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Old 04-09-2020, 12:04 PM
jaia
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22lr Cartridge Defects and Accuracy



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Yep, slow afternoon at work with time to kill while maintaining social distancing.



Today's topic up for discussion.....

Does "find the brand y'er rifle likes" apply, when the cartridges show visible defects?
Enquiring minds want to know...do you think any rifle can make low quality ammo produce consistent trajectories?


Last edited by jaia; 04-09-2020 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:15 PM
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Logically, it cannot. Might be dangerous out to 100, but beyond that, wasted effort. Of course many shooters don't have stringent accuracy requirements.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:21 PM
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Consistent, no. You might be able to put them all on paper at 100 yards but it's not going to be a 1" group. I guess you could get extremely lucky and change your poa every shot and have them all end up in the same spot..... Of course there is no way to know where to change your poa to.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:53 PM
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I think that's why you should shoot a couple boxes to get a good average while testing. There will always be loose bullets, dented cases, powder inconsistencies. Rimfire ammo is nowhere near perfect. Just save the damaged stuff for fun plinking and not accuracy shooting.

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Old 04-09-2020, 12:58 PM
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Well, we could just count the good shots in the group and throw the wide ones out.
Yep, every day, all day long......
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:36 PM
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Shoot a box and pick out the good groups? What was the question again?
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Old 04-09-2020, 04:41 PM
jaia
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Aha, the old "ignore the flyers" routine and only show the few decent results obtained.

Crank, tell me if I'm wrong, isn't that called "cherry picking".

But that would mean you have to find the brand y'er rifle likes,
as long as it ain't cr*ppy ammo. Say it ain't so!

That's gonna put a crimp in the believability of claims of "all day long" with bulk ammo, ain't it?
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick7274 View Post
Consistent, no. You might be able to put them all on paper at 100 yards but it's not going to be a 1" group. I guess you could get extremely lucky and change your poa every shot and have them all end up in the same spot..... Of course there is no way to know where to change your poa to.

Of course, a lot of old geezers like me keep our .22LR useage limited to 100 yards or less anyway. Past that, I seem to rely on my centerfires rather than the rimfires. Preferably under 50 yards, even. I grew up hunting the woody, brushy draws of North Central Missouri, where the squirrels and rabbits were impossible to see out past 50 yards, and more likely, 35 yards, so MOA is pretty moot for hunters in areas like that. I live in Kentucky now, and the ranges are usually shorter than my Missouri days. Not all of us worry about 100 yards at all, with our rimfires.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:54 PM
jaia
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100 yards? Even high end rimfire ammo has problems at 100 yards.
No, we are talking about 50 yards for this discussion. Not extended range rimfire.
Do you think that "find the brand" will apply when you can see those defects?
Or do you think we need to find well made cartridges and consistent mv's to do the job?
When you can see the problems, is it worth even giving them a try?
Can the rifle make those visibly messed up cartridges produce consistent trajectories?

Consistently bad doesn't apply.

Last edited by jaia; 04-09-2020 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 04-11-2020, 12:15 PM
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To a certain extent, yes it does matter. There are other factors that affect accuracy: bullet shape and diameter, powder burn rate and amount, and priming are just a few. If all that is perfect, will ammo defects cause accuracy to less than optimal? Yes, of course. At the same time, even if the ammo is in perfect condition, if that particular ammo's bullet shape just doesn't agree with a particular rifle, then accuracy will also suffer just as much.
IMO by trying different ammo a person is attempting to find the combination of multiple factors that work best for their firearm and purpose. I've shot enough cheap ammo over time that I've found several types that work extremely well for certain things without hurting the wallet. Punch well out of their weight class, so to speak. I've also shot some relatively high cost, perfect looking ammo that got relegated to use on cans it was so bad.
If I'm going to plink cans in the backyard, am I going to use Center X? No, I'm not that rich. I am going to use one of a few bulk types that work good for that for me. I want to get a couple of squirrels for the pot. Am I going to use Center X or the cheapest stuff I can find? No, I'll use something with accuracy I can trust with a bullet that performs the task well along with being priced reasonably in case I decide to do a little impromptu range session. Am I going to use bulk stuff when I'm trying to put holes as close together as I can when the target is way out there? No, I'm going to use the ammo that I've tested to do just that, regardless of what it costs.
Tl;Dr It all depends on purpose and expectations.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll head out back and burn a little powder!
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Old 04-11-2020, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Aha, the old "ignore the flyers" routine and only show the few decent results obtained.

Crank, tell me if I'm wrong, isn't that called "cherry picking".

But that would mean you have to find the brand y'er rifle likes,
as long as it ain't cr*ppy ammo. Say it ain't so!

That's gonna put a crimp in the believability of claims of "all day long" with bulk ammo, ain't it?

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Old 04-11-2020, 12:33 PM
jaia
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I've missed you JN.

Haven't seen the keyboard shootist in a long while.



JPlinker, so if someone claims their rifle likes Winchester M22 and is producing sub moa at 50 yards "all day long"
just how willing are you to believe those claims, after opening up a carton and seeing just how poorly the cartridges were made?
1) Very likely. 2) It's possible, maybe. 3) Not happening, no how, no way. .

Is it brand, or cartridge quality, that a rifle likes?
That's the question.


I tried some more Winchester 22lr this morning. PowerPoints and 42 Max.
Dents, dings, scratches, poorly seated bullets, bullet material compressed down over the crimp.
How anyone could claim consistent accuracy with those cartridges is beyond belief.




Yuck!

Brand is not what a rifle "likes", not from what I've experienced.
Cartridge quality is what determines results.
I can't force my rifles to magically compensate for lousy ammo, no matter whose name is on the label.

Last edited by jaia; 04-11-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 04-11-2020, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jaia View Post
100 yards? Even high end rimfire ammo has problems at 100 yards.
No, we are talking about 50 yards for this discussion. Not extended range rimfire.
Do you think that "find the brand" will apply when you can see those defects?
Or do you think we need to find well made cartridges and consistent mv's to do the job?
When you can see the problems, is it worth even giving them a try?
Can the rifle make those visibly messed up cartridges produce consistent trajectories?

Consistently bad doesn't apply.
What about all the stuff you can't see, such as powder charge and oversized/undersize knurling??
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2020, 01:09 PM
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I believe I saw a video where someone intentionally used a knife to deform the fronts of 22lr bullets, and tested their accuracy. From what I remember, it didn't make much difference.
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Old 04-11-2020, 01:10 PM
jaia
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CSH, if the outside looks like cr*p, do you really think they care about what's inside?
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