Bench rest matches for old .22 rifles - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-19-2018, 10:37 PM
Ray1946
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2009
Location: 
Ohio
Posts: 
189
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Bench rest matches for old .22 rifles



Log in to see fewer ads
I hope I don't sound stupid or out of place, but I was just wondering if there is a competition for Vintage .22 rifles from years gone by. I have a few old Mossbergs from long ago and several friends have Remingtons, Winchesters and you name it that really don't fall into modern target rifle classifications.

We all enjoy shooting our oldies at 25 yds mostly, but a few guys go for 50 yds. I really enjoy this and hope to find a modern classification that is set up for old rifles.
Any help would be greatly appreciated....................
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-20-2018, 06:39 AM
vlnbyr

Join Date: 
Mar 2010
Location: 
Central Ohio
Posts: 
1,235
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Competition with these old rifles always do best at the club level or the mail-in online matches like they have here at RFC. Efforts at the national level never work. Pick a target and have a good time.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:18 AM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
11,830
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Our club's 50 yard bench rest matches includes a factory class which attracts a lot of the older target type rimfiire rifles such as the Winchester 52, Remington 40X, Anschutz 54, Kimber 82G, etc. We currently shoot the IR 50/50 target. As vinbyr mentioned, this type of shooting is probably best done at the club level, or you could just form your own shooting group. Shooting the old factory heavy guns is a lot of fun in my own personal experience, and my gun collecting seems to have gravitated in that direction. Some of these old guns can still shoot very well.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:13 AM
52DH&R12

Join Date: 
Jul 2011
Location: 
Pembroke Va.
Posts: 
2,112
TPC Rating: 
100% (23)
Start your own, if you have a range or some private property available. Pick a target, set a few guidelines and your in business. Friends of mine run a weekly match May - Oct, we have a good turnout each week, 12-18 shooters. We shoot only factory actions and barrels, using only bi-pods and rear bags, ( front sandbags are allowed, but seldom used ) Shoot for fun or put a few $$ in the pot. The main thing is to keep it fun and safe.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:38 AM
tommyt654

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Posts: 
1,162
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
It's been talked about hashed and rehashed several times for doing it at the larger operated venues such as A.R.A. ,IR50/50,But will never happen,can you imagine the loss of being beaten by a factory rifle after you have just spent thousands on custom actioned,high dollar scoped rifles only to be beaten by a $500-1000 rifle during a match

Allowing a separate factory class to form and be designated by merely having a gentlemans agreement as to what would constitute a factory rifle is the soul reason folks went to custom rifles in the 1st place as most factory rifles began to have custom triggers and bedding,then others began blueing custom barrels to simulate factory barrels,and other things to accurize their factory rfles in attempts to squash the competition.

This is why Unlimited Class has become so popular,You can shoot anything you want in a rimfire class as long as you utilize the same mass produced ammunition

Bill Casey (Chickenfoot) used to have a factory match a few yrs ago and had good turnouts usually before a sanctioned match,but those went away sadly.Hopefully he'll re-introduce them in an effort to bring in more shooters as many others should and I have always been in favor of having them shoot alongside the custom rifles on the same targets with a simple "F" designation beside them to show just what they are capable of doing in the right hands,

But then you'll always have the guy or gal who wants to push the boundaries to get a win and thats why it has never succeeded.It relies on honesty and integrity in the match
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:35 PM
Gizmo60's Avatar
Gizmo60

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
Ireland - Across the big pond as they say
Posts: 
668
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post
..........Shooting the old factory heavy guns is a lot of fun in my own personal experience, and my gun collecting seems to have gravitated in that direction. Some of these old guns can still shoot very well.
I agree with Pump, 52DH&R12 & Tommyt654, these old factory rifles shoot great and its a pity most are restricted to one Class (Unlimited <15lbs) due to weight restrictions.

My factory 1981 (not that old compared to some being used) 54/1809 with scope weighs in about 14+ pounds is limited to one class only. As is with no tuner or alterations to barrel, she will shoot mid 240's all day long from basic sandbags front & rear.

I Just shoot for fun and to beat my last score, it's nice to shoot against other similar older factory rifles. Its a pain in rear end at times when up against 2/3+K custom rifles sitting on 1/2k custom front rests/rear bags; then again some of these rigs are just about achieving the same results, lots of other are not................

At end of day, forget the bling on the next bench, enjoy your sport.......

Giz
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:01 PM
David Valdina
US Marines Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2004
Location: 
Barefoot Bay, Florida and Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 
2,809
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Go to the 50 yard iron sight bench matches here on RFC.

