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  #16  
Old 02-21-2019, 06:24 PM
oldshot50
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If you can be at a big match so quickly, you have nothing to lose by taking your gear out there and offering it for sale. There are often shooters looking for used equipment that has been well maintained. With any luck, you may be surprised by a quick sale at a reasonable price. I would say go for it!
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2019, 03:23 AM
Abigkidagain
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Originally Posted by Abigkidagain View Post
OK, after shooting at home at 25 yards and being very impressed with my rifle and ammo, I signed up and shot my very first official IR50/50 match yesterday.

Some observations;

1. The ammo you use at 25 yards for fun has no bearing to what you will need to get any decent scores at 50 yards. Remington Sub-Sonic does wonders and is enjoyable for me at home at 25 yards. It opened up at 50 to be of no use. This means i need to get the $10 a box stuff if I intend to be serious. This means $100 a brick...or more.

2. You need a front rest and a rear rest. The congenial generosity of the rangemaster allowed me to use both of his. They were used and kind of beat up so i will need one of...scratch that...TWO of my own. One for the front and one for the back. The front one i like was made by Bald Eagle and runs around $250 or so I was told. Guessing about $50 for the rear one. $300 total.

so, though it was a lot of fun, I need to assess if my old rifle is adequate and may need to get a $1,000 Winchester 52, or something else. That is the only other one I am familiar with. I have heard of others but don't know their model numbers.

So, though it was fun, it may require an investment of $1500 to $2000 to get going in it. Even then, does that mean I will ever win one, considering all the fancy rigs I saw there today?

Decisions, decisions.

Any advice from the rest of the membership?
UPDATE: I will no longer ever compete in a rimfire benchrest match again. I saw in later match reports where people are allowed to win with borrowed rifles, gear, and ammo, whereas I have to buy and or fix everything i compete with using my own money, time, and effort.

Then someone shows up, gets to borrow a Winchester 52 with Unertl Target scope and Eley ammo and walks away with an award. This is not right or ethical, as far as I am concerned.

I use a restored Sears Ranger that i restored myself back to factory condition, could not afford Eley ammo, and mounted a Vortek scope on it that i also sighted in myself in my backyard, and shot Remington subsonic ammo, as Eley is about $20 a box.

Yet someone else shows up with nothing, gets loaned everything, and wins an award...TWICE.

They also happen to be related to the rangemaster (wink).

No thank you. I can not think of a more surefire way to drive away new competitors than this. Every competitor should have their own rifle, scope, and ammo, if they want to compete. Not borrow premium stuff with no personal skin in the game.

This sport left a bad taste in my mouth.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2019, 06:51 AM
Turbosam
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Lmao wow someone is butthurt cause someone borrowed equipment ? Holy crap yeah this sport isnt for you for sure. Go take up knitting or some other sport cause people borrow and share equipment all the time in big time shoots. So what if someone borrowed equipment? Cant believe someone is going to whine about that. Lmao this is sad door is behind you bye felicia
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2019, 07:58 AM
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Since it is obvious that I am the range master being referred to as would be evidenced by reading my earlier post of some time back in this thread, I feel compelled to make this reply and offer further explanation.

We are a relatively small club that faces the same issues that most shooting clubs face.....we have traditionally been composed of older member who are disappearing due to death, illness, etc. The problem is in attracting new shooters to the sport. Up until a few years ago, we were a sanctioned USBR club. For various reasons, we dropped sanctioning and adopted a less formal set of by laws....part of our goals was to make things less formal and concentrate on the camaraderie and in doing the best we could with what we had. The dilemma of course is how do you offer something for everyone? Your top competitive shooters want to attend highly competitive sanctioned matches, but those "new to the sport" type of shooters may want to shoot in less competitive matches. And then there are the folks like myself who want to be able to shoot their factory class guns. We have tried creating different match classes to attract different types of shooters, but the reality is that bench rest shooters make up a tiny fraction of the population and they in turn are interested in a diverse number of kinds of matches. The more matches you offer the greater the risk that any one match may not have enough shooters to justify the time it takes to run it.

