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Old 02-03-2019, 04:27 AM
Abigkidagain
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Shot my very first Rimfire Benchrest match yesterday



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OK, after shooting at home at 25 yards and being very impressed with my rifle and ammo, I signed up and shot my very first official IR50/50 match yesterday.

Some observations;

1. The ammo you use at 25 yards for fun has no bearing to what you will need to get any decent scores at 50 yards. Remington Sub-Sonic does wonders and is enjoyable for me at home at 25 yards. It opened up at 50 to be of no use. This means i need to get the $10 a box stuff if I intend to be serious. This means $100 a brick...or more.

2. You need a front rest and a rear rest. The congenial generosity of the rangemaster allowed me to use both of his. They were used and kind of beat up so i will need one of...scratch that...TWO of my own. One for the front and one for the back. The front one i like was made by Bald Eagle and runs around $250 or so I was told. Guessing about $50 for the rear one. $300 total.

so, though it was a lot of fun, I need to assess if my old rifle is adequate and may need to get a $1,000 Winchester 52, or something else. That is the only other one I am familiar with. I have heard of others but don't know their model numbers.

So, though it was fun, it may require an investment of $1500 to $2000 to get going in it. Even then, does that mean I will ever win one, considering all the fancy rigs I saw there today?

Decisions, decisions.

Any advice from the rest of the membership?
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2019, 05:24 AM
linekin
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Glad you shot you're 1st match! Depending on what you're up against the gear you mentioned may be fine. I've seen a few VA guys do very well, even excellent with some factory 52's & 40x's but you need a really good one. You also have to have exceptional skills to compete with them.
If you want to go the factory route I'd lean towards either the 40x or an Annie 54 actioned gun though. Its easier to get custom components, i.e. barrels, triggers, & stocks, etc.
Having said that, a better route may be to search for a used custom rifle. There's some pretty darn good one's out there for not a whole lot more $$.
I don't know much about BE rests but do know they will need a few modifications to refine them a bit. Not hard to do if you're handy, just wanted to throw that out there.
Attend more matches with what you have & talk with the shooters. Peace together some of the basics. Wind flags are a must before you go any further. Without them & an understanding of what wind does to these little bullets ( which few actually master). its an uphill battle. A good barrel & ammo helps!
Serious BR shooting isn't for everyone but those that do it I believe find it both rewarding & humbling. You'll meet some great people who'll do anything for you to help you beat them. Yes Them!
Read some of the "Sticky's" above for some more help too. They sum up quite a bit too.
Good Luck,
Keith

Last edited by linekin; 02-03-2019 at 08:53 AM. Reason: got the 2nd floor in HS but for only 1/2 day
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:30 AM
vlnbyr

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Good advice there. Shoot with these guys as often as you can, they will all help you get it together. The path will become more clear the more you shoot.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:08 AM
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Red face RFBR

I'd look around for some "Sporter" BR matches to try before investing that kind of money. I've had the opportunity to shoot a friend's ARA rifle & target. A custom gun with the ammo it preferred showed me I had a lot to learn before I could be competitive. But, if money isn't a problem go for it.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abigkidagain View Post
OK, after shooting at home at 25 yards and being very impressed with my rifle and ammo, I signed up and shot my very first official IR50/50 match yesterday.

Some observations;

1. The ammo you use at 25 yards for fun has no bearing to what you will need to get any decent scores at 50 yards. Remington Sub-Sonic does wonders and is enjoyable for me at home at 25 yards. It opened up at 50 to be of no use. This means i need to get the $10 a box stuff if I intend to be serious. This means $100 a brick...or more.

2. You need a front rest and a rear rest. The congenial generosity of the rangemaster allowed me to use both of his. They were used and kind of beat up so i will need one of...scratch that...TWO of my own. One for the front and one for the back. The front one i like was made by Bald Eagle and runs around $250 or so I was told. Guessing about $50 for the rear one. $300 total.

so, though it was a lot of fun, I need to assess if my old rifle is adequate and may need to get a $1,000 Winchester 52, or something else. That is the only other one I am familiar with. I have heard of others but don't know their model numbers.