Go to the 50 yard iron sight bench matches here on RFC. You will note that a lot, if not the majority, are shot with vintage rifles. Join us. If keeping score is an issue, then keep score yourself, including only the scores shot by the old rifles. By the way, shot mostly by old men. It is common to have the age of the rifle and the age of the shooter about the same.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:19 PM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
11,830
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
At the club level, some of the old factory guns can hold their own. Our club shoots mainly two events, Factory and Unlimited. Shooting a 52E in factory class this year, I finished three points behind the top Unlimited class shooter for the total aggregate score of targets shot for the year....and bested him by 29Xs on the total X count. Of course, at the top matches, the difference is going to be more pronounced.

The factory guns seem to lack the glamour of the unlimited guns, but I think folks tend to under appreciate how well some of the factory guns can shoot. And yes, any class other than unlimited is going to be dependent to a certain degree on the honesty and integrity of the shooter. But on the other hand, not everyone shooting unlimited has equal opportunity to get the best ammo. One thing the factory class has going for it....it typically is not as expensive in terms of the gun. And I do find great satisfaction in making an old factory gun shoot well.

Last edited by pump .22s; 11-20-2018 at 08:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-21-2018, 06:06 AM
kseatm
US Air Force Veteran

Join Date: 
Nov 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Virginia
Posts: 
6,830
TPC Rating: 
100% (50)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1946 View Post
I hope I don't sound stupid or out of place, but I was just wondering if there is a competition for Vintage .22 rifles from years gone by. I have a few old Mossbergs from long ago and several friends have Remingtons, Winchesters and you name it that really don't fall into modern target rifle classifications.

We all enjoy shooting our oldies at 25 yds mostly, but a few guys go for 50 yds. I really enjoy this and hope to find a modern classification that is set up for old rifles.
Any help would be greatly appreciated....................
To try and answer your question, I don't know of any national organizations that hold formal benchrest matches for vintage 22 rifles.

Would agree these guns are a lot of fun and can do pretty well. A blast to shoot and it's neat to see how some of these perform. But to find a formal match that allows these, you'd be best served looking locally or as George mentioned, set something up amongst you and your friends.

Don't really want to get into the debate that usually follows the factory vs custom question. But, will say of the sanctioned BR matches I've shot, you can do well with certain factory guns... at the club level. Once in awhile ammo/gun/shooter comes together and someone does extremely well in a State/Regional/National match. Saw one of the bi pod posse finish 5th in an indoor National IR match. Shooting a 40x, no tuner, off a bipod. But, that's a rare thing at the big matches. Keep in mind, in those, you're shooting against a whole different breed of shooter. And they ain't shooting Marlins! And they're not shooting Wolf MT.

I've shot factory guns in some pretty big matches. Did well most times. But, knew I was outgunned from the start. Funny story...was sitting at the Va Regional Outdoor IR 50 championship a couple of summers ago. Called a friend while sitting at the bench. On my left sat Fred Sears. On my right was Chuck Morrell. One was the current points leader in ARA. The other was leading the PSL Championship. They were trying to decide which ammo to take to St Louis for the big final matches. And there I sat shooting a $400 Kimber 82G! They weren't shooting a Kimber...But you know what, I finished 4th overall in meters that day. Think I finished 8th in an Indoor National a few years ago with either that gun or my Win 52.

That being said, I'd be plain stupid to expect to shoot the scores I've been lucky enough to shoot over the past year with any of the factory guns I've owned. Once in awhile, yes. Target after target...no way. You pay for those final dots and x's. And you pay a lot. The gun, the ammo, the support equipment, the testing, the travel, the practice and the experience. It costs money and it costs time. And you're still at the mercy of a person you will never meet that makes those bullets!

My advice is to take what you have and go to a match. But, don't think you're going to out "Annie Oakley" the field and win. Not a big match. Maybe once in awhile you'll do real well, but things even out and you come back to what the gun is capable of. At the club level you have more of a chance. Tommy mentioned the stigma of someone using a custom rifle and losing to a $500 factory rifle. Never shot with Tommy, but never saw anyone get butt hurt over that. Not at any match I've personally been to. Have only received congratulations from people I happened to finish ahead of in a match. So go, shoot and enjoy the gun you have and the experience of shooting it in a formal match. You'll have a blast.

If you can't find a match, get together with some friends and set something up. Throw a few dollars on the table to make it interesting if you want.