Abigkidagain, contacted me before our first match of the year, and asked about attending a match. I went overboard to make him feel welcome and invited him to our match. I explained to him that the main goal of most of our members was not to worry about scores but to enjoy shooting the best we can with what we have to shoot, and to enjoy just visiting with each other. "Winners" get a paper certificate certifying they placed 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in each match. I offered him the use of a spare front and rear rest and even offered the use of some ammo. In short, I thought I was very courteous to him - a first time visitor. The relative of mine that he mentions was a cousin - also a first time visitor - who had no experience in rimfire bench rest shooting. To entice him to perhaps get involved, I invited him to the match. Since he had no equipment, I did loan him a spare gun, rest, and ammo (well within established club practices) to shoot with. But before my cousin left to go home after the match, I told him, in a good natured way and clearly enough for those standing around to hear, that he would have to provide his own equipment and ammo in the future. He is currently looking for a gun that he can use. From time to time, regular members do loan newcomers equipment to help them out and to get them into the sport...this is nothing new and makes perfect sense in my opinion. My son shoots with me using a gun that I initially loaned him but that now belongs to him.....though I keep it at my home for convenience and safe keeping. The specific match being referred to here is Factory Class and is open to any factory gun other than special order guns. So, yes, some guns are going to be more competitive than others. Each shooter has a choice...enjoy what you have or trade up to more competitive equipment. For the vast majority of our members, is not about winning or losing, it's about being there, sharing each other's company, and doing the best you can with what you have.

I'm very sorry that Abigkidagain was offended by what he perceived to be unfair practices. But as I have explained to him, I follow club bylaws that were voted on by the membership present at a previous meeting. I wish he had brought this up at a club match for discussion rather than here on the forum.

But again, all this tends to highlight the issues that our shooting clubs face today....how do you attract a limited number of available shooters with diverse interests.....and how do you make everyone happy?

I am not angry or upset with Abigkidagain...he has every right to his opinions and is welcome to come back and shoot with us and voice his complaints to the club membership - but in a way that follows due process. It is my wish that this matter be dropped at this point - we have enough contentious threads on RFC as it is to keep our moderators busy - so please do not use my post as an springboard to be critical of anyone mentioned here....I would appreciate that. My response here is solely prompted by the fact that it had become obvious that I was the one being referred to as being unfair, therefore I felt further comment was necessary.

Meanwhile, good shooting to everyone.

James
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2019, 04:23 PM
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linekin (post #2) gave some good advice. If looking for a gun, go to a shoot. Someone will always let you shot their gun and it may just be for sale.

Other equip is also availabe. Someone is selling or knows someone who is. There are those who cant shoot any longer and will sell what ever you need. Just have to kick the bushes.

Post a notice on the club board WANTED and you wil, find some equip. Good thing about buying this way is you always get to shoot before you buy.
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Abigkidagain View Post
UPDATE: I will no longer ever compete in a rimfire benchrest match again. I saw in later match reports where people are allowed to win with borrowed rifles, gear, and ammo, whereas I have to buy and or fix everything i compete with using my own money, time, and effort.

Then someone shows up, gets to borrow a Winchester 52 with Unertl Target scope and Eley ammo and walks away with an award. This is not right or ethical, as far as I am concerned.

I use a restored Sears Ranger that i restored myself back to factory condition, could not afford Eley ammo, and mounted a Vortek scope on it that i also sighted in myself in my backyard, and shot Remington subsonic ammo, as Eley is about $20 a box.

Yet someone else shows up with nothing, gets loaned everything, and wins an award...TWICE.

They also happen to be related to the rangemaster (wink).

No thank you. I can not think of a more surefire way to drive away new competitors than this. Every competitor should have their own rifle, scope, and ammo, if they want to compete. Not borrow premium stuff with no personal skin in the game.

This sport left a bad taste in my mouth.
So I have to ask, where do you feel you may have finished, had everyone used their own equipment.
it seems you where there only for the glory and bragging rights. and not to spend time with fellow shooters and have fun.
would you still be here complaining had everyone shot their own and you still finished at the bottom.
I believe so by just reading your post, you would probably blame not being able to shoot Eley as the reason or find something else.
I guess your jacket with all those patches only psyched yourself out, and maybe that is why you are so upset.

perhaps it is best you stay away, as I can just see down the road as you get better equipment, you going up to some new guy and putting him down for the factory Marlin or Savage rifle they have and putting a bad taste in their mouth, for you it is all about the glory and not the fun!

Lee
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:44 AM
Rick H.
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"They also happen to be related to the rangemaster (wink)."