So, though it was fun, it may require an investment of $1500 to $2000 to get going in it. Even then, does that mean I will ever win one, considering all the fancy rigs I saw there today?

Decisions, decisions.

Any advice from the rest of the membership?

I think I told you I paid about $160 for the one I was using. Here are a couple of "slingshot" versions....they have a narrower but longer footprint. They also make them in the triangular version.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Bal...st-Iron/BE1006
https://www.ebay.com/p/Be1005-Bald-E...num/1012250981


As you saw, my two were triangular; one cast iron and one aluminum. I can detect absolutely no difference between the iron or aluminum version in performance. Since the aluminum version is considerably lighter, I prefer it for my personal use. With a light recoiling gun like a heavy rimfire, I don't see the need for heavy cast iron. The rest you shot from was an old Cauldwell Rock BR rest. Not the fanciest, but I have shot some winning scores off it in the past including a USBR score of 243 in light factory sporter class. You can buy much fancier and costlier rests, but as you saw yesterday, with some minor mods the Bald Eagle rests can do very well. Should you decide to purchase something like the Bald Eagle....and there are others....I will be glad to help any way I can in modifications needed.



If I understood you correctly, your primary interest at this time is shooting factory guns. I agree that to be competitive, a good shooting Winchester 52, Remington 40X, Kimber 82G, Anschutz, or some such typically is required. And while they do cost more, the money invested doesn't disappear...if purchased wisely and taken care of, the investment is returned when the gun is sold. But that much investment in a gun is not required to have fun and enjoy shooting. And as you saw, our club does offer a separate factory class from the Unlimited class, as do many other clubs. Keeps us factory boys from having to compete against the fancier stuff......
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:55 PM
Thomasconnor
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My 2 cents:

1) I heartily recommend a used proven custom rifle unless you want to chase your tail.

2) Jow Cowan just announced a batch of rests available. I believe he said the next batch will cost more. Unlike the Bald Buzzards, Joe's are built in America by Americans, for a good cause...Tom
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomasconnor View Post
My 2 cents:

1) I heartily recommend a used proven custom rifle unless you want to chase your tail.

2) Jow Cowan just announced a batch of rests available. I believe he said the next batch will cost more. Unlike the Bald Buzzards, Joe's are built in America by Americans, for a good cause...Tom

My recommendations were based upon a discussion he and I had at the match yesterday, where, assuming I didn't misunderstand, he indicated that his desire at this point was to stick with factory guns for the time being. My mention of the Bald Eagle was based upon his saying (again if I didn't misunderstand) that he wished to limit his expenditures on rest equipment and that he was able to examine the ones I use. He's just getting into this.



If he knows he is in this for the long hall and so desires then yes, he could spend more on the rest. His call of course as to how he goes about this......
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:57 AM
Thomasconnor
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James you're recommendations are always great.

I just wanted to plug Cowan rests since they're fine rests for a good cause. I still haven't forgotten Bald Buzzard moving production from PA to an Asian sweat shop...peace...Tom
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Old 02-04-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomasconnor View Post
James you're recommendations are always great.

I just wanted to plug Cowan rests since they're fine rests for a good cause. I still haven't forgotten Bald Buzzard moving production from PA to an Asian sweat shop...peace...Tom

Tom,



I always appreciate your comments and recommendations.....it was just that I thought I had a pretty good idea of what he was after, if I understood the conversation we had at the match. But I'm famous for hearing things wrong.


I wondered about who was making the Bald Eagle rests and was not aware production had been moved. Kinda sad that this country has allowed so much manufacturing to be farmed out overseas. Where would we have been at the beginning of WWII if we had not had so much in the way of manufacturing facilities? I have one of the older cast iron Bald Eagles and frankly, it's a nice little rest doing everything I ask. A few years later I picked up an aluminum one and right off the bat noticed that there were some indications of sloppiness in production. For example, the threads cut in the mariner's wheel had serious burrs on the edges, and I had to smooth those off to get the thing to turn smoothly. I also noticed that the wheel is solid aluminum that runs on the steel threads of the central shaft......not a great idea. My older one is steel on steel. As I think I told the OP, I wasn't necessarily recommending the Bald Eagle, but that it was a decent rest at a beginner's price in my experience.



