but that wasn't the case today.

Thanks

sawdust
 
#3 ·
Would a Rhineland R22 count as a Superstock? All I've done to it is install a VQ extractor and stone the hammer notch for a smoother trigger pull.

If it qualifies, I'll look for my target tomorrow I shot last year. Six groups, the best five averaged .182. I'll scan and email it to you full-size. I don't have four individual holes in it but you can see that at least three of those groups will clearly be under .250.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Snake45

I'm not at all familiar with a Rhinelander R22 and if I was I wouldn't make a decision as to weather or not its a SuperStock, thats entirely up to you. As for the target, it sounds like you could easily duplicate your previous effort only with four groups and the singles and then neither one of us has to make a decision. If you need some help in getting it posted I will give it a try.

Thanks

sawdust
 
#7 ·
RICOCHET

I use a dial caliper. However I am not going to nit pic how everything is done. I've been through the group measuring thing too many times. This, like all of the e-mail matches, is the honor system and what ever you measure and write on the target is what I'll accept. No question asked.

Back to your question. You could measure everything with a micrometer but a dial caliper is a lot easier.

Good luck

sawdust
 
#8 · (Edited)
thanks, sawdust,

but dont have either one handy, in the shop, maybe. just wanted to know, besides, dont think i can shoot groups small enuff that i need a caliper, LOL. will be trying tho'. think this 1/4" club will be kinda "restricted" to the very best shooters here. i have a hard time doing 3/8" groups, even 5/16", LOL

thanks again.








 
#9 ·
Well crud. I can find every target I've shot in the last two years except of course the one from the R22. Just the one I need.

I did find two from my Annie 64 that would easily qualify--and with cheap bulk ammo, too! Is my Annie a superstock? I know it's a target rifle to start with, but I put it in an old Remington 700 stock to make a sporter out of it. If you say you'll accept it as a SS, I'll scan and email the targets to you.
 
#11 ·
We really do not have any rules as what is a SS and what is not. The idea wa modifed stock rifle with light weight barrels that still have a high percentage looks wise of the original design. Having said that the R22 certainly doesn't meet the Spirit of the rules that don't even exist :rolleyes:

I don't even know what to think of the other rifle, Does have a light barrel? A SS should be a lighter weight hunting/plinking rifle. It should have a light barrel?Does it meet that?

Bottom line is this: Unless somebody else starts screaming I would go this way. The R22 is definetly NOT a SS and I haven't seen the other. But if Snake just needs a place to post his groups I have NO problem with that. If I'm the one making the decision I say that his rifle are not SS but he is welcome to post his groups here.
 
#12 ·
I didn't realize Superstock was a semiauto thing, sorry. Below is a picture of my Annie, with my Ruger 77/22 and my Rem 541. It's the black one. I set it up specifically for 100 yard plinking and "minisniping" but I suppose by your definition it's still more of a target rifle.

I'd argue that my Rhineland R22 should qualify. The gun has a .750 diameter, 16" barrel, which is a long way from a bull barrel. Whole gun weighs 6.5 pounds which is not exactly heavy. Retail price on it is $425, and I have a $40 used gun show scope on it--I'll bet others here have that much or more in their 10/22s. Superstock? Okay it might be a COPO 427 Camaro or a '68 Hemi Dart but I think it ought to qualify. But if everyone says no I guess it doesn't.

Here's the Annie:

 
#13 · (Edited)
Snake45

I looked up your Rineland R22 and agree with Vincent that it isn't in the spirit of a SuperStock. As for the Annie in the Remington stock I don't have a problem, its like running a Ford 428 Cobre Jet in a Corvette, may be a potent combo but doesn't seem quite right but who cares. By the way I actually did see a Ford powered Vett at the NHRA Sportsmans Spring Nationals in Bowling Green KY a number of years back and it wasn't running in SuperStock. As for the targets, I don't think you have any in the archives that fit the proposed format. Why not just shoot a new target with three our of four at 1/4" or better center to center then take a pic and post. I'm not trying to be nit pickin, just trying to keep everyone on the same page. Besides, its one more excuse to go shooting.