Well James, I would like to abide by your request to just let this issue die but I can't do that. The reason I can't is the above quoted statement from Abigkidagain. You made no mention of it in your response and perhaps that was intentional, or perhaps not. Here is my take on it. Abigkidagain can make any statement he wishes about borrowed firearms to use in competition versus owned firearms, but the fact that he insinuates something wasn't on the up and up because you were related to a match winner really irritates me. So does this mean that your wife, brother, sister or other relative should be excluded from shooting in a match you are running, especially if they "borrow" your equipment? Abigkidagain infers that you had some hand in having your relative win the match not only by his wording, but by his little "wink" at the end of his comment. Sorry, but that would light me up!

I would like to know from Mr. " I was a Navy shooter and have a bunch of patches on my jacket to prove it", just how he would entice people into this sport, or any shooting sport, if they can't borrow equipment to try it and see if they like it. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have allowed new shooters, even experienced shooters, to try out my firearm(s) to let them decide if they like the discipline we are shooting in. I have done this in and out of competition. To disallow this courteous act would no doubt turn off many of those that show interest in any shooting sport..


Sorry James, but I had to put old Abigkidagain in his place. People can say whatever they want about me, but don't ever infer by word or deed that I have knowingly done something illegal, or underhanded to benefit myself or someone else without credible proof and not pure unadulterated speculation. I would think you feel the same.

Rick H.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:41 PM
52DH&R12

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They come and go

We had a man show up at one of our matches a couple years ago, had the marksmanship patches, pins.... He was using a Winchester 52B with a 20X Unertel scope, with some really old Eley. He had told us before the match, he was on a rifle team in high school, ROTC and also was on a military team. Well, after the first target he shot, I asked him how it went, he says, well that will be hard to beat. After the targets were scored and he found himself in last place, he packed up his gear and left without a word. Never returned.

When I first started RFBR, I tried using lower end equipment. Our matches only allow factory actions, with factory barrels, without tuners and must be shot off a bi-pod. Anything else is okay. I started with a H&R M-12 using Wolf ammo, I upgraded (I thought) to a Kimber 82G using Eley Team. I really was not getting anywhere, bought another H&R M-12, nothing really changed. One night a friend let me use his Winchester 52D, scores went from 238-240 to a 247. Man what a difference. Bought my own 52D started shooting Black Box Eley and discovered another big difference. If you want to try RFBR, start with something that at least has the potential to win. Taking a low end target rifle and plinking ammo to a BR match, is like taking momma's Oldsmobile to a Saturday Night Drag Race, things are not going to go as planned. If spending $$$ on ammo and equipment presents a problem, its best to find a hobby that is not as expensive. The BIG KID just realized that he was not ever going to do well with what he had and just needed an excuse to get out and drag Pump's name through the mud on his way out.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:52 PM
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I competed in a CMP sporter match at my club last week. In the middle of my seated slow round, my CZ Ultra Lux malfunctioned. Would not fire. One of the rangemasters lent me a spare 10/22, and a guy next to me on the line lent me two mags so I could finish the match. Lots of good sportsmanship there. These guys are as good as gold...they are in it for the fun. And you can only have fun if there are other shooters to compete with. My score for the day was abysmal. But I had a great time, and I'd do the same for another shooter in the same fix.

When I took the UL out of its stock, the problem was immediately apparent. One of the pins holding the trigger to the action had walked out. A couple of taps on a drift punch and the rifle was back to its old self.

Just my two cents

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  #25  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:29 PM
doodle2229
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Just last evening I took a new shooting aquaintance to his first ever rimfire benchrest match.loaned him my walther and rests and he easily topped my old remington and I.His smiles and enthusiasm were worth more than any high score.
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:46 PM
kseatm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52DH&R12 View Post
We had a man show up at one of our matches a couple years ago, had the marksmanship patches, pins.... He was using a Winchester 52B with a 20X Unertel scope, with some really old Eley. He had told us before the match, he was on a rifle team in high school, ROTC and also was on a military team. Well, after the first target he shot, I asked him how it went, he says, well that will be hard to beat. After the targets were scored and he found himself in last place, he packed up his gear and left without a word. Never returned.

When I first started RFBR, I tried using lower end equipment. Our matches only allow factory actions, with factory barrels, without tuners and must be shot off a bi-pod. Anything else is okay. I started with a H&R M-12 using Wolf ammo, I upgraded (I thought) to a Kimber 82G using Eley Team. I really was not getting anywhere, bought another H&R M-12, nothing really changed. One night a friend let me use his Winchester 52D, scores went from 238-240 to a 247. Man what a difference. Bought my own 52D started shooting Black Box Eley and discovered another big difference. If you want to try RFBR, start with something that at least has the potential to win. Taking a low end target rifle and plinking ammo to a BR match, is like taking momma's Oldsmobile to a Saturday Night Drag Race, things are not going to go as planned. If spending $$$ on ammo and equipment presents a problem, its best to find a hobby that is not as expensive. The BIG KID just realized that he was not ever going to do well with what he had and just needed an excuse to get out and drag Pump's name through the mud on his way out.
Jorge,
Show them your patches!

Kenny
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:52 PM
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I was going to leave this post alone but I can't stand by and watch one of the best men I know get accused of something underhanded. I met James on this site about 3 years ago. He invited me to come up and shoot with them. Had a great time even though I finished next to last with my CZ. People just don't understand how good these rifles are compared to your everyday rifles. Our club is not sanctioned. It's about having fun trying to get bragging rights against your friends. I am sorry I missed when this happened.
James is one of the best factory class rifle shooters I have seen. His integrity is high and would never do anything unethical. He has spent many hours working on making his factory rifles competitive with some of the best custom rifles made. He also does extensive ammo testing. It's a shame some people don't realize this sport is about more than just winning. I hope the disgruntled shooter comes back again. Borrowing or teaming up on the exact same equipment when there are multiple relays happens quite often. If the disgruntled shooter feels his equipment is making the difference he is welcome to use mine, but please don't accuse a stand up individual or wrong doing without a much better reason.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2019, 04:44 PM
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Ive been in quite a few shooting games for some decades.
And got myself revved and in over my head as quick as anybody.....
I suggest you go to as many matches as you can for a whole season, dance with who ya brung, ring it out thoroughly finding what ammo and lot it likes, meet a bunch of fine folks and learn.
At seasons end you will have a much better idea about EVERYTHING.
A wise man one told me,"what a guy/gal wants and what he/she thinks they want aint necessarily the same thing".
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:13 AM
Abigkidagain
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Lmao wow someone is butthurt cause someone borrowed equipment ? Holy crap yeah this sport isnt for you for sure. Go take up knitting or some other sport cause people borrow and share equipment all the time in big time shoots. So what if someone borrowed equipment? Cant believe someone is going to whine about that. Lmao this is sad door is behind you bye felicia
OK, to all you internet tough guys out there like this one, who like to make fools out of themselves with your replies like this one, let me educate you with some facts.

James and I are friends, and he is a gentleman of the highest order. He has my home phone number and I have his.
This issue is about OUR...I repeat...OUR club's policy, of which I will address at the next members meeting. If I prevail, fine. If not, fine. It is OUR club.

The insulting and attack mob mentality most of you displayed on this thread tells me I don't blame new shooters for not joining your ranks. No one should with the language and insults most of you have shown here.

James does not need any of you to defend him as he was not attacked in the first place. At the next match we attend, we will sit in on the benches and share a Dr. Pepper and no mention of this will be made by either of us. Why? Because your behaviors displayed here are not worthy of mentioning by Texas gentleman.

We may shoot, fuss, cuss, and enjoy a drink afterward, and none of us take or make it personal like some of you guys have here.
I am sure some of you will insist on continuing this behavior after this post, so knock yourselves out. James and I are moving on.

Dave

Last edited by Abigkidagain; 05-15-2019 at 04:17 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:57 AM
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OK, to all you internet tough guys out there like this one, who like to make fools out of themselves with your replies like this one, let me educate you with some facts.

James and I are friends, and he is a gentleman of the highest order. He has my home phone number and I have his.
This issue is about OUR...I repeat...OUR club's policy, of which I will address at the next members meeting. If I prevail, fine. If not, fine. It is OUR club.

The insulting and attack mob mentality most of you displayed on this thread tells me I don't blame new shooters for not joining your ranks. No one should with the language and insults most of you have shown here.

James does not need any of you to defend him as he was not attacked in the first place. At the next match we attend, we will sit in on the benches and share a Dr. Pepper and no mention of this will be made by either of us. Why? Because your behaviors displayed here are not worthy of mentioning by Texas gentleman.

We may shoot, fuss, cuss, and enjoy a drink afterward, and none of us take or make it personal like some of you guys have here.
I am sure some of you will insist on continuing this behavior after this post, so knock yourselves out. James and I are moving on.

Dave
This thread died 2-weeks ago, why bring it back up?

Lee
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