Do you know what the Cowan rests are selling for?



James
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:02 PM
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cowan rest

I think around 250.00
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abigkidagain View Post
OK, after shooting at home at 25 yards and being very impressed with my rifle and ammo, I signed up and shot my very first official IR50/50 match yesterday.

Some observations;

1. The ammo you use at 25 yards for fun has no bearing to what you will need to get any decent scores at 50 yards. Remington Sub-Sonic does wonders and is enjoyable for me at home at 25 yards. It opened up at 50 to be of no use. This means i need to get the $10 a box stuff if I intend to be serious. This means $100 a brick...or more.

2. You need a front rest and a rear rest. The congenial generosity of the rangemaster allowed me to use both of his. They were used and kind of beat up so i will need one of...scratch that...TWO of my own. One for the front and one for the back. The front one i like was made by Bald Eagle and runs around $250 or so I was told. Guessing about $50 for the rear one. $300 total.

so, though it was a lot of fun, I need to assess if my old rifle is adequate and may need to get a $1,000 Winchester 52, or something else. That is the only other one I am familiar with. I have heard of others but don't know their model numbers.

So, though it was fun, it may require an investment of $1500 to $2000 to get going in it. Even then, does that mean I will ever win one, considering all the fancy rigs I saw there today?

Decisions, decisions.

Any advice from the rest of the membership?
Congrats on just going and shooting in a match. So many are afraid they'll do badly or get laughed at and don't even try shooting one of these. Hope you enjoyed yourself as it can be a lot of fun.

Sounds like you shot with James, so you're in good hands as to advice.

The only thing I'd say is to enjoy yourself. There's a huge difference between shooting for fun and shooting in a formal sanctioned BR match. What's "pretty good" in one instance may be "pretty bad" in the other. But again, it depends on who you're shooting with to a certain degree. Hence the advice Keith gave.

Shoot a few more matches, see what works and think hard about where you want to end up with this. Having a goal will save you a lot of money and a lot of chasing your tail. If you want to shoot for just fun, you can get by with a lot of different types of rests, rifles and ammo. If you want to be competitive you may need to open your checkbook a bit. To travel and shoot in big matches, it will pretty much require you to spend even more.

Tom gave some great advice when he recommended buying a good used custom rifle if you think you want to really get into this. And there are a lot out there so if that appeals to you, look around, ask questions and see what you might find. Would advise only buy a used custom if it has a history of performance.

As to rests, you've probably seen a few already. Ask if you can try a few to see what you like and what might work best for you. Have no experience with the Bald Eagle other than shooting off of one once for fun. Have owned a Cowan, and liked it for what it was. Even a simple Caldwell Rock BR front can be made into something quite nice if you stick a Greenlaw top on it. A good rear bag is a must, but it should fit your gun for best results. Have more experience with the Randolph and SEB front rests. Either is top of the line, along with the JJ Industries front. Rear bags are pretty easy to find as most use either Edgewood or Protecktor. If you decide to get into the one piece rest game, you'll find Pappas, PQP, Arnold, Randolph, Pierce etc. All are good, some people like certain rests for different reasons. The top you choose is really important in using one of these. Same as with a two piece, the top can make or break your scores. Just pay attention to the match rules where you shoot to ensure you are using something that is legal.

As to rifles to use, use what you want. But do keep in mind where you might go with this and plan accordingly. Saves a lot of time and money. Nothing wrong with a factory rifle. I've shot in huge matches with Annies, Win 52's, Rem 40x's, Kimber 82G's. And I've done pretty darn well with all of them. But it was just a journey for me. Like you, wanted to try this to see what it was. Then dipped my toes in further and went to a few more matches. As time went on, ended up with a custom rifle, custom rest and a lot of different lots of ammo. Fun stuff, but I went down a lot of back streets trying to find my way. That's why I recommend that you think it through before spending too much money on anything. Go shoot a few more matches and you'll get a better handle on what you want from this.