Good luck

sawdust
 
#14 ·
Hey Snake

read the sticky or part of it and you might get a better idea of what "the spirit of a super stock" is and what is OK. I saw you had a 10/22 why not piddle with it and make it shoot 1/4 groups. It's a good way to relay and get out of the house for me. go shoot some new targets and post some pictures, it will be a good time. good luck and good shootin'

Chromie
 
#17 · (Edited)
That is one of the very few .9 inch barrels that is, Remember the "light barrel" thing? We decided awhile back that since it came from the factory like that the "T" and the Race Rifles would be ok. So yes, the "t" is in. Snake If you read my post I told you that if you just want get on the list and need a place to post your score you can post them here even though the gun may not be a SuperStock. No big deal. This not a competition between you and me it is a way to get you name on the list.

When I first spent alot of time trying expand the original SuperStock class for firearm I was expressly was against ANY competion for the very reason of what we are going through with you now. SS is NOT about equipment racing. It is abort having a nice lightweight with very good practical accuracy in a firearm that is recognizable as a 10/22, Marlin 60, Remington 597, Ruger 96 etc. I did not want compitition coming in here a screwing everything up. When Sawdust came to me with the 1/4 inch challenge I listened what he wanted and this is about SHOWING good practical accuracy so I agreed that it was with in that idea of being a noncompetative class. It is not so much about I shot a smaller group than you or visaversa. It was to be about showing good accuracy and about marksmanship in a good PRACTICAL rifle.

PLEASE NOTE: It was later decided that NO.920" barrel allowed of any kind. Largest barrel allowed is .750"
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thanks Vincent.

I too did not intend this to be a competition but just something to acknowledge a level of proficiency that everyone could strive for, enjoy achieving and then get a little recognition for doing so. Fun and another excuse to go shoot, along with a little motivation for improvement were what I had in mind.

I did have misgivings about mentioning "rules" but decided that there had to be at least a little structure so there could be a legitimate sense of accomplishment when you met the requirements. No winners, no loosers. You either get over the bar in the same manner as everyone else or you can keep trying. I hope this hasn't turned anyone off and I really don't intend for this to get any more complicated.

What I would really like to see are some posts of qualifying targets, guns and the details on what makes them shooters.

Lets keep this fun.

sawdust
 
#19 ·
So the 10/22T qualifies for Superstock. My R22 is almost a pound lighter, has a shorter, lighter barrel (.75, not a heavy barrel at all), and retail price is $7 less. I guess what you are saying is you just don't care for the looks of the R22.

I'm not going to waste my time and ammo producing a qualifying target if my gun's not "legal" for the class. If it is, I will.

I'll be playing with my stock-barrel 10/22s this year as well, but I've never seen either of them get anywhere near 1/4". On a GOOD day I can coax some 3/8" groups out of them.
 
#20 ·
"quarter pounder" club.....

dont think too many shooters here will be in that "elusive" one hole group
club, especially having to do three out of four on the same target.

lot of us here are trying <for 3/8" groups which i can do once in a while. but a 1/4" group for three or four on the same target is something to try for, but i have to keep in mind that this is not a "ulti" forum and there will be only a few that can do 1/4" groups three out of four times on one target with fliers and all. will follow this thread and see how many shooters can do this "magic". so far there are one or two shooters that can qualify easily.

remember all, what this started out as.

good shooting :Blasting_
 
#21 ·
RICOCHET

You're probably right as long as you only shoot bulk pack ammo. However, with all of the after market sporter barrels with Bentz chambers that are being mentioned, or factory barrels being rechambered plus all the trigger work and bedding, not to mention the full CPC tune ups, there has to be a bunch for capable guns either finished or on the way. So, after all of this it seems only right to feed these SuperStocks a little HiTest once in a while just to see what they can really do. Come on RICOCHET give it a try.

Good luck

sawdust
 
#22 ·
sawdust, yea,

LOL, have a randied WW factory bbl that i'm dying to try out, would be out in the back yard giving it the ole' rah, rah, but blowing about 35 mph, and is not conducive to ANY kind of groupings, let alone 1/4"ers as soon as mom nature quiets down will see how "IT" does. LOL, have to beat chromie, but cant afford lapua of any kind.