Good luck

Kenny

Last edited by kseatm; 11-21-2018 at 06:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-21-2018, 06:33 AM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
11,830
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
As usual, Kenny does a great job of putting it all together in his post. With luck and a little trial and error, you can find an unusually good factory gun that will do very well at the local club level. But it is unreasonable to expect to do well against the folks that spend the money on their custom equipment....if that was the case, I suspect a lot of them would just be looking for a good factory gun. There is just no way the average factory gun can be expected to have the build quality of the average custom smithed gun.

I think it is very important to be realistic in deciding what will make you happy and then pursue those goals. Happiness is a frame of mind to a large extent, and it is not necessarily always based on having the latest and greatest.

Kenny, that is an exceptional 82G you were shooting - "Miss Chunky" or something like that if I recall......do you still have it?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-21-2018, 07:53 AM
Gizmo60's Avatar
Gizmo60

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
Ireland - Across the big pond as they say
Posts: 
668
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pump .22s View Post
.......... I think it is very important to be realistic in deciding what will make you happy and then pursue those goals. Happiness is a frame of mind to a large extent, and it is not necessarily always based on having the latest and greatest........
Well said Pump.

Happiness does greatly increase though when you can get an old unaltered factory rifle to shoot tens & x's regular.

Giz
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-21-2018, 08:03 AM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
11,830
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo60 View Post
Well said Pump.

Happiness does greatly increase though when you can get an old unaltered factory rifle to shoot tens & x's regular.

Giz

I will not even attempt to disagree in any way with that.....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:53 AM
vlnbyr

Join Date: 
Mar 2010
Location: 
Central Ohio
Posts: 
1,235
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
I guess it's a matter of choice. Would you rather take your custom to a national event shoot a 245 and suffer a severe beat-down....or take your 52 to your local club shoot your 245 and win against 6 other old farts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:05 PM
kseatm
US Air Force Veteran

Join Date: 
Nov 2008
Location: 
Northwestern Virginia
Posts: 
6,830
TPC Rating: 
100% (50)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
I guess it's a matter of choice. Would you rather take your custom to a national event shoot a 245 and suffer a severe beat-down....or take your 52 to your local club shoot your 245 and win against 6 other old farts.
If you're one of the "old farts" I'd choose B!

Actually, you left off option C. Take your 52 to the local club shoot and shoot against the field that may include the likes of Tim Miller, Tony Harper, Tom Wilkinson, Chuck Morrell, Jason Frymier, George Donovan, Glen Spencer, Todd Wooten,etc, etc, etc! And lets not forget you John Prince!

Neat that people like that shoot in matches that I go to. Did it bother me to shoot factory guns against these guys? Not in the least. But, my expectations were tempered by what I was using. Now, with the gun I have, my expectations are tempered by my own abilities, or lack thereof...

To the original poster, just go shoot if there are any matches near you. You'll enjoy yourself, meet some great people and get to shoot guns. What could be better than that?

Kenny
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-22-2018, 08:10 AM
tommyt654

Join Date: 
Sep 2011
Posts: 
1,162
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Kenny,I think you might have missed my point in that it is possible to win without a custom built specific rifle.Regarding anyone getting butt-hurt I highly doubt anyone has ever.In fact like yourself most I know have said the exact same things they said to you to myself.

...but then then went looking to see what ammo I was using

In 1 particular case shown in the link below Grant Toman took 1st place with an Anshutz he had and I took 4th with my Suhl,both factory guns at the time.Was it repeatable,possibly,But we were there and it did happen.I agree whole heartedly a custom rifle will be far more accurate and give better scores overall in the long run.

https://www.americanrimfire.com/inde...h_results/3123


But in the end it really is about the ammo and barrel you have and how they interact together along with a combination of skills learned thru shooting your choice of rifle or at least that is what I have found.

Main thing is to have fun with it always.If it begins to become less fun and more of a money factor regarding the ammo search and right combination of rifle builder and barrel you aren't really using a skill set you are merely tossing money at a rabbit hole hoping you get the right combination to win.It can become rather expensive to do that

It is a major factor in why so many quit after a few seasons.They get frustrated they cannot win or compete because of the cost. I don't care either way as I shoot only against myself trying different combinations to see what works best in every match.Sometimes I do well others not so much.The skill level is there,but the money part isn't so I get what I paid for in the end.

It is and has been a money game for quite a while now.The big winners I would venture to say put $10K in ammo a yr on the low end and probably $4-6k in their rifles,another $1-2k in a rest and whatevers.In the end they only shoot about 4-600 points higher than a good shooting factory rifle is capable of doing consistently.

Is that worth the money,apparently to many it is,but at what time does it really become just money and less skill? JMHO
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x