Ammo...this is the hole that the money sinks into! Get the good stuff, test lot numbers and see which works best for your gun.

Most of all, go have fun. Enjoy this for what it is.

JMO

Kenny

Last edited by kseatm; 02-05-2019 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kseatm View Post
Congrats on just going and shooting in a match. So many are afraid they'll do badly or get laughed at and don't even try shooting one of these. Hope you enjoyed yourself as it can be a lot of fun.

Sounds like you shot with James, so you're in good hands as to advice.

The only thing I'd say is to enjoy yourself. There's a huge difference between shooting for fun and shooting in a formal sanctioned BR match. What's "pretty good" in one instance may be "pretty bad" in the other. But again, it depends on who you're shooting with to a certain degree. Hence the advice Keith gave.

Shoot a few more matches, see what works and think hard about where you want to end up with this. Having a goal will save you a lot of money and a lot of chasing your tail. If you want to shoot for just fun, you can get by with a lot of different types of rests, rifles and ammo. If you want to be competitive you may need to open your checkbook a bit. To travel and shoot in big matches, it will pretty much require you to spend even more.

Tom gave some great advice when he recommended buying a good used custom rifle if you think you want to really get into this. And there are a lot out there so if that appeals to you, look around, ask questions and see what you might find. Would advise only buy a used custom if it has a history of performance.

As to rests, you've probably seen a few already. Ask if you can try a few to see what you like and what might work best for you. Have no experience with the Bald Eagle other than shooting off of one once for fun. Have owned a Cowan, and liked it for what it was. Even a simple Caldwell Rock BR front can be made into something quite nice if you stick a Greenlaw top on it. A good rear bag is a must, but it should fit your gun for best results. Have more experience with the Randolph and SEB front rests. Either is top of the line, along with the JJ Industries front. Rear bags are pretty easy to find as most use either Edgewood or Protecktor. If you decide to get into the one piece rest game, you'll find Pappas, PQP, Arnold, Randolph, Pierce etc. All are good, some people like certain rests for different reasons. The top you choose is really important in using one of these. Same as with a two piece, the top can make or break your scores. Just pay attention to the match rules where you shoot to ensure you are using something that is legal.

As to rifles to use, use what you want. But do keep in mind where you might go with this and plan accordingly. Saves a lot of time and money. Nothing wrong with a factory rifle. I've shot in huge matches with Annies, Win 52's, Rem 40x's, Kimber 82G's. And I've done pretty darn well with all of them. But it was just a journey for me. Like you, wanted to try this to see what it was. Then dipped my toes in further and went to a few more matches. As time went on, ended up with a custom rifle, custom rest and a lot of different lots of ammo. Fun stuff, but I went down a lot of back streets trying to find my way. That's why I recommend that you think it through before spending too much money on anything. Go shoot a few more matches and you'll get a better handle on what you want from this.

Ammo...this is the hole that the money sinks into! Get the good stuff, test lot numbers and see which works best for your gun.

Most of all, go have fun. Enjoy this for what it is.

JMO

Kenny

Great advice Kenny, as was that given by Tom.



After visiting with him, I did not steer him towards a custom guns and top of the line rests, due to my understanding that he wished to stick with the factory guns and not put all his money into rest equipment....at least for the time being. As you say, my emphasis was on having fun, and I did explain that the the real expense was the ammo. I advised him that he might consider trying something like Center-X if he didn't want to invest in the top of the line ammo, but to only buy quantities after lot testing in his gun. I had a cousin attending the match for his first time, so did not get to spend as much time with the OP as I wanted - he has not mentioned his name on here, so I will not. But he has assured us he will be back.....looking forward to seeing him again. Nice guy...


Sometimes it's really hard to advise folks at this stage in the game what's best to do.....heck, I'm not always sure what I want to do at times.

Last edited by pump .22s; 02-05-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:10 AM
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Last year was my first in casual club competition. I used my CZ 455 in sporter and utimate heavyweight classes. I bought a bald eagle slingshot with a windage top. Removed the cable drive and reversed the top.

I finished last in heavyweight and worked my way up to mid to upper 1/3 in sporter. I took inventory of the guns that did well.

For this year I sold the CZ. Bought a Kidd 10/22 and a bedded anschutz stock with tang slot. Also bought a Win 52D. Bedded 52D stock and had the trigger modded to 5oz. Weaver 36x on both guns.

Love the Kidd. Don’t expect to finish last.

The Win52 ,because of the stock shape , is a little harder to be consistent with. It shoots nice groups. The bull on this class is about a 1/4” or a 22 cal hole. There is a lot of skill to score well in this class. Just a little harder to move around to the 25 targets. Again I don’t expect to finish last.

Experience does count. And I have very little. These guys have years and thousands of rounds on me. If I can just improve my scores over time Im happy.

I bought almost all of this stuff off the classified. All really good people to deal with.

I think just seeing what everybody has and how well they do with the guns they have is a good first step. Dont expect a rifle to shoot above it pay grade if an experienced shooter cant make it happen.

Thats my 2 cents. But I really dont have much experience in the game. I dont think I would loose much money if I resold the items I purchased. You can do pretty well at $1000 to $1200 for a accurate gun. I didnt worry about finishing last to much. I should do a little better this year. I think my new used guns are accurate enough to do far better that last.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:17 AM
Abigkidagain
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I would like to thank everyone for their courtesy and advice.
I am no stranger to competition and love it. Just new to Rimfire Benchrest.
I already know if my shot does not go into the X ring, it is my fault and no one else's.
Though I did like to psych some shooters out with my shooting jacket adorned with matches from years ago, in the Navy pistol bullseye matches I was in.

That being said, the barrel is the soul of the rifle.
This will be my philosophy going into these matches.
With high quality ammo it should do OK.
Mr. Pope made these precision barrels back in the 30's, so I think if I do my part with good ammo, I may surprise a few.

Now, If I may take a lighthearted poke at you guys of a second.....

I have a Bubba'd up Sears Ranger I got at a gun show for $200 and restored to factory original finally.
Bubba sure liked putting all kinds of odd parts in it that made it just barely function.
Now that she is restored, she has an old school beauty to her that I love, especially the forward barrel band.
I do not want to turn her into a "shooting machine" like some people advocate and have.

Therefore I will compete with her using her bipod, and putting my shoulder to her rear stock as a grab the sling swivel with my non-firing hand. This is the exact same position I use in the field. My scores may not be valid if I do this, but as long as I at least have a record of them, I am good with being invalid.
But...with a 4x4 and some steel shot, I may be able to make a rear rest and eliminate putting my hand on the rear swivel, therefore making my scores a little more "valid"...

This will ensure maximum fun for me, and who knows, I might "get lucky" one day with a good score.

Fun and friends is the intent of the matches, and fun and friends will be had.

Dave

PS...Being an inventor with one US Patent to my name already, I am not above learning the official rules and building my own rests. hey, it will at least keep me off the streets at night.
James had a pretty good and effective homemade setup for his rear rest that was pretty "inventive" in his own right.

Right now I have a financial goal to achieve of money in the bank, so spending money on gear or a new rifle is not in the budget. Precision ammo is another story.

You guys are awesome, and thank you all for sharing your wisdom.

Last edited by Abigkidagain; 02-07-2019 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:48 PM
Abigkidagain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc thornton View Post
I have an original Bald Eagle triangle front rest with windage top
and leather/cordura top bag and a original Bald Eagle heavy leather
and cordura rear bag. An excellent solid set up and I won a number
of matches shooting rimfire and centerfire from it. The real deal.

It was bought around 15 years (?) ago at Kelbly's Super Shoot
from Sinclair International IIRC.

I no longer have a need for it and I was thinking about taking it
back out to Kelbly's this Spring to the Super Shoot and seeing if
anyone was interested in it. I don't want to go through the hassle
of trying to ship it somewhere. I can be at Kelbly's in 15 minutes.

Is there a market for the older USA made Bald Eagle stuff?
Sounds like there are a lot more good quality rests out there
these days than when I bought mine this might hurt my
re-sale chances.
I have no idea about any of this, as I shot my first match less than a couple weeks ago.
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