 
#23 ·
r-22

Snake45 said:
So the 10/22T qualifies for Superstock. My R22 is almost a pound lighter, has a shorter, lighter barrel (.75, not a heavy barrel at all), and retail price is $7 less. I guess what you are saying is you just don't care for the looks of the R22.

I'm not going to waste my time and ammo producing a qualifying target if my gun's not "legal" for the class. If it is, I will.

I'll be playing with my stock-barrel 10/22s this year as well, but I've never seen either of them get anywhere near 1/4". On a GOOD day I can coax some 3/8" groups out of them.
I don't think that anyone posted about not liking the looks of your R-22. But I don't think of the R-22 as a Super Stock. I think of it as an assault rifle wanna be. That's fine if it's your thing but the Super Stock class is a little more conservative and practical. The Super Stock class is sorta a proving ground for inexpensive mods. and tuning tricks. While I don't think I could ever consider the R-22 a Super Stock, I would love to hear about the mods you have made on it.
 
#24 ·
JMHO but the R22 is a "Super" - stock rifle. I think it should be allowed. If a Ruger T modle is allowed then why should we hold the stock style against it.

I think we need to define "Super stock" a little better. I just hope it doesn't start a war like the "ultimate" debate. :rolleyes:

My definition of "Super stock"
1. Rifle must maintain the overall look of a factory rifle
2. Rifle must retain the factory barrel contour for the stock being used = no hogged out carbines with bull barrels, but would allow a new match grade factory tapered barrel. Ruger T barrels could be swapped out for lighter weight barrels of the same taper, or barrels can remain stock or be set back like Randy does.
3. Stock, trigger group, and bolt must be OEM parts. They may be modified in any way you choose as long as they are original. = No KID or VQ triggers on a ruger receiver

Now, let's take a look at the Ruger Race Rifle. Many people are calling it a Super stock rifle right out of the box. Not me...........the barrel is too long and heavy, the trigger is too hard of a pull and the stock isn't bedded properly.
Bed the action and barrel, add skeeters hammer/sear kit, bolt buffer, extended mag release, auto bolt release and let Randy rework the bolt and cut the barrel down and recrown or slap on a VQ THM and THEN, I'll call it "Super stock", Maybe even an ultimate if it functions properly and shoots decently.

What do you guys think?
Question is, is "where do the Mods end?" If we can allow a barrel set back and rechambering, shouldn't we allow a replacement barrel as well? As long as it is a standard tapered barrel for the stock being used..............

Another one.
A Walnut DSP with skeeters internals, buffer, extended mag release, auto bolt release, polished guide rod, VQ trigger, CPC'd bolt, bedded, freefloated barrel and a GM fluted sporter barrel. I would call it a Super stock............would you?

I hope I haven't started another argument. I just want to know where I stand . Do I have a Super stock rifle???? An Ultimate??? Or something inbetween???

swampf0x
 
#25 · (Edited)
SwampF0X

I think about everything you mention concerning "what is a SuperStock" has been thrashed around considerably and generally agreed upon.. However, on the subject of the Rhineland R22 it, at least to me, is a Tactical or Assault "want to be" and not in the spirit and general consensus of SuperStock. The manufacturer has made an obvious effort to distinguish it from anything like the normal plinkers and squirrel shooters that are being worked on for enhansed performance while retaining the stock apperance.

Instead of all of this fussing about getting a Tactical style rifle into the SuperStock class someone should just start a Tactical thread. No problem.

SuperStock



Tactical (Rhineland R22)

Edit: The previous picture was challenged as not being a Rhineland R22 so I'll just provide the link to the Rhineland Arms web site.

http://www.rhinelandarms.com/

Maybe its just me but I'm not having a problem seeing the difference.

Good luck

sawdust
 
#26 ·
So it IS all about appearance.

The R22 seems to be styled after an H&K PSG-1 rifle, which is a precision rifle, NOT an assualt weapon.

But how about this for a compromise? I'll go shoot the groups your way with my R22 and CCI Minimag ammo (which is not exactly match-grade stuff). I keep the results off the board unless and until you recognize someone's achievement with a 10/22T. If a T model gets in the club, I get in. If no T model ever submits, then I stay out. Fair enough?
